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-   -   aftermarket air intakes (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/aftermarket-air-intakes-82105.html)

Rubicondon53 02-26-2011 06:28 AM

aftermarket air intakes
 
I know I am going to get killed for this, but here goes. For the 1st 60k miles I ran a cold air intake, with K&N filter on my 4 liter. I installed it brand new, when my rubi was brand new. Did a lot of research, plunked down the cashola, and just did it. I suffered with high idle problems, ( the idle would not kick down), and while finness rock crawling, idle RPMs, were inconsistent. While traveling to Moab last May, the idle became very rough after several hours of hard interstate driving. I took the damn thing off 5k mile ago, and am selling it on ebay right now. It was the biggest waste of money I have spent on my jeep. A couple of unnoticed horses, and a couple of unnoticed ft lbs of torque, and NO increases in fuel mileage, are just not worth the high idle problem, nor the 145 bucks shelled out in the first place. I do give it 1/2 star rating for the "cool" factor. It did look good under the hood. Fire away motor heads!!

Atthehop 02-26-2011 07:23 AM

Admitting it is the first step. I am sure there will be posts on how great they are. It is usually someone asking how good they are not how much of a waste of money it was.

03Ruth 02-26-2011 07:40 AM

Have to agree with it being a waste of money. That being said I found that out only after installing a banks on mine. Sounds good and looks cool under the hood but thats about it. Another hard jeep lesson learned!

jayb 02-26-2011 07:43 AM

Thanks for the info. Saved me some bucks.
Well not really, cause I'm sure ill spend it on something equally frivolous.

Pony Hauler 02-26-2011 07:45 AM

I bought my 04 Rubi with an AEM CAI on it. Where can I buy the stock intake at, without breaking the bank?

Riptide63 02-26-2011 07:49 AM

I don't think you'll get killed for that one. :) While "cold air" or "free flowing" intakes do offer some benefit to more performance oriented engines, they're useless on a stock Jeep. It's been my experience that anything over 3000 rpms on a Jeep inline is just wasted gas, as most of the SOTP power & torque are in the 3k & under range. On smaller, lower rpm engines you're simply not moving enough air to see any benefit over the stock air box. My most recent TJ had an Airaid on it when I bought it. I traded it on Craigslist for a stock air box and saw ZERO loss in performance, even at WOT.

Secondly, having an open cone filter on something you're going to take off road, especially if you're going into mud & water, is just asking for trouble.

Arch Stanton 02-26-2011 08:42 AM

I spent close to $300 for Mopar CAI and throttle-body spacer. I didn't notice much difference as well. I bought mine based on the positive reviews by JP Magazine reviews of the AEM Brute Force CAI. The Mopar CAI appears to be identical to the AEM with the exception of the oiled filter. In hindsight, I would have saved the money for gas, but I just bought the Jeep when gas went up almost three years ago. I'm sure they will sell CAI and other forms of snake oil now that gas is going up again due to what's happening in the Middle East.

jgorm 02-26-2011 09:37 AM

The air intake tubing cannot cause a high idle. A high idle is caused by a vacuum leak on the other side of the throttle plate. I did some testing on my dyno (search 18 dyno pulls and jgorm) and got pretty much 0 hp with my CAI. I will say that the engine sounds 100x cooler and tougher, and my IATs are WAY lower when going slow, off roading, and stopped. Is it worth $200? For me it is, for 2 reasons. 1. It moves the stock intake out of my way so that I can do the DIY front fender lift. 2. It sucks fresh cold air from the cowl instead of super hot radiator backwash. Maybe there is a "ram air" effect on the freeway. If feels faster, but maybe I'm biased because it sounds so much more bad ass. I'll do the classic "leaf blower dyno" to find out for sure if its in my head or not.

UnlimitedLJ04 02-26-2011 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgorm (Post 1083747)
The air intake tubing cannot cause a high idle. A high idle is caused by a vacuum leak on the other side of the throttle plate. I did some testing on my dyno (search 18 dyno pulls and jgorm) and got pretty much 0 hp with my CAI. I will say that the engine sounds 100x cooler and tougher, and my IATs are WAY lower when going slow, off roading, and stopped. Is it worth $200? For me it is, for 2 reasons. 1. It moves the stock intake out of my way so that I can do the DIY front fender lift. 2. It sucks fresh cold air from the cowl instead of super hot radiator backwash. Maybe there is a "ram air" effect on the freeway. If feels faster, but maybe I'm biased because it sounds so much more bad ass. I'll do the classic "leaf blower dyno" to find out for sure if its in my head or not.

you can get the same effect a whole lot cheaper - fitting highline fenders or the ram effect, or a true CAI.

Windstar airbox inside the engine compartment.
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...e/DSC01946.jpg

Windstar airbox to the cowl:
http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/a...3lds21/107.jpg

Mustang GT airbox to the cowl:
http://i41.tinypic.com/16744zc.jpg

Snorkel nose you can use in either direction (from windstar fenderwell):
http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/a...3lds21/005.jpg

jgorm 02-26-2011 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnlimitedLJ04 (Post 1083822)
you can get the same effect a whole lot cheaper - fitting highline fenders or the ram effect, or a true CAI.

I know. I was too lazy to source out the parts, and troubleshoot any fitment issues. I'm a busy guy and sometimes it easier to pay for a kit that will fit, even when I know I could rig one up for less money, but way more time. I spent a total of about 20 minutes installing this one. It would take me 1.5hr to go to the junk yard. I even had a mustang GT airbox, and its a tight fit! I can't believe they got it to work, I canned the idea after messing with the airbox in the jeep for a while. I might rid one up in the future so it can use a bigger filter than that tiny one I have, but that is much lower on my long list of things to do.

Arch Stanton 02-26-2011 11:33 AM

Spetre makes a CAI that brings in air from the cowl.

Rubicondon53 02-26-2011 04:43 PM

high idle
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jgorm (Post 1083747)
The air intake tubing cannot cause a high idle. A high idle is caused by a vacuum leak on the other side of the throttle plate. I did some testing on my dyno (search 18 dyno pulls and jgorm) and got pretty much 0 hp with my CAI. I will say that the engine sounds 100x cooler and tougher, and my IATs are WAY lower when going slow, off roading, and stopped. Is it worth $200? For me it is, for 2 reasons. 1. It moves the stock intake out of my way so that I can do the DIY front fender lift. 2. It sucks fresh cold air from the cowl instead of super hot radiator backwash. Maybe there is a "ram air" effect on the freeway. If feels faster, but maybe I'm biased because it sounds so much more bad ass. I'll do the classic "leaf blower dyno" to find out for sure if its in my head or not.

True the tube is not the cause, but it has not had the problem since i went back to stock. I believe it was idling all over the place cause the sensors were sending confusing signals to the main brain. After a 6 or 7 hundred miles on the interstate, it would hardly hold idle at all, it sounded like a very sick diesel...timing very retarded..(or advanced? hard to tell). I would shut it down for fueling up, and that would reset the computors back to stock, and wha la! perfect idle, until we went back to work again. No vacuum leaks here, I'm all over those, and am very familiar with how a motor behaves with vacuum leaks. If I do anything at all I will be adding a snorkel, for true cool air intake,, thanks all

Jerry Bransford 02-26-2011 05:00 PM

There's not an aftermarket air intake made that I would bother installing even if it were given to me free. The factory air intake was specifically designed to be non-restrictive and they succeeeded in doing so. There are any number of items I could install onto my TJ that would benefit it in some manner, an aftermarket air intake is not one of them. :)

99TJCrawler 02-26-2011 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arch Stanton (Post 1084003)
Spetre makes a CAI that brings in air from the cowl.

I bought this and turned it into a snorkel. If you are just buying it and planning on leaving it the way it is, Dont buy it. When you install it as the instructions say, you can hear the intake sucking air all the time while the Jeep is on...quite anoying. Wish I had seen the pic of the winstar intake to the cowl before I spent 200 on the spectre intake! Looks sharp.

jgorm 02-26-2011 05:55 PM

I have the spectre intake.

horsewithnoname 02-28-2011 06:27 PM

Hey, I know on my maxima it actually was a cold air intake because it bent down into the wheel well and picked up cold air but are these "cold" air? because it's still pretty much pulling the warm air from the engine compartment

OlllllO

jgorm 02-28-2011 07:15 PM

Yup, unless it pulls from the cowl, or a snorkel, its just another hot air intake. Mine makes more noise for sure, but I like it:) I only notice it after a cold startup, or during heavy throttle. You can hear how it sounds in this video. Scroll to 1:23 and 3:15.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL8T3...&feature=feedu

KawiMonsterSahara 03-01-2011 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnlimitedLJ04 (Post 1083822)

Im doing something Very similar to this... BUT i am doing it so that i can put this kit on: http://www.kilbyenterprises.com/KE-2200-K.htm:punk:

Which requires an "aftermarket" air intake:D

jgorm 03-01-2011 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KawiMonsterSahara (Post 1089806)
Im doing something Very similar to this... BUT i am doing it so that i can put this kit on: ::Kilby Enterprises::

$1250 for an air pump! damn. I spent $120 on 2 MV50s and did my all my 31s from 13 psi to 30+ psi in under 7 min total. (I like 22 psi, but I didn't catch them in time).

KawiMonsterSahara 03-01-2011 09:51 AM

its not JUST an air pump... its a belt driven ON BOARD air pump... everything is mounted and ill i have to do is stretch the hose out to air up my tires AND to use air tools on the trail... not to mention attaching my lockers to it....

try doing all that with your lil thing haha

UnlimitedLJ04 03-01-2011 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KawiMonsterSahara (Post 1089952)
its not JUST an air pump... its a belt driven ON BOARD air pump... everything is mounted and ill i have to do is stretch the hose out to air up my tires AND to use air tools on the trail... not to mention attaching my lockers to it....

trying doing all that if you're engine's down tho.:facepalm:

when's the last time you needed an air tool on the trail? do you plan on breaking stuff so much that you'll be using air tools frequently? what array of air tools do you plan to carry with you all the time?

btw, you can hook air lockers to just about any pump...electric or mechanically driven...as long as it provides the pressure required :)

Jerry Bransford 03-01-2011 10:07 AM

I will say that my York based OBA system complete with Kilby mounting bracket, 2.5 gallon air tank, fittings from Home Depot, etc. cost me around $400 total to get up and running. The $35 I paid for the used York F210 compressor helped a lot since a new York compressor isn't needed to run a simple OBA system. :)

jgorm 03-01-2011 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KawiMonsterSahara (Post 1089952)
its not JUST an air pump... its a belt driven ON BOARD air pump... everything is mounted and ill i have to do is stretch the hose out to air up my tires AND to use air tools on the trail... not to mention attaching my lockers to it....

try doing all that with your lil thing haha

Dual mv50s will put out 5cfm at 0 psi. Once I add my 2.5gal air tank into the mix it could run air tools too:wavey: But I have no need for air tools on the trail. Impact wrench-> nah, i'll spend the extra 1 minute to get the tire off. Drill-> nah those weak air drills suck. reciprocating saw -> no, the air ones suck and I have a hack saw in my kit. air wratchet -> no, they suck too, even my expensive IR one. cut off wheel-> maybe, but if you need one you have much bigger problems. Air nailers-> huh? An Onboard welder would be WAY more useful than running air tools.

Jerry Bransford 03-01-2011 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgorm (Post 1090016)
Dual mv50s will put out 5cfm at 0 psi.

I'm surprised you would even quote what TWO compressors do into 0 psi which is a totally useless and misleading CFM rating. A compressor's CFM rating is only useful when quoted into some type of pressure, like 20 psi. That type of rating is uesful as it actually shows how much air a compressor puts out in a real world use, not when simply pumping air out into open air.

Even small compressors can put out lots of air when they aren't having to pump air into an expanding tire that is pushing back with increasing amounts of resistance (air pressure). Once any pressure at all builds up in the tire, the MV50 CFM CFM rate drops off dramatically. It is certainly not even close to being able to run air tools other than for more than about three seconds until the air stored in an aux air tank is exhausted after that brief output.

Xsnois 03-01-2011 11:22 AM

Wow I'm glad I read this thread an CAI was going to be the next purchase I do have a question those of you who have fabricated your own CAI in to the cowl have you noticed any performance gains ? Or had any issues with doing so ? If there are benefits ie hp/ftlb/mpg I'm gonna strart scavenging

Sent from my iPhone using WF Access

jgorm 03-01-2011 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 1090051)
I'm surprised you would even quote what TWO compressors do into 0 psi which is a totally useless and misleading CFM rating. A compressor's CFM rating is only useful when quoted into some type of pressure, like 20 psi. That type of rating is uesful as it actually shows how much air a compressor puts out in a real world use, not when simply pumping air out into open air.

that is all they publish, but considering they have identical flow rates at 0 psi, and look identical, you can assume they are the same as the viair 400c.

http://www.joegorm.com/A%20Picture%20018%20(Large).jpg
.
The york does 4cfm at 90 psi with a high idle of 1200 rpms.
The dual mv50 setup does 2.82 cfm at 90psi. So at a regular idle, they would be nearly identical.

Jerry Bransford 03-01-2011 11:36 AM

Smittybilt's MV50 only looks like the Viair 400c from the outside. It's a good copy, externally. Tear them down as has been done on a few websites with photos of their insides, valves, etc. and you'll see that the MV50 is way different inside and not nearly as well made as the more expensive Viair compressor is. Don't confuse a Smittybilt MV50 with a Viair 400c.

jgorm 03-01-2011 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 1090155)
Smittybilt's MV50 only looks like the Viair 400c from the outside. It's a good copy, externally. Tear them down as has been done on a few websites with photos of their insides, valves, etc. and you'll see that the MV50 is way different inside and not nearly as well made as the more expensive Viair compressor is. Don't confuse a Smittybilt MV50 with a Viair 400c.

post up the links or its BS./

Jerry Bransford 03-01-2011 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgorm (Post 1090157)
post up the links or its BS./

Here's one...
Smittybilt MV50 vs. Viair 400p are they the same compressor? -

BANGER 03-01-2011 11:51 AM

My 04 Wrangler came with a AEM Brute Force intake . I bought a used air box from Davesjeep.com for $15 bucks and it had a new filter in it . It looks like it should be under the hood . And yes I sold the junk AEM to a guy that had to have it for $70 bucks
BANGER


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