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-   -   AEM Brute force (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/aem-brute-force-7939.html)

foxinthemudd 05-10-2007 04:47 AM

AEM Brute force
 
Ok so I have been thinking about going one of two routes, either the AEM Brute force air intake, or the Snorkel route. now I have some questions about this before I make up my mind on which one I want to run with.

1. what is involved in running/installing a snorkel kit? I've heard that if you want to play tug boat that a lot of sealing is needed (engine wise).

2. I live in Oregon so it rains a ton what would this do if I had a snorkel sucking in rain while I'm driving?

3. I'm going to be installing a 4.0L TB w/spacer. if I upgraded to either of these do I need to go with the 4.0L model or just stick with the 2.5L?

ADVICE PLEASE!

compshooter 05-10-2007 08:57 AM

Well, I am assuming that you have the 2.5 engine, hence the 4.0 TB install. As for that install, forgo the spacer. Just bolt on the 4.0 TB and you'll notice a top end improvement.

Jerry Bransford 05-10-2007 12:27 PM

My crystal ball says you will notice........ nothing after installing either of those. Unless in the unlikely possibilty you are suceptible to the placebo effect. :)

compshooter 05-10-2007 06:13 PM

Sorry Jerry, gotta disagree partially with you. The spacer will not make a difference, there I agree. The 4.0 TB on a 2.5 TB will make a difference, though small. You are allowing more air to pass through the 4.0 TB which has a larger bore. Hence, a slight incease in power.

A friend of mine heard about the mod and aquired a 4.0 TB. Since his Jeep was in the shop, We tried it out on mine. Used a hill (paved road, speed limit 55) and maintained speed until having to downshift. After putting on the 4.0 TB, Jeep felt a little peppier. Ran same road, replicating test. Downshift point was almost 100 yards farther down the road.

Though this test is not very scientific, I do believe the 4.0 TB on a 2.5 will provide a slight increase in top end performance.

Just my .02 worth.

Jerry Bransford 05-10-2007 06:28 PM

Though quoting Jp Magazine is like the UN quoting the National Enquirer, they recently tried a 4.0 TB on a 2.5L and they didn't notice any difference either. The only time such a mod could make any difference anyway would be at extremely high RPMs at wide-open throttle, the only time it could ever use a little more air. You'd have to be a quarter-mile racer for any slight benefit, if at all. At least in my personal opinion. :)

foxinthemudd 05-10-2007 11:57 PM

ok so we all have some mixed feelings about the TB but equal about the TBS. what about the AEM intake? I'm going to do the 4.0 install do I need to find the intake tube to fit the 4.0 or the 2.5? is the AEM a good mod or should I go with a snorkel? .02 cents?

AzTJ 05-11-2007 12:31 AM

niether... they are one of those things that you buy just to say you got one.

Jerry Bransford 05-11-2007 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxinthemudd (Post 80766)
is the AEM a good mod or should I go with a snorkel? .02 cents?

Is neither an option? :p

1BLKJP 05-11-2007 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 80692)
Though quoting Jp Magazine is like the UN quoting the National Enquirer, they recently tried a 4.0 TB on a 2.5L and they didn't notice any difference either. :)

Jerry you gotta stop stealing Blaine's quotes bud. :D

As far as the AEM intake and TB spacer. I have one on mine, but I got it free from AEM. That's the only reason I have it on there at all. I didn't notice any performance gains from either mod.

I've been thinking of running my jeep at a local dyno shop just for the hell of it. I think when I do I'm gonna run one pass with the TBS and Intake and then run a pass with the stock intake and see if there's any difference.

Jerry Bransford 05-11-2007 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1BLKJP (Post 80777)
Jerry you gotta stop stealing Blaine's quotes bud. :D

It was so good I couldn't help it. :flipoff:

compshooter 05-11-2007 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 80692)
The only time such a mod could make any difference anyway would be at extremely high RPMs at wide-open throttle, the only time it could ever use a little more air. You'd have to be a quarter-mile racer for any slight benefit, if at all. At least in my personal opinion. :)

That was basically what our test was. 5th gear, pedal in the floor to see when we would have to downshift. Made it 100 yards farther before the downshift, so as you said, the wide-open throttle is where the benifit can be noticed. So it seems that we are both agreeing (up to a point) that this mod does help on the top end (wide open).

JCS05Rubi 05-11-2007 09:00 AM

could help the 4cyls in the mud where WOT is seen at times, and power is vital. but intakes/tbs are a waste of money unless you need a snorkel for deep water/mud

foxinthemudd 05-11-2007 12:41 PM

up here in oregon we do alot of mud, as much as I love rock climbing there isn't a whole lot of it around this area. but if I ever want to go out and get totally covered in the gooey stuff I can, so this is what our primary wheeling is at least in my area.

Mike001 05-11-2007 01:00 PM

The only way you can actually know if it works would be a dyno test and just by the shear nature of the engine and what you are doing to it I would say you might get like7-10 horsepower from the intake which is a negligable gain. YOu would need a full exhaust to truly benefit from increasing intake into the engine. You also have to be able to get that extra air out better.

Jerry Bransford 05-11-2007 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike001 (Post 80905)
I would say you might get like7-10 horsepower from the intake .

How did you arrive at that estimate for a TJ? While I would agree that amount of gain is very realistic for many cars, I don't believe a TJ engine will gain anything even close to that amount. :)

Mike001 05-11-2007 01:13 PM

Because 2-3 just seemed low even though thats kinda what was on my mind. But with a TB and a good intake its possible.

Jerry Bransford 05-11-2007 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike001 (Post 80916)
Because 2-3 just seemed low even though thats kinda what was on my mind. But with a TB and a good intake its possible.

Well, I guess we can agree that we have different opinions on how much gain is realistically possible then. :)

Mike001 05-11-2007 01:18 PM

What do you think is a realistic number?

Jerry Bransford 05-11-2007 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike001 (Post 80923)
What do you think is a realistic number?

Some magazine (I think it was 4Wheel Drive & Sport Utility) ran a dyno test with a TB spacer and the best they could say was perhaps 1 hp. And at the HP levels being tested, that 1 hp amount of change could be equally attributed to everything from test tolerances to a minor RPM difference.

I'm just one that, over years of an interest in TB spacers and air intakes for the 4.0L engine, has a strong personal opinion that neither do squat for the 4.0L engine. They certainly can in many other vehicles like the Mustang 5.0L engine that has a restrictive air intake system but the TJ's is very free breathing from the factory. Really, it is.

Maybe 6 months before the Rubicons hit the dealers, I got a call from the Jeep engineer who is accepted as the "father" of the Rubicon, Jim Repp. While I had him on the phone, I asked him about the 4.0L's air intake design. Jim laughed and said he knew about all the discussions about aftermarket air intakes but confirmed they specifically designed the OE air intake to be totally non-restrictive. He also said while aftermarket air intakes and spacers (but only under carburetors) can help many cars, they really won't help the TJ's 4.0L engine. Jim has been with Jeep since AMC days and drives a CJ himself. At least he specifically confirmed what I had felt for years, that all those aftermarket TB spacers and air intake kits only help those with a strong suceptibility to the placebo affect. :)

JCS05Rubi 05-11-2007 01:33 PM

Daddy says no, Ive been taught to say yessir :D

Mike001 05-11-2007 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 80927)
Some magazine (I think it was 4Wheel Drive & Sport Utility) ran a dyno test with a TB spacer and the best they could say was perhaps 1 hp. And at the HP levels being tested, that 1 hp amount of change could be equally attributed to everything from test tolerances to a minor RPM difference.

I'm just one that, over years of an interest in TB spacers and air intakes for the 4.0L engine, has a strong personal opinion that neither do squat for the 4.0L engine. They certainly can in many other vehicles like the Mustang 5.0L engine that has a restrictive air intake system but the TJ's is very free breathing from the factory. Really, it is.

Maybe 6 months before the Rubicons hit the dealers, I got a call from the Jeep engineer who is accepted as the "father" of the Rubicon, Jim Repp. While I had him on the phone, I asked him about the 4.0L's air intake design. Jim laughed and said he knew about all the discussions about aftermarket air intakes but confirmed they specifically designed the OE air intake to be totally non-restrictive. He also said while aftermarket air intakes and spacers (but only under carburetors) can help many cars, they really won't help the TJ's 4.0L engine. Jim has been with Jeep since AMC days and drives a CJ himself. At least he specifically confirmed what I had felt for years, that all those aftermarket TB spacers and air intake kits only help those with a strong suceptibility to the placebo affect. :)


Well then thats that Jerry if there was a dyno test hen thats all there is to it no more no less. I personally wouldn't spend the money on an intake for my Jeep because as you stated it doesn't look restrictive at all. I would like a snorkel for performence but only becasue water don't compress and I like to test my Jeep fording abilities and have had a few close calls.

foxinthemudd 05-11-2007 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike001 (Post 80905)
The only way you can actually know if it works would be a dyno test and just by the shear nature of the engine and what you are doing to it I would say you might get like7-10 horsepower from the intake which is a negligable gain. YOu would need a full exhaust to truly benefit from increasing intake into the engine. You also have to be able to get that extra air out better.

I do have a full exhaust header pacesetter catback flowmaster. I only have the 2.5L, so all this talk about the 4.0L doesn't really apply to me. I just want to get a little more power and keep the engine cooler with my experiance in air intakes I can keep it cooler at least and have a better sounding rig all at the same time.


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