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-   -   attaching recovery strap (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f19/attaching-recovery-strap-70108.html)

jebby 11-25-2010 11:43 AM

attaching recovery strap
 
hey all. i use a safe snatch strap (no hooks just looped ends) any ideas for attaching to vehicles that do not have tow hooks, i personally like to put it in my recievier hitch and put the pin through but many cars have no hitch.

JIMBOX 11-25-2010 12:09 PM

:cool: A snatch strap is VERY DANGEROUS to use for recovery of "STUCK" vehicles without "D" rings or "TOW" points, a "TOW" strap is easier, but still dangerous under a strain, without "TOW" points

I won't doit atall-unless

If it's a family/friend-thats different, but if the vehicle doesn't have factory frame "secure" brackets-your kinda in trouble-

You can EASY pull a vehicle in snow, but mud/over edge--lotta chances-

Leave itup to the tow truck-

Good luck

:rofl::rofl: JIMBO

jebby 11-25-2010 12:30 PM

sorry should have been more specific.... offroad its snatches tow hooks to tow hooks only with other trusted wheelers..... im talking rescuing 'cars' and the likes in the snow.... would a big D ring hooked up into the frame somethere work?

JD Adams 11-25-2010 12:33 PM

I've pulled a few cars out of snowbanks and ditches with snatch straps where the "car" had no official attachment point without a problem, but common sense should prevail.

I've attached to one or both wheels (through the spokes), around an axle, and around a leaf spring if it's there. On my end, it's strictly a D-ring on the hitch receiver (or a special slip-in receiver adapter just for that purpose if I have it with me) or occasionally, a front bumper tow hook. We *EASE* those vehicles out of the bad spot, with both drivers pulling using idle speed only. If more pulling is needed, we get a few guys to push the stuck vehicle a bit to break it loose. And I usually double-up the strap and use no more than 10 ft between us to minimize stretch/snap for safety.

And if it needs more than that, it's time to call in the professional wrecker who can lift/pull at the same time from a great distance away for safety. And as Jimbox mentions, forget it if they're over a cliff or deep in mud. A heavy wrecker with a strong winch is needed for this.

For a family member or friend, it's free. For a stranger, anything less than $50-bucks in advance gets them no more than a smile and wave goodbye. I've paid strangers in Jeeps for their assistance in the past and always appreciated the help.

For most snow pulls on FWD cars, I usually thread the strap through both rear wheel spokes, and hook the ends up to the tow hooks on my front bumper. This pulls evenly and gives you a LOT of control if you need to pull them backward more than a few feet and lets you turn their back end around to straighten them out.

Yjwolf 11-25-2010 12:42 PM

What we do with our tractor is keep a short piece of chain with large washers and a thick bolt. Attach the tow strap to the chain and put the chain on the frame

jebby 11-25-2010 02:00 PM

great info guys thanks...... was thinkin over my front tow hook around stuck cars axle then back to my other front tow hook, then 4L in reverse and slow and steady on the clutch

JIMBOX 11-25-2010 02:22 PM

:cool: Well, unless you can't turn around, you should NEVER tow using reverse !!

Also straping around the axle is very, disasterous, SHOULD be frame associated hookup !!


Quote:

Originally Posted by jebby (Post 893931)
great info guys thanks...... was thinkin over my front tow hook around stuck cars axle then back to my other front tow hook, then 4L in reverse and slow and steady on the clutch

Not much more too say !!

:rofl::rofl: JIMBO

Bigstonz 11-25-2010 09:31 PM

Differential gears don't like towing in reverse!

bobjenkins 11-25-2010 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JIMBOX (Post 893949)
:cool: Well, unless you can't turn around, you should NEVER tow using reverse !!

Also straping around the axle is very, disasterous, SHOULD be frame associated hookup !!




Not much more too say !!

:rofl::rofl: JIMBO

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigstonz (Post 894389)
Differential gears don't like towing in reverse!

Wait do you mean actual long distance towing or recovering? Should I not hook up a strap to my front bumper hooks and the other side to a h2 stuck in mud and pull backwards?

Please explain whats wrong with it I cant get my head around it :punk:

Bigstonz 11-25-2010 09:52 PM

From what I understand, differential gears are designed such that they are much stronger pulling forward

JD Adams 11-25-2010 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigstonz (Post 894431)
From what I understand, differential gears are designed such that they are much stronger pulling forward

Interesting thesis. Can you cite the authority on this? If so, I'd like to investigate your claim further.

When backing a stuck vehicle out at idle speeds, very little strength is required, so it's probably a moot point, but I'd still be interested in your findings.

PatriotNC 11-25-2010 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigstonz (Post 894431)
From what I understand, differential gears are designed such that they are much stronger pulling forward

I've not heard this. I've pulled quite a few people out, going backwards. I prefer to go forwards, but sometimes circumstances don't allow that. I too, will look into this.

jebby 11-26-2010 07:58 AM

thanks all. good info.... i'd like to hear more as well.....forward is no problem i just figured ive seen people go nose to nose many times....

JIMBOX 11-26-2010 08:06 AM

:cool: Heh Heh, No it's not Diff. gears they couldn't care less--

It's either stick/auto reverse (think small) gearing and shafts, they have probably 50/60% less strength than the forward splines/gears/synchros/bands-

Yes, of course you can doit if you HAVE to, but it's a much safer/better idea to use the recovery vehicle REAR tow points !!

:rofl::rofl: JIMBO

JD Adams 11-26-2010 10:39 AM

Here's a brief U.S. Army vehicle recovery manual for your perusal:

http://www.landroverbrotherhood.com/...lerecovery.pdf

Hmmm..nowhere do I see anything about transmission reverse or differential gearing being "weaker" then forward gearing for the purposes of vehicle recovery.

I await proof of this claim...

JIMBOX 11-26-2010 11:06 AM

:cool: You read my commenrts about the Differentials-

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD Adams (Post 894928)
Here's a brief U.S. Army vehicle recovery manual for your perusal:

http://www.landroverbrotherhood.com/...lerecovery.pdf

Hmmm..nowhere do I see anything about transmission reverse or differential gearing being "weaker" then forward gearing for the purposes of vehicle recovery.

I await proof of this claim...

I'm not going to research info for the dangers of using the tow vehicle, (normal) in reverse, auto/manual, but

I've seen a Toyota and Ford blow reverse gears for recovery, using there front D-rings and I've read about the dangers for quite a few years--

If thats not good enough for you, thats fine-do what you want to, this isn't a training manual (join the ARMY)-

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/m...can0002a-1.jpg

:rofl::rofl: JIMBO

shrubeck 11-26-2010 11:59 AM

Check out the profile of ring gear teeth. The drive side is almost perpendicular to the ring. The coast side is at an angle. Towing in reverse puts pressure on the coast side instead of the drive side which pushes the ring and pinion gears away from eachother creating a lot of stress inside the differential. That said, pulling a car out of the snow slowly in reverse isn't going to hurt anything.

http://www.chicagoconnection.us/imag...M4209F373N.jpg

jgwalt 11-26-2010 04:56 PM

Quote:

I await proof of this claim...
:(

I do too. I thought it was almost better to pull in reverse because the reverse gear is lower than 1st. I've pulled people out lots of times in reverse with no problem.

daggo66 11-26-2010 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgwalt (Post 895351)
:(

because the reverse gear is lower than 1st.

I've never heard of that. Should I start running difficult trails in reverse now?:rolleyes:

J10 11-26-2010 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daggo66 (Post 895381)
I've never heard of that. Should I start running difficult trails in reverse now?:rolleyes:

Here are the ratios of the gears, the higher the number the more power you will get aka more turns of the motor to the transmission


AX-15 - 1997-1999
* 5 speed manual
* Used with 6 cyl models
* 10 spine input
* 23 spline output
* Ratios:

1st - 3.83
2nd - 2.33
3rd - 1.44
4th - 1.00
5th - 0.79
Rev - 4.22

Check out the rest here
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f5/tj-t...ecs-26347.html

As much fun as reverse through an entire trail run sounds I might advise against it :)

jgwalt 11-26-2010 05:38 PM

I was referring to my ax-5. Thanks J-10

JD Adams 11-26-2010 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JIMBOX (Post 894953)

"you should NEVER tow using reverse !!"

"I'm not going to research info for the dangers of using the tow vehicle, (normal) in reverse..."

Okay, let's recap, shall we, JIMBOX? You claim that is is dangerous to pull a vehicle in reverse, however cannot cite factual authority on the subject. When asked to clarify your thesis and offer proof of your claim, you tell us you are not going to research the subject?

JIMBOX: unless you have factual information to offer the OP and others in this thread and you can back it up with a credible authority, DON'T BOTHER POSTING NONSENSE. The internet is already full of idiots spouting BS as it is. Don't add to it.

And from BIGSTONZ, we get:

"From what I understand, differential gears are designed such that they are much stronger pulling forward"

I've asked for more factual information on this claim as well. All I hear is the sound of crickets. If you can't cite factual authority to back up your OPINION, again, don't waste our time with this nonsense.

The biggest reason I usually avoid Jeep Discussion Groups is because of nonsense like this. Jerry would probably agree with me. If you don't know what you're talking about, kindly refrain from asserting your opinion as factual information. Otherwise, you may run into someone like me.

daggo66 11-26-2010 08:47 PM

Actually neither side has presented any worthwhile evidence.

The Army manual makes a refenece the you should connect the front of the stuck vehicle to the REAR of the recovery vehicle. There is also a diagram of a recovery being pulled forward and attached to the rear.

Dropping the name "Jerry" doesn't impress me nor validate your credentials.

JIMBOX 11-26-2010 08:53 PM

:cool: Heh Heh, I'll post what I want to and if you're not happy with my lack of FACTUAL data to back up anything I say--


Quote:

Originally Posted by JD Adams (Post 895605)
Okay, let's recap, shall we, JIMBOX? You claim that is is dangerous to pull a vehicle in reverse, however cannot cite factual authority on the subject. When asked to clarify your thesis and offer proof of your claim, you tell us you are not going to research the subject?

JIMBOX: unless you have factual information to offer the OP and others in this thread and you can back it up with a credible authority, DON'T BOTHER POSTING NONSENSE. The internet is already full of idiots spouting BS as it is. Don't add to it.

And from BIGSTONZ, we get:

"From what I understand, differential gears are designed such that they are much stronger pulling forward"

I've asked for more factual information on this claim as well. All I hear is the sound of crickets. If you can't cite factual authority to back up your OPINION, again, don't waste our time with this nonsense.

The biggest reason I usually avoid Jeep Discussion Groups is because of nonsense like this. Jerry would probably agree with me. If you don't know what you're talking about, kindly refrain from asserting your opinion as factual information. Otherwise, you may run into someone like me.

PM the Admin/Mod and have me banned for wasting bandwidth, because I'm sure that no one would dare question any "observations" you might post and if I'm not banned, I'll just keep posting what I personally know, without FACTUAL data links-

It"s too bad you can't take any PERSONAL data and treat it as factual, based on experience, rather than a posted readers digest article-

Maybe you can ask (Jerry)???if he has FACTUAL evidence that the recovery action, at any time doesn't have any limit on the recovery vehicle using REVERSE !!

Please post your data so the general forum, will see that I'm way off base !

:rofl::rofl: JIMBO

Barrie 11-26-2010 09:08 PM

Keep it nice and civil people. :wavey:

bobjenkins 11-26-2010 10:31 PM

I'm interested why still. Someone states why then someone else says that's not posssible . We need some certified WF researchers

Or someone can just text chacha LOL

Bigstonz 11-27-2010 01:17 AM

Sorry I can't provide you with a specific reference. I used to help folks out in reverse all the time, it's more convenient. A freind pointed out that it's better for the drivetrain to tow forwards. I checked around on the various forums and found alot of references to support this. Go ahead and ask Jerry or any other jeep guru, I'm pretty confident they'd agree.
Have a rough Turkey Day there, JD?

MikeMTJ 11-27-2010 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD Adams (Post 895605)
Okay, let's recap, shall we, JIMBOX? You claim that is is dangerous to pull a vehicle in reverse, however cannot cite factual authority on the subject. When asked to clarify your thesis and offer proof of your claim, you tell us you are not going to research the subject?

JIMBOX: unless you have factual information to offer the OP and others in this thread and you can back it up with a credible authority, DON'T BOTHER POSTING NONSENSE. The internet is already full of idiots spouting BS as it is. Don't add to it.

And from BIGSTONZ, we get:

"From what I understand, differential gears are designed such that they are much stronger pulling forward"

I've asked for more factual information on this claim as well. All I hear is the sound of crickets. If you can't cite factual authority to back up your OPINION, again, don't waste our time with this nonsense.

The biggest reason I usually avoid Jeep Discussion Groups is because of nonsense like this. Jerry would probably agree with me. If you don't know what you're talking about, kindly refrain from asserting your opinion as factual information. Otherwise, you may run into someone like me.

I don't have a problem with someone posting incorrect info, as long as it is corrected. You, on the other hand, are just being rude. I joined this forum because I rarely see people get flamed. Don't start a trend.........

Bigstonz 11-27-2010 01:35 AM

Hey! Jerry agrees. See daddyrod thread called "Tow Hooks" 3-17-08. He cites the axles as being the weak link. He also recommends being in 4x4 mode to distribute the stress on the drivetrain evenly. I've also seen Schrubeck's info on the ring and pinion teeth in other forums.

s3nt3nc3d 11-27-2010 04:01 AM

I too am genuinely interested in facts backing up either claim...not for arguments sake, but for proper knowledge on the subject...if it's bad, I want to know why it's bad for sure. If it's safe on the vehicle's drivetrain, I want something to assure me that it's safe.


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