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-   -   Towing? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/towing-59119.html)

TerrorJ2001 08-22-2010 03:23 PM

Towing?
 
I'm sure there have been threads about towing but I feel that this question lies outside of the typical realm of concerns.

Recently, I have been looking into front and rear bumper upgrades from "Body Armor" products TJ-19331 and the TJ-2931.

Here are the pics (since you guys love 'em images)

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...19331front.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...J-2931rear.jpg

The rep at "Body Armor" stated that the bumpers themselves are very strong and durable, they are not towing rated because of the strength of the rear cross member (frame strength). He recommended not to exceed 150lbs.

Here is a rear x-member (this is not my Jeep)

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...itz_03/rcm.jpg

All I am looking to do is add a 500lb cargo basket to the front and/or rear. In the future I would need the ability to tow a trailer and a small boat. I wouldn't exceed a tongue weight of 200lbs.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1..._03/basket.jpg

My concern is, what is the max towing capacity to maintain safe driving? I've read 200lbs tongue weight/2000lbs max towing weight online. Anyone have any recommendations? Should I not bother towing with my Jeep? (My brother has an XJ - would I be better off with his Jeep?)

Vaultzz 08-22-2010 03:27 PM

If you install an aux frame tie in then the Xmember gets reinforced by the frame and thn you can safely tow the max capacity, and get yanked out with out worrying about ripping it off :)

Theres lost of brands out there and they look something like this

http://www.jeeperman.com/images/lrg/FK-LG.jpg

But they need to be welded to the frame because of the shackles

coop42 08-22-2010 03:27 PM

Besttop.. I might be wrong, but I bekeive they are one of the few that sell a full 2.5" reciever on the rear bumper. If you intend to tow a boat or any thing else, thats what you need. My friend has a small business. He tows a 6' trailer all the time..

Jerry Bransford 08-22-2010 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaultzz (Post 736893)
If you install an aux frame tie in then the Xmember gets reinforced by the frame and thn you can safely tow the max capacity, and get yanked out with out worrying about ripping it off :)

Theres lost of brands out there and they look something like this

http://www.jeeperman.com/images/lrg/FK-LG.jpg

But they need to be welded to the frame because of the shackles

I agree that the frame tie-in like shown above is required for any serious towing. I had to install a new bumper last weekend for towing but I added frame tie-ins from Savvy to make sure it is strong enough. However, I'm not sure what you are talking about when you say "they need to be welded to the frame because of the shackles".

There are plenty of bumpers rated to tow 2,000 lbs, with integrated 2" receiver hitches, my "Rock Bumper" from Olympic (on my TJ that was stolen) was rated for towing.

Just make sure there are attach points for towing which is the law for every state I am aware of.

And Coop42, it's a 2" receiver hitch that we use, not a 2.5". :)

TerrorJ2001 08-22-2010 03:49 PM

lol, Jerry - I was waiting for your response.

I'm sure the d-ring shackles can be used for attach points. NYS requires safety chains but doesn't specify any specific length/location of the chains

Over-all I like the look of the bumpers, my logic was getting something "all-in-one" than individually buying hitches, recovery points (hooks), mounting spots for extra lights.

Thanks

NHrubicon 08-23-2010 08:08 AM

D ring shackles are not legal chain points for towing...you must have the chain running through, around, or to the FRAME and not tied to the same bumper system the hitch is tied to...it's to prevent the bumper from pulling off the rig and taking the trailer down the road with it...having chains hooked to something else will keep it attached.
Although probably no cops realize it and just figure if you have the chains hooked to something you are okay to go...but stop and think about it.
Where does the tow truck hook up to on you? Not the bumper...!

Jerry Bransford 08-23-2010 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NHrubicon (Post 737866)
...you must have the chain running through, around, or to the FRAME and not tied to the same bumper system the hitch is tied to...it's to prevent the bumper from pulling off the rig and taking the trailer down the road with it!

That's not true, legal bolt-on style tow hitches like from U-Haul and bumpers with legal integrated tow hitches have the safety chain attach points welded directly to the sides of the receiver hitch. All in one piece. They don't have separate safety chain attach points that would stay if the bumper or hitch came loose.

My first factory Mopar tow hitch, my bolt-on U-haul tow hitch, my Olympic Rock Bumper with its integrated receiver hitch, and my current Dirt Works bumper with its integrated hitch all have integrated safety chain attach points in one bolt-on assembly.

GoldenSahara00 08-23-2010 11:03 AM

Well, I have a hitch/reciever whatever u call it in your parts, and it connects up to my frame on each side, and comes back under my bumper. I just towed my 12 or 14 foot trailer with probably 800 pounds of river rock on it.... that was probably pushing the 2000 limit for my jeep, but I barely felt it :) I would look into one of those, I think its like the guys above me are talking about.

Vaultzz 08-23-2010 11:18 AM

Jerry, I meantthey need to be welded since the bolts usually interfere with the rear shackles of a YJ, I thought he had a YJ :rofl: woops

Jerry Bransford 08-23-2010 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaultzz (Post 738134)
Jerry, I meant they need to be welded...

Huh? :confused:

Vaultzz 08-23-2010 11:26 AM

Atleast that's what I've been told. I was told that having it bolted would have the bolt stick out and prevent the shackle from moving back. If that makes anysense

Ibuildembig 08-23-2010 11:31 AM

I think most companies will tell you that they are not tow rated to keep themselves out of court. Dad has had several different YJ's at his river house to launch is boat off the front end. All I did was make a reciever tube and weld it through the stock bumper and gusset it, but still made it removable so when we sell that jeep we can put it on the next one. I feel that if the material is good and the weld is good, you shouldn't have a problem. After all, a 1" of weld is good for 1K pounds :D

TerrorJ2001 08-23-2010 11:34 AM

I wish I could weld things. It would give me peace of mind for a lot of projects.

Ibuildembig 08-23-2010 11:38 AM

Hey man, its just a matter of learning :)....I am self taught and passed all the cert tests.

Jerry Bransford 08-23-2010 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerrorJ2001 (Post 738164)
I wish I could weld things. It would give me peace of mind for a lot of projects.

Get yourself a small MIG welder from Miller, Hobart, or Lincoln and then buy a bunch of scrap steel to learn with. That's what I did and while my welds aren't always pretty, they are structurally sound and allow me to do things in my garage that I couldn't even think of doing without a welder. Having a welder will give you another way of doing many things that will be simpler and often cheaper.

Of all the welding disciplines, MIG has to be the easiest one to pick up in a rather short amount of time. Plus there are videos from companies like Miller that give you a jump start on the process. No one taught me, I just learned by doing a lot of practicing, reading, and watching a couple videos.

Ibuildembig 08-23-2010 11:55 AM

Agreed, cept you have to remember you get what you pay for. I would never buy a 110Volt machine. They are too hard for a beginner to use. Find you a good used 220V one and you won't ever look back. I just bought a TIG last friday, can't wait to get good at aluminum.

Jerry Bransford 08-23-2010 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibuildembig (Post 738210)
Agreed, cept you have to remember you get what you pay for. I would never buy a 110Volt machine. They are too hard for a beginner to use. Find you a good used 220V one and you won't ever look back. I just bought a TIG last friday, can't wait to get good at aluminum.

I purposely left the 110v vs. 220v thing out to keep it simple. I ran a 110v Hobart 140 for 3-4 years and it was good but I kept bumping up against its upper weld limits when I was trying to weld on a 12 sq. ft piece of 3/16" steel which was sucking the heat out faster than my Hobart could handle. I sold the 110v Hobart for a 220v Miller 180 amp which does anything I need it to. For small pieces of 3/16", the 110v Hobart was ok but it was too marginal for anything bigger.

530ktm 08-23-2010 12:36 PM

I have a Lincoln 225 amp 220 volt welder. I have had this for many years and I learned welding in college 100 years ago. I have welded and fabbed a lot of things over the years and have wondered what is the difference between the arc welder and mig except for the auto feed.

Jerry Bransford 08-23-2010 12:43 PM

MIG is arc, it just auto feeds the stick. Plus you can add gas to a MIG welder so you don't get all the slag and mess of gasless welding. :)

Ibuildembig 08-23-2010 01:23 PM

The only reason I mentioned it is to save someone some hassle in a 110. There are quality 110's out there, but by the time you buy one new you coulda had a good used 220v machine that will last forever. I've had my Miller 251 for 8 years now and I just replaced the liner in january.

DevilDogDoc 08-23-2010 01:58 PM

What's funny is the drawtite receiver hitch that came on my Jeep didn't need frame tie-ins, it uses all 8 bolts that hold the bumper on... It's rated at 2000 lbs.

Ibuildembig 08-23-2010 02:09 PM

Yeah most of the recievers I have seen on um are exactly that way too

Jerry Bransford 08-23-2010 02:10 PM

I added frame tie-ins to mine.

mrcarcrazy 08-23-2010 02:39 PM

For small stuff I personally don't see any issue with 110...esp since the only 220V many people have is dedicated to their dryer....(this is true for me at least)

Ibuildembig 08-23-2010 02:47 PM

Get the ole lady a clothes line :D

Jerry Bransford 08-23-2010 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrcarcrazy (Post 738428)
For small stuff I personally don't see any issue with 110...esp since the only 220V many people have is dedicated to their dryer....(this is true for me at least)

Most dryers sold today are gas, mine is. Not many run on 220v any more except in areas with no gas available. I disconnected my laundry room's 220v outlet and connected the 220v outlet I installed in my garage for the welder to that circuit.

You're right that a 110v is ok for the small stuff but even on my TJ, there was just too much it couldn't handle. I wouldn't have sold it to buy a 220v welder if it could have done everything I needed it to for my Jeep.

shipjim 05-09-2011 09:29 AM

Famous last words.....I needed it for my jeep....always works for me.


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