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-   -   Help, I need advise with sound system. (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/help-i-need-advise-with-sound-system-67212.html)

bear3351 10-30-2010 08:53 PM

Help, I need advise with sound system.
 
'07 2DR Wrangler.

Guys, Can I ask you,

Is the sound from the sound bar a lot lower and crappy from the sound coming out of the front?

I just had 4 Alpine SPS-600 installed and the sound form the front is 100% better that the sound coming out of the rear sound bar, almost no bass and faint in comparison.

I thought they were out of phase but he insists that it is the sound bar. What a waste of money! $300.00 later, Now he is telling me that if I change the radio I will get a better sound, that the stock radio is not powerful enough for the SPS-600 speakers. He told me that the stock radio only pushes 20W, is that right? He showed a 200W radio that he swears will make a big difference.

I should have just kept the old speakers.

What do you guys think?

jk'n 10-30-2010 09:30 PM

A sound system is only as good as its least quality components. I have an 08 Rubicon with the NAV system and upgraded audio system. I can tell you that the music that emanates from the system is luxurious. When I listen from the rear with the tail gate open, the base sounds like crap. However, it is hard to detect from the front. My conclusion is that the front speakers have such excellent reproduction that it must cover up the distorted base from the rear speaker.

That is my experience with the stock system in a Rubi, now, getting to your experience, I would advise doing a little shopping. First of all, if your purchase of the Alpine SPS 600 speakers was in fact a quality speaker purchase, and judging by the price, I would say that it was, then the sound that it is producing which doesn't meet your expectations must be because of the source...ie the stock system. Since the speakers were recently purchased, I would try and find a car stereo system seller that has your speakers that can play the audio of new systems into it. Then, make up your own mind about what it sounds like. Make those speakers sing. Let us know what you find. In my opinion, half the fun of shopping for a quality sound system is the hunt for what sounds great to your ears.

bear3351 10-31-2010 09:32 AM

Thanks for that reply.

I am thinking, is it possible that the speakers in the sound bar were installed pushed up against the roof of the bar and that may have an effect on the sound?
I am asking this because I've seen pictures of speakers were the face is actually sticking out of the bar (you can see the new speakers) In my case the speakers are there, but nothing sticking out, I even think he used the same original faceplate on them. Unless you look though the faceplate you won't see that the speakers have been changed.

thaduke2003 10-31-2010 11:42 AM

The only way to get real, quality sound in the JK is to replace the factory head unit, and add an amp. Expensive, but worth it if you really want quality sound- Mark W.

jk'n 10-31-2010 11:54 AM

The first question that comes to my mind regards the sound bar is: is it possible to get excellent sound reproduction from a speaker installed in that space. Excellent sound reproduction can be impaired by the enclosure if the speaker cone is not allowed to move according to the voltage that is delivered to it. This can happen for instance when the enclosure is closed and the air pressure is allowed to build inside the enclosure as the speaker(s) move in and out. Even if the enclosure is vented there are issues such as resonance. My experience with the stock sound bar with quality speakers is that the sound produced is of excellent quality. So I lean away from the enclosure degrading the sound. I think it is more likely your stock radio is not delivering a decent signal to the speakers. Speakers in the front of the jeep are of a size that they are capable of reproducing sounds in the treble and mid range well but bass not so well. So concentrate listening to this range of frequencies. Good high frequency response means crisp clean reproduction of such sounds as violins, lead guitars, the consonants of singers, etc. Mid range should reproduce instruments that are in the mid region of sounds such as the lower end of a lead guitar, the smaller drums or bongos, etc. These sounds when reproduced properly will make the music come alive. The low end, which most car stereos do a poor job on really require a good base boost speaker system sometimes called a kicker speaker or speakers. To get good low frequency response requires moving a lot of air in a closed compartment creating good pressure waves. That requires a lot of power and a robust speaker that either has a lot of surface area on the cone OR can move significantly from one end of travel to the other with a smaller cone diameter. Cars that you can hear the base on a half mile away and the base sounds rich and low means that the sound system is not only producing a lot of sound but doing it without distortion...a hard combination to achieve.

I would start with trying to get your excellent speaker purchase to produce excellent high and mid frequencies. That will be satisfying and may be all you are looking for.

jk'n 10-31-2010 11:59 AM

Mark,

You said pretty much the same thing with few words! :cool:

I got a little into theory. :p

dustyc 10-31-2010 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaduke2003
The only way to get real, quality sound in the JK is to replace the factory head unit, and add an amp. Expensive, but worth it if you really want quality sound- Mark W.

That is my thoughts too. You can have the best speakers in the world and it won't make much difference without a decent amp and head unit.

thaduke2003 10-31-2010 12:31 PM

^ No worries, amigo :) You were spot on.

Also, $50 in Dynamat went a long way. More would be better. The sound bar is a hollow plastic tube, so it's FAR from ideal as a speaker enclosure. Dynamatting the crap out of it is a great start to helping. Sealing one end from the other, and grometting off the wires would also be a solid idea if it means that much to you.

As for bass, fully agreed. While it's not so much the speakers as VERY crappy speaker enclosures limiting bass in the JK, adding a sub is ALWAYS the best way to get good bass out of a system. Putting that load on your full ranges (even with separate tweeters) will always be a compromise. I just put a nice, inexpensive 10" Polk db (to match 6.5" component db's up front, and 6.5" coax's in the sound bar) to my system, and I'll tell you, with everything amped, sound quality took a LEAP upward, and I can hear all of the notes/words, even top and doorless :) Giggity! Mark W.

bear3351 10-31-2010 01:49 PM

Hummmm, I'll have the stock radio replaced and hopefully it will satisfy me. I am not looking to blast music into the cars next to me, I just want some quality sound to help me enjoy the moment.

Thank you for educating me about this stuff!!

jk'n 10-31-2010 03:06 PM

My guess is that you will accomplish your goal of a good sounding system. There are many systems out there that sound great without an external power amp because they have adequate power built right into the system. There is a system out there that has your name on it. Hope you find what you are looking for.

seadog 10-31-2010 07:02 PM

Ok... let me ask a dumb question. My Sahara came with an upgraded audio system. Sub-woofer, etc. Honestly, it kicks butt. Even with the doors off and roof open. Is there anybody out there that makes a replacement sound bar that can handle a subwoofer? I'm tying two threads together. The other thread says get rid of it to gain more cargo space If not, I may look into designing one.

Kate 10-31-2010 07:26 PM

Yes!
There is a guy making pods that are gorgeous that will fit what you're looking for.
They were first introduced on ROF some time back by one of our members that had some custom made and everyone got very excited about them.

They're pretty spiffy, but they aren't cheap.
Link to thread on ROF

Link to the guys website Sierra Mountain Enterprises

He has an "Optional 10" subwoofer center console" available, but I have no information on it whatsoever.

thaduke2003 10-31-2010 07:33 PM

^First up, those are for the TJ, not a JK. Also, the sub they mention is for the center console in those models. The JK already has 6.5" speakers in the sound bar.

Mounting a subwoofer overhead would be largely a bad idea. Terrible acoustics, bad for handling, a lot of wire routing, nowhere to mount an amp nearby- not worth the effort- Mark W.

seadog 10-31-2010 07:37 PM

@Kate... Sweet. Right now i'm in the planning stage. I have to move into the funding stage. Just trying to get ideas.

Thanks.

seadog 10-31-2010 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaduke2003 (Post 851746)
Mounting a subwoofer overhead would be largely a bad idea. Terrible acoustics, bad for handling, a lot of wire routing, nowhere to mount an amp nearby- not worth the effort- Mark W.

Wiring is not an issue for me. I do it for a living. I just wanted to know if somebody had taken the hard part out. And Bass doesn't care where it's mounted. As long as the enclosure is right.

YMMV...

bear3351 10-31-2010 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaduke2003 (Post 851405)
^ No worries, amigo :) You were spot on.

Also, $50 in Dynamat went a long way. More would be better. The sound bar is a hollow plastic tube, so it's FAR from ideal as a speaker enclosure. Dynamatting the crap out of it is a great start to helping. Sealing one end from the other, and grometting off the wires would also be a solid idea if it means that much to you.

As for bass, fully agreed. While it's not so much the speakers as VERY crappy speaker enclosures limiting bass in the JK, adding a sub is ALWAYS the best way to get good bass out of a system. Putting that load on your full ranges (even with separate tweeters) will always be a compromise. I just put a nice, inexpensive 10" Polk db (to match 6.5" component db's up front, and 6.5" coax's in the sound bar) to my system, and I'll tell you, with everything amped, sound quality took a LEAP upward, and I can hear all of the notes/words, even top and doorless :) Giggity! Mark W.


Thanks for the hint!!!!!

What kind of stuff is Dynamat and where do I get it?
What do I do? Just bring a speaker down and start pushing the Dynamat into the sound bar?

cpisani89 10-31-2010 08:44 PM

this is why i do all the work myself. upgrading the deck will definately improve the sound good luck

brodydez 10-31-2010 08:50 PM

One thing that I had done to my speakers in my old 08 JKU is when I replaced the head unit, I also replaced the stock speaker wire. That wire is very thin and I replaced it with a thicker gauge wire. I saw a huge upgrade in sound quality just by doing that.

thaduke2003 10-31-2010 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seadog (Post 851756)
Wiring is not an issue for me. I do it for a living. I just wanted to know if somebody had taken the hard part out. And Bass doesn't care where it's mounted. As long as the enclosure is right.

YMMV...

What I mean by wiring is that you'll have several yards of sub (12 AWG) wire to run in a place where you'd need to drill holes in the soundbar to run them. This can lead to leaks when it rains, and shorts. No big deal there, as long as you seal it properly (which the layman may not be able to do) :)

As for bass not caring WHERE it's mounted, this is true. It's how. Putting it up top is all well and swell, but what are you going to attach it to? And besides the inherent handling degradation of adding weight at the top of the vehicle, you're adding a MAJOR safety hazard- e.g. a 10+ pound object mounted (presumably) right behind/next to your head that's suspended by a few screws/nuts and bolts, or whatever. FAR from ideal, especially when a regular, trunk-mounted sub box is SO much easier!

Bear- Dynamat is dedicated sound damping material. Run a web search for the cheapest set. I got mine from Crutchfield because I still get a shop discount from them. There are DEFINITELY cheaper places to get it online- Mark W.

willywaxer 11-01-2010 07:55 AM

The stock head unit sends a lower volume to the sound bar speakers. An aftermarket system will correct that. Also, try Whispermat. It is made for hardwood floors but costs about 10 times less and is the same material as Dynamat. Only problem is you have to buy a whole roll, but if your doing a lot, it really pays off.

bear3351 11-01-2010 04:19 PM

Do I just push the whispermat or Dynamat into the sound bar???? What is the procedure??? I am doing that, whatever it is.

thaduke2003 11-01-2010 04:51 PM

I've not used Whispermat, but Dynamat is cut into pieces. It's adhesive-backed, so you cut it into the shape you want, peel off the paper, and stick it on. Flatten it out as best you can for best results :) Mark W.

Macman1138 07-09-2011 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bear3351 (Post 851470)
Hummmm, I'll have the stock radio replaced and hopefully it will satisfy me. I am not looking to blast music into the cars next to me, I just want some quality sound to help me enjoy the moment.

Thank you for educating me about this stuff!!

I kept the stock GPS/Sat/AM/FM radio and swapped out the speakers in the sound bar and up front.
I went to Wal-Mart and picked up 2 pair of Sony 4-way 270 watt speakers and it makes all the difference in the world.
I've had very good luck with the Sony speakers in my Jeeps and they sound great to me.
For me, turning up the volume up to 17 is as loud as I can stand it.
I am on the look out for a replacement for the woofer in the back.
I was shocked how cheap and low quality the stock speakers are and was surprised they sounded as good as they did.

Mark

desertgoose 07-09-2011 02:55 AM

Who installed the speakers? I know if you have stock radio then the wires could be confusing. Any chance the wires are hooked up wrong? If pos and neg reversed the speaker will fire up and not out giving you crap sound and no bass. Sounds like there is a major difference from front speakers. Other people seem to have decent sound with their oem radios. My soundbar speakers sound great and didn't have space for polyfil due to crossovers wedged in there. Just had to run foam around mounting plates to get rid of rattle.

jk'n 07-09-2011 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertgoose (Post 1365047)
Who installed the speakers? I know if you have stock radio then the wires could be confusing. Any chance the wires are hooked up wrong? If pos and neg reversed the speaker will fire up and not out giving you crap sound and no bass. Sounds like there is a major difference from front speakers. Other people seem to have decent sound with their oem radios. My soundbar speakers sound great and didn't have space for polyfil due to crossovers wedged in there. Just had to run foam around mounting plates to get rid of rattle.

The only thing that reverse wiring one of the speakers will have is: while one speaker pushes, the other will pull instead of them both pushing and pulling at the same time. This will cause one to sound loud and the other to seem low. When replacing the speakers, note the positive side of the speaker and record what color wire is on that terminal for both speakers. When attaching to the new speakers, be sure to put the wire that you recorded as positive on the replacement positive side.

Macman1138 07-10-2011 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertgoose (Post 1365047)
Who installed the speakers? I know if you have stock radio then the wires could be confusing. Any chance the wires are hooked up wrong? If pos and neg reversed the speaker will fire up and not out giving you crap sound and no bass. Sounds like there is a major difference from front speakers. Other people seem to have decent sound with their oem radios. My soundbar speakers sound great and didn't have space for polyfil due to crossovers wedged in there. Just had to run foam around mounting plates to get rid of rattle.

I installed the speakers, Chris. Just do one at a time and I found a wealth of information here on this forum. And I have done this sort of this sort of thing quite a few times anyway.
The front speakers were the most difficult but after printing out the steps that someone on this forum had posted on their speaker change out and it wasn't as bad.
The whole thing took about two and half hours.
Remember that the wiring is marked, the one with the stripe is positive, the other is negative.
Take your time to fit things, tighten your screws firm but not too tight and you'll be good to go.

desertgoose 07-10-2011 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macman1138 (Post 1367449)
I installed the speakers, Chris. Just do one at a time and I found a wealth of information here on this forum. And I have done this sort of this sort of thing quite a few times anyway.
The front speakers were the most difficult but after printing out the steps that someone on this forum had posted on their speaker change out and it wasn't as bad.
The whole thing took about two and half hours.
Remember that the wiring is marked, the one with the stripe is positive, the other is negative.
Take your time to fit things, tighten your screws firm but not too tight and you'll be good to go.

WRONG. :facepalm:I have a problem with saving stuff I will never use and just confirmed.(stock speakers and connectors) For both of the fronts Red solid is + and Green with red stripe is -. For the rears, solid green is + and black with white stripe is -, other side solid green + and solid blue -.

If you don't believe me and have the connectors and speakers still, take a 9 volt battery and short piece of speaker wire. Connect the wires to the wires going from plug to speaker and touch battery to wires. If the speaker pushes out towards the fabric speaker grill then the wire that was touched to the + on the battery is positive. If not, then it's the opposite. Note which side is positive and plug the connector that you took off, that will show you which is positive/negative. Hope this saves you the trouble of buying a new deck. :thumb:

Edit: May possibly be different colors on '07 but these colors are on my '09. The battery test never fails...

Macman1138 07-11-2011 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertgoose (Post 1367895)
WRONG. :facepalm:I have a problem with saving stuff I will never use and just confirmed.(stock speakers and connectors) For both of the fronts Red solid is + and Green with red stripe is -. For the rears, solid green is + and black with white stripe is -, other side solid green + and solid blue -.

If you don't believe me and have the connectors and speakers still, take a 9 volt battery and short piece of speaker wire. Connect the wires to the wires going from plug to speaker and touch battery to wires. If the speaker pushes out towards the fabric speaker grill then the wire that was touched to the + on the battery is positive. If not, then it's the opposite. Note which side is positive and plug the connector that you took off, that will show you which is positive/negative. Hope this saves you the trouble of buying a new deck. :thumb:

Edit: May possibly be different colors on '07 but these colors are on my '09. The battery test never fails...

Then you need to get in touch with the people who wrote the directions and correct them. Don't forget to use CAPS.

desertgoose 07-11-2011 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macman1138 (Post 1369680)
Then you need to get in touch with the people who wrote the directions and correct them. Don't forget to use CAPS.

I'm curious now. Did the soundbar have the same color wires as mine when you did it? Didn't mean to sound like a jerk, but I was on a mission to confirm either way. For example, on my soundbar one of the speakers has solid blue and green neither having a stripe. When I installed mine I noticed that the wires in the dash are different color than what is attached to each speaker which prompted me to test each set individually when installing my system. 20 years of stereo installation has taught me a few things.

sircody 12-19-2011 09:52 AM

Sound Bar
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bear3351 (Post 850533)
'07 2DR Wrangler.

Guys, Can I ask you,

Is the sound from the sound bar a lot lower and crappy from the sound coming out of the front?

I just had 4 Alpine SPS-600 installed and the sound form the front is 100% better that the sound coming out of the rear sound bar, almost no bass and faint in comparison.

I thought they were out of phase but he insists that it is the sound bar. What a waste of money! $300.00 later, Now he is telling me that if I change the radio I will get a better sound, that the stock radio is not powerful enough for the SPS-600 speakers. He told me that the stock radio only pushes 20W, is that right? He showed a 200W radio that he swears will make a big difference.

I should have just kept the old speakers.

What do you guys think?

Hello, wanted to see if i could help you guys out a little. It's not the sound bar that makes the speakers sound less then the front speakers which are the exact speakers as the ones in the sound bar, this is if you have the 7 speaker system. the canbus is set in the amp and/or head unit to have less power because of problems with the driver being right under those speakers in the soundbar and other issues. so easy fix is take it to jeep and force/or pay them to starscan it and reset the amp/headunit. Our jeeps are alot more hi tech and smarter then most really know...hope this helps:thumb:


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