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-   -   AX15 fluid change is kill'n me! (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/ax15-fluid-change-is-killn-me-84358.html)

Phil05LJ 03-12-2011 10:00 PM

AX15 fluid change is kill'n me!
 
Long story made somewhat short... I bought this TJ in Jan. and the first thing I did was change all the fluids. I put Redline 75w90 in it that was supposedly intended for diffs only in the tranny, my bad ($60 mistake:( ) 2nd and 4th started grinding shortly after (50 miles or so) so I changed it 2 weeks ago and used 10w30 Mobil 1 synthetic. Still some resistance with 2nd and 4th but no big deal, it was much better right away. The problem now after 200 miles with the M1 is that it has started "shuttering" in 1st gear when taking off cold, it shakes the whole Jeep. The shutter/ shimmy/ shake goes away after a few take offs and its gone once it warms up but it is progressively getting worse. Granted it's a 99 with 141k, I have no idea what has been replaced and what is still OEM. I'm really frustrated, I thought I was doing the right thing to preserve my equipment but it seems like I've opened a can of worms and it's costing a lot of hard earned dollars. Any suggestions? Thank you very much, signed, distraught Phil

Kykid 03-12-2011 10:37 PM

My 97 does the same thing. I wouldn't sweat it. I would imagine that when the clutch starts to wear down in a 5 speed it becomes harder for the jeep to take off, especially when it's cold. The more clutch wear , the more chatter your gonna get.

Phil05LJ 03-13-2011 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kykid
My 97 does the same thing. I wouldn't sweat it. I would imagine that when the clutch starts to wear down in a 5 speed it becomes harder for the jeep to take off, especially when it's cold. The more clutch wear , the more chatter your gonna get.

True, but the thing is it was fine when i bought it. I've only put 500 miles on it and the tranny fluid change started this whole domino affect.

meyers 03-13-2011 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kykid (Post 1113583)
My 97 does the same thing. I wouldn't sweat it. I would imagine that when the clutch starts to wear down in a 5 speed it becomes harder for the jeep to take off, especially when it's cold. The more clutch wear , the more chatter your gonna get.

The clutch setup is hydraulic and self adjusting it compensates for any wear that takes place. Chatter is the sign of another problem perhaps a bad pressure plate and or throwout bearing.

Kykid 03-13-2011 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meyers

The clutch setup is hydraulic and self adjusting it compensates for any wear that takes place. Chatter is the sign of another problem perhaps a bad pressure plate and or throwout bearing.

Completely agree with you here, cause I'm no clutch expert. Doesn't sound like a major problem though. I'd do another fluid change just to be sure all the crud is out of there.

Phil05LJ 03-13-2011 05:36 PM

Thanks, yeah I'm gonna change the fluid again. I'm hesitant to put motor oil back in it, maybe my tranny just doesn't like it or something else is going bad but that would be a strange coincidence. I know one thing, whatever fluid I put in next will be it. I can't afford to keep changing tranny fluid, all my money is going into the gas tank now!

Kykid 03-13-2011 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil05LJ
Thanks, yeah I'm gonna change the fluid again. I'm hesitant to put motor oil back in it, maybe my tranny just doesn't like it or something else is going bad but that would be a strange coincidence. I know one thing, whatever fluid I put in next will be it. I can't afford to keep changing tranny fluid, all my money is going into the gas tank now!

Yeah gas is the wallets worst nemesis by far. 10w 30 synthetic is the proper lube for the ax-15 tranny without a doubt. Did mine a couple months ago and I believe I used the same oil you did. You gotta keep in mind that it's going to shift differently with new fluid. If you didn't like the results of mobil try another brand and be patient. The ax-15 is a great and reliable transmission and is much less finicky than later trannys from what I hear. This may seem strange but I swear when I did my plugs and wires when I got my jeep the shifting got smoother cause the engine ran smoother. Something to think about if you havnt done them yet.

Phil05LJ 03-14-2011 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kykid

Yeah gas is the wallets worst nemesis by far. 10w 30 synthetic is the proper lube for the ax-15 tranny without a doubt. Did mine a couple months ago and I believe I used the same oil you did. You gotta keep in mind that it's going to shift differently with new fluid. If you didn't like the results of mobil try another brand and be patient. The ax-15 is a great and reliable transmission and is much less finicky than later trannys from what I hear. This may seem strange but I swear when I did my plugs and wires when I got my jeep the shifting got smoother cause the engine ran smoother. Something to think about if you havnt done them yet.

Thanks for the advice. I've started to notice that the shutter is worse when it's damp or raining. It was dry today, and fairly warm and it hardly shuttered at all. I'm not gonna worry about it.
I think I'll stick to M1, after all I have an extra quart left over. I'll give it a couple hundred more miles then change it, that should flush out any left over gear oil that was in it. Maybe with nothing but 10w30 in it the shutter will stop. If not, I'll ride it out and fix it when it breaks!
The ax15 really does have a good reputation, I'm real pleased with how it's geared, it works great in 4LO, especially on hill climbs.
That does sound strange about the plugs and wires but it makes sense. I haven't changed them yet, I've been too busy changing the fluids! LOL! They are on my to do list though. Thanks again!

LiftedinCo 03-14-2011 06:17 PM

If I am reading correctly...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil05LJ (Post 1113541)
Long story made somewhat short... I bought this TJ in Jan. and the first thing I did was change all the fluids. I put Redline 75w90 in it that was supposedly intended for diffs only in the tranny, my bad ($60 mistake:( ) 2nd and 4th started grinding shortly after (50 miles or so) so I changed it 2 weeks ago and used 10w30 Mobil 1 synthetic. Still some resistance with 2nd and 4th but no big deal, it was much better right away. The problem now after 200 miles with the M1 is that it has started "shuttering" in 1st gear when taking off cold, it shakes the whole Jeep. The shutter/ shimmy/ shake goes away after a few take offs and its gone once it warms up but it is progressively getting worse. Granted it's a 99 with 141k, I have no idea what has been replaced and what is still OEM. I'm really frustrated, I thought I was doing the right thing to preserve my equipment but it seems like I've opened a can of worms and it's costing a lot of hard earned dollars. Any suggestions? Thank you very much, signed, distraught Phil

Are you stating you put 10W-30 engine oil in the your AX-15, which requires a 75W-90 API Grade GL-5, Lubricant, where API = American Patrolmen Industry, API Category GL-5 designates the type of service characteristic of gears, particularly hypoids in automotive axles under high-speed and/or low-speed, high-torque conditions.

If that is the case, google lubricants and I bet you put engine oil in the engine and gear lub in the gear box...

Muddr1 03-14-2011 06:41 PM

From everything I have read, the ax-15 takes 10-30 synthetic engine oil. I changed mine out last summer and has been fine.
I would try another oil change to make sure you have everything out of there.

pokey 03-14-2011 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiftedinCo (Post 1116595)
Are you stating you put 10W-30 engine oil in the your AX-15, which requires a 75W-90 API Grade GL-5, Lubricant, where API = American Patrolmen Industry, API Category GL-5 designates the type of service characteristic of gears, particularly hypoids in automotive axles under high-speed and/or low-speed, high-torque conditions.

If that is the case, google lubricants and I bet you put engine oil in the engine and gear lub in the gear box...

10w 30 motor oil is now recommended for the AX15. The original Mopar lube for that transmission has been discontinued, the dealer will now sell you 10w 30 motor oil for the AX15. Gear oil viscosity is rated differently than motor oil, and 75-90 gear oil is about the same as 10-30 motor oil. And the AX15 requires GL 4, NOT GL-5.

And Phil, good luck with your tranny. The shudder seems more like a clutch issue, although it is odd it started happening right after the fluid change.

Phil05LJ 03-14-2011 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiftedinCo

Are you stating you put 10W-30 engine oil in the your AX-15, which requires a 75W-90 API Grade GL-5, Lubricant, where API = American Patrolmen Industry, API Category GL-5 designates the type of service characteristic of gears, particularly hypoids in automotive axles under high-speed and/or low-speed, high-torque conditions.

If that is the case, google lubricants and I bet you put engine oil in the engine and gear lub in the gear box...

I know it's sounds crazy to put motor oil in the tranny but I have done a lot of research, especially on WF before making the switch. 10w30 is recommended, so is gear oil, I guess its a "pick your poison" decision. I'm committed to the 10w30, my tranny has some miles on it so my expectations are not high. It may buy me some time, it may not, just have wait and see.

Phil05LJ 03-14-2011 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muddr1
From everything I have read, the ax-15 takes 10-30 synthetic engine oil. I changed mine out last summer and has been fine.
I would try another oil change to make sure you have everything out of there.

Yeah, although it's not my favorite thing to do on the weekend, another hopefully final change is my plan.

LiftedinCo 03-14-2011 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokey (Post 1116672)
10w 30 motor oil is now recommended for the AX15. The original Mopar lube for that transmission has been discontinued, the dealer will now sell you 10w 30 motor oil for the AX15. Gear oil viscosity is rated differently than motor oil, and 75-90 gear oil is about the same as 10-30 motor oil. And the AX15 requires GL 4, NOT GL-5.

And Phil, good luck with your tranny. The shudder seems more like a clutch issue, although it is odd it started happening right after the fluid change.

According to the 1997 Jeep Service Manual, purchased through Chrysler, section/page 21-35 Transmission Lubricant is listed as Mopar 75W-90 API Grade GL-5 gear Lub...

In addition, googled "jeep Wrangler AX15 transmission lub" and everything points to 75W-90 API Grade GL-5 gear Lub...Although I will continue to look into this and inquire with other Gear Heads...

After driving it for 150,000 miles see no need to change...I shift gears up & down except into 1st at a dead stop with out the clutch and mine has no shake or shimmy...my lub is doing something right...Guess I will still stick with Amsoil...

pokey 03-14-2011 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiftedinCo (Post 1116696)
According to the 1997 Jeep Service Manual, purchased through Chrysler, section/page 21-35 Transmission Lubricant is listed as Mopar 75W-90 API Grade GL-5 gear Lub...

In addition, googled "jeep Wrangler AX15 transmission lub" and everything points to 75W-90 API Grade GL-5 gear Lub...Although I will continue to look into this and inquire with other Gear Heads...

But I will still stick with Amsoil gear lubs...after 150,000 miles see no need to change...

Believe it or not that was wrong info in the '97 FSM. My '99 says GL-3, which is impossible to find. Redline MTL is GL-4, backwards compatible meaning it's fine for GL-3 applications. GL-5 has too much sulpher in it, bad for the AX15 syncros.

Haynes and Chilton will say to use GL-5, which is why they're useless. I'm not familiar with the Amsoil lubes.

Phil05LJ 03-14-2011 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokey

10w 30 motor oil is now recommended for the AX15. The original Mopar lube for that transmission has been discontinued, the dealer will now sell you 10w 30 motor oil for the AX15. Gear oil viscosity is rated differently than motor oil, and 75-90 gear oil is about the same as 10-30 motor oil. And the AX15 requires GL 4, NOT GL-5.

And Phil, good luck with your tranny. The shudder seems more like a clutch issue, although it is odd it started happening right after the fluid change.

Hey pokey, long time no see!! Haha. It really is a quinkydink that it started after the fluid change. It most likely will end up being a clutch issue that probably won't need addressing anytime soon. I've been fairly easy on it. Like I said, thinking back to when I noticed it the most it was raining and/or it was really damp. I fixed my t-case shift linkage over the weekend that rattled really loudly when taking off, now that the noise is gone, I'm getting picky about the vibes, before, it was hard to tell if the noise and vibration were connected to each other! Ahhhh, ya got love the "Jeep thing"! $100 here, $100 there...LOL! BTW, is the new cafe open yet? :)

pokey 03-14-2011 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil05LJ (Post 1116743)
Ahhhh, ya got love the "Jeep thing"! $100 here, $100 there...LOL! BTW, is the new cafe open yet? :)

Yeah, no kiddin. We all love 'em but it seems like just when we solve one problem another one pops up :(. And I still haven't got the green light for the cafe, I'll check into it again. I'll keep you posted :)

Phil05LJ 03-14-2011 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiftedinCo (Post 1116696)
According to the 1997 Jeep Service Manual, purchased through Chrysler, section/page 21-35 Transmission Lubricant is listed as Mopar 75W-90 API Grade GL-5 gear Lub...

In addition, googled "jeep Wrangler AX15 transmission lub" and everything points to 75W-90 API Grade GL-5 gear Lub...Although I will continue to look into this and inquire with other Gear Heads...

After driving it for 150,000 miles see no need to change...I shift gears up & down except into 1st at a dead stop with out the clutch and mine has no shake or shimmy...my lub is doing something right...Guess I will still stick with Amsoil...

Alittle off the subject...Shifting without the clutch?!:eek: I tried that...once...it didn't work so well! I'm not doubting it can be done but why? What's the advantage?

Phil05LJ 03-14-2011 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokey (Post 1116758)
Yeah, no kiddin. We all love 'em but it seems like just when we solve one problem another one pops up :(. And I still haven't got the green light for the cafe, I'll check into it again. I'll keep you posted :)

Yeah I know it. Keep me posted, I' ve been ready to order for a while now! I guess I'll have a snack until then...:popcorn:.

LiftedinCo 03-14-2011 08:03 PM

It's easy as 2 Pi Around the Circle...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil05LJ (Post 1116785)
Alittle off the subject...Shifting without the clutch?!:eek: I tried that...once...it didn't work so well! I'm not doubting it can be done but why? What's the advantage?

A - my left leg was severed and reattached in a motorcycle accident 24 years ago, and there are days when it just don't work...

B - because I can

C - don't know how to drive an automatic...what do you do with your left leg and right arm? Thus you drive a stick...

01WranglerGuy 03-14-2011 08:23 PM

Just hope that its not the synchros in the tranny. Mine was doing the same thing with the grinding while shifting, but only at high rpm's. I thought that it was the clutch but ended up have'n to replace the transmission. Does it grind while your changing gears at low rpm's? If not then its probly not the syncros going out.

Phil05LJ 03-14-2011 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiftedinCo (Post 1116865)
A - my left leg was severed and reattached in a motorcycle accident 24 years ago, and there are days when it just don't work...

B - because I can

C - don't know how to drive an automatic...what do you do with your left leg and right arm? Thus you drive a stick...

I'm at a loss for words... Forgive me for asking what the advantage is.:redface: Way to make do with what you have :thumb:. I'd do the same as I've grown to hate the auto in my LJ, 4 speed pos geared for a golf cart! LOL! Hang in there and shift away!

Phil05LJ 03-14-2011 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 01WranglerGuy (Post 1116919)
Just hope that its not the synchros in the tranny. Mine was doing the same thing with the grinding while shifting, but only at high rpm's. I thought that it was the clutch but ended up have'n to replace the transmission. Does it grind while your changing gears at low rpm's? If not then its probly not the syncros going out.

It still gives a little grind in 2nd from time to time and 4th is stubborned but doesn't grind, all of the shifts are at lower RPM, 2500 or less and I've learned to "baby it into gear". The worst grinding was with the wrong fluid, it's much better with 10w30 now, just the shutter has been the latest issue. I'm gonna live with it for now and see how it does after draining the 10w30 AGAIN, and reloading with fresh M1 synthetic.

LiftedinCo 03-15-2011 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil05LJ (Post 1116925)
I'm at a loss for words... Forgive me for asking what the advantage is.:redface: Way to make do with what you have :thumb:. I'd do the same as I've grown to hate the auto in my LJ, 4 speed pos geared for a golf cart! LOL! Hang in there and shift away!

Don't be & no need for forgiveness...your comment was legitimate...I believe in speaking ones mind that you did and your comment was truthful...I am not PC and don't expect the next to be...Just keep on Jeepen...and Yes, Hate Slushboxes...After 20+ years of hearing "why with your leg do you drive a standard shift"...I respond with..."automatic transmissions are for women and sissies"...they never ask that question again or make another comment especially Dudes that can't drive a stick...Sometimes harsh is the only way...those that don't like std or never learned how to...just don't understand how much fun it is to crunch gears...

Being old school aka "Old Fart", it is my opinion, if you have an older AX15 and it's been operating with gear oil...put a full synthetic gear lub in...which helps with fuel economy...considering the mechanical components ware patterns are consistent with gear lub...problems can/may be avoided...if new...go for it...Just one persons opinion...we all know about opinions...

It's nice to learn new things...go figure engine oil in a gear box...took me by surprise...

01WranglerGuy 03-15-2011 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil05LJ (Post 1116948)
It still gives a little grind in 2nd from time to time and 4th is stubborned but doesn't grind, all of the shifts are at lower RPM, 2500 or less and I've learned to "baby it into gear". The worst grinding was with the wrong fluid, it's much better with 10w30 now, just the shutter has been the latest issue. I'm gonna live with it for now and see how it does after draining the 10w30 AGAIN, and reloading with fresh M1 synthetic.

Good luck, i hope that it helps with the problem.

Sdavidf 02-04-2012 03:16 PM

Just found this online
 
Site: Common TJ Maintenance Info

Quote: Manual Transmission - If you have a TJ with either an AX-5 or an AX-15 transmission, do NOT follow the transmission*fluid recommendations in the owner's manual.* It is a misprint.* The factory service manual (FSM) does have the correct information in it.* That being said, I use Redline MT-90 or Redline MTL fluid in my AX-15.* The GL-3/4 rating of this fluid means it does not have the harmful additives that cause synchronizer wear as experienced when running GL-5 rated fluids.* When I switched to MT-90 (shortly after getting the TJ), the cold weather 1st to 2nd gear shift problem that the AX-15 is well noted for became virtually a non-issue.* After running MT-90 for several years, I decided to try their MTL fluid.* MTL is almost the same except that it is slightly lighter weight.* I found that the last little bit of cold weather shifting problem that MT-90 almost cleared up was gone when MTL was used.* Redline is a very respected name and I don't think you can go wrong using it.* I've never found it in the local AutoZone, Pep Boys, etc. type stores.* I pick mine up from a performance shop that caters to the speed crowd.* You can find it on-line too.* I believe Summit Racing carries Redline Oils.* It is highly unlikely you will find Redline at the usual auto parts store (AutoZone, Checker, PepBoys, etc).*

TJWenatchee 02-04-2012 05:29 PM

Brand New (not rebuilt) AX15 installed in September. Recomended lube: Red Line Manual Transmission (MT) 90W Gear Oil. Smooth a shift as one can get from the AX15. :)

Ordered from Amazon.com for a good price.

uptime 02-04-2012 07:36 PM

I just had all the fluids changed in my '97 TJ which included GL-5 full synthetic 75w-90 oil. It shifts great! The differentials also got a friction modifier since both axles are limited slip. The only transmission that gets motor oil is my Suzuki motorcycle.

sawick420 04-13-2012 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiftedinCo (Post 1116595)
Are you stating you put 10W-30 engine oil in the your AX-15, which requires a 75W-90 API Grade GL-5, Lubricant, where API = American Patrolmen Industry, API Category GL-5 designates the type of service characteristic of gears, particularly hypoids in automotive axles under high-speed and/or low-speed, high-torque conditions.

If that is the case, google lubricants and I bet you put engine oil in the engine and gear lub in the gear box...

GL-5 will corrode your gears in your transmission. It's all over the forum. It was a misprint.

DevilDogDoc 04-13-2012 08:59 PM

It will eat the brass in the synchros causing bad shifting.


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