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-   -   front adjustable LCA question (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f202/front-adjustable-lca-question-863442.html)

Barmanvarn 08-25-2014 05:28 PM

front adjustable LCA question
 
I'm currently running stock LCAs with the drop brackets.

If I installed adjustable arms, would the drop brackets no longer be needed?

My guess is no since the new arms would give me the correct pinion but wanted to check.

nwbronco 08-25-2014 05:31 PM

You are correct. The Adjustable control arm affords the same pinion alignment/caster setting as the drop bracket.

Bob K.

Barmanvarn 08-25-2014 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwbronco (Post 12923546)
You are correct. The Adjustable control arm affords the same pinion alignment/caster setting as the drop bracket. Bob K.

Thanks. Just didn't want to assume.

Hoping to slowly add adjustables as I can in prep for some taller coils.

nwbronco 08-25-2014 05:46 PM

I hear you. Manufacturers are pretty proud of their JK gear. If you are handy you might try RuffStuff Specialties. He is a vendor on here and can provide some weld up its for the front uppers.

Bob K.

spinlock 08-25-2014 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwbronco (Post 12923546)
You are correct. The Adjustable control arm affords the same pinion alignment/caster setting as the drop bracket.

Bob K.

Not exactly.

The brackets are designed to correct the CA geometry so the CA's operate at a lower angle reducing Bump Steer. As the geometry is corrected the differential is rotated partially back to its original position so Caster angle is improved.

To correct the Caster angle to spec you need adjustable CAs. Ideally you want both. The improvement provided by having both mods increases with the size of the lift.

Barmanvarn 08-25-2014 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinlock (Post 12923874)
Not exactly. The brackets are designed to correct the CA geometry so the CA's operate at a lower angle reducing Bump Steer. As the geometry is corrected the differential is rotated partially back to its original position so Caster angle is improved. To correct the Caster angle to spec you need adjustable CAs. Ideally you want both. The improvement provided by having both mods increases with the size of the lift.

Noted.

I guess I'd try without first and see how it drives. Can always add them back.

Will be a bit before I lift more as it'll take a bit to get more components installed first.

nwbronco 08-25-2014 06:00 PM

Good point. Wouldn't moving the mounting point further back accomplish the same thing?

Bob K.

kjeeper10 08-25-2014 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinlock (Post 12923874)
Not exactly. The brackets are designed to correct the CA geometry so the CA's operate at a lower angle reducing Bump Steer. As the geometry is corrected the differential is rotated partially back to its original position so Caster angle is improved. To correct the Caster angle to spec you need adjustable CAs. Ideally you want both. The improvement provided by having both mods increases with the size of the lift.

Pretty much ..
Bump steer is caused by bad steering angles (drag link and track bar)
Brackets change instant center and smoothen out the ride over bumps.

You could keep them at stock length or custom tune pinion/caster. I'm running uppers at stock length with Rancho's brackets, Lowers very soon.

kjeeper10 08-25-2014 06:23 PM

Brain,
I would keep them at stock length if running the brackets. The brackets adjust caster with the upper arms. The lower is dropped straight down.
Adding length will Increase driveline angle as well as caster. I would only custom set running both sets.

kjeeper10 08-25-2014 06:26 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by nwbronco (Post 12923842)
I hear you. Manufacturers are pretty proud of their JK gear. If you are handy you might try RuffStuff Specialties. He is a vendor on here and can provide some weld up its for the front uppers. Bob K.

$100 and a set of stock arms :D

nwbronco 08-25-2014 06:34 PM

I have bought from him before. And will again. Thanks for posting that up Ken. You weld everything up yourself?

kjeeper10 08-25-2014 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nwbronco (Post 12924802)
I have bought from him before. And will again. Thanks for posting that up Ken. You weld everything up yourself?

No sir .. Friend Mike did.
Great kit. Just make sure all the coating is off the stock arm. When he slid the DOM over, it did not seat flush to the axle joint side.
Because I kept the brackets, the arms needed to adjust to stock or less. One arm was almost .400 too long. I machined them down, sandblasted and painted (3 coats) and they came out great.
I did make a post in RS's thread asking if it was possible to run a hex bung. He agreed and was supposed to bring it up to Dan. That would be my only compliant. Tightening the jam nut while trying to keep the joint positioned right. A hex bung would allow another wrench or vise to help tighten/position the joint without moving :thumb:
Call me crazy but there was a handling difference over the stock soft rubber bushings.

Barmanvarn 08-25-2014 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjeeper10 (Post 12924610)
Brain, I would keep them at stock length if running the brackets. The brackets adjust caster with the upper arms. The lower is dropped straight down. Adding length will Increase driveline angle as well as caster. I would only custom set running both sets.

I knew you'd stop by Ken. :thumb:

So I can go to adjustables and remove the brackets? I'm hoping to add more lift soon so need the adjustable lowers. Just trying to plan it all out. Sorry for my being confuzzed. :)

kjeeper10 08-25-2014 09:26 PM

Of coarse. What others including myself are saying. No bolt on adjustable/fixed arm will provide the ride drop brackets provide. Lower arms alone adjust caster angle .. That's it. Drop brackets correct geometry (similar to a long arm) at expense of ground clearance. Installing a lift our main goal is caster angle. Lowers alone will do that for you (set to 23 1/8 eye to eye)

Edit: I should if added

With most people, it's either or. Not too many run both although possible,
I've only seen people with brackets install arms. Never once the other way around.

Barmanvarn 08-25-2014 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjeeper10 (Post 12929250)
Of coarse. What others including myself are saying. No bolt on adjustable/fixed arm will provide the ride drop brackets provide. Lower arms alone adjust caster angle .. That's it. Drop brackets correct geometry (similar to a long arm) at expense of ground clearance. Installing a lift our main goal is caster angle. Lowers alone will do that for you (set to 23 1/8 eye to eye) Edit: I should if added With most people, it's either or. Not too many run both although possible, I've only seen people with brackets install arms. Never once the other way around.

Gotcha. Love the handling the drop brackets gave me but geez are those things hideous. LOL

spinlock 08-26-2014 02:52 PM

I do not concur about using one or the other.

The two parts are designed to solve different problems, although they have secondary benefits. Adjustable lower LCAs rotate the diff to correct Caster angle. The drop brackets lower the angle of incidence of the CAs by a fixed amount which is not equal to the amount of lift. Ideally, you want both parts for best suspension performance. This becomes more true the taller the lift.

kjeeper10 08-26-2014 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinlock (Post 12945618)
I do not concur about using one or the other. The two parts are designed to solve different problems, although they have secondary benefits. Adjustable lower LCAs rotate the diff to correct Caster angle. The drop brackets lower the angle of incidence of the CAs by a fixed amount which is not equal to the amount of lift. Ideally, you want both parts for best suspension performance. This becomes more true the taller the lift.

I think we all agreed to that.
As mentioned ... I will be running both.

Barmanvarn 08-26-2014 09:02 PM

For me, I'll probably go w/ adjustable in the stock location and set them for the correct caster and if that doesn't work or I don't like it, I can put the drops back in and set the adjustment for that. Can't hurt to try. LOL

kjeeper10 08-27-2014 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barmanvarn (Post 12954329)
For me, I'll probably go w/ adjustable in the stock location and set them for the correct caster and if that doesn't work or I don't like it, I can put the drops back in and set the adjustment for that. Can't hurt to try. LOL

Lowers .. Set to 23 1/8 This number works with or without uppers. Obviously and mentioned. Set to stock 22 5/8 running the brackets.

Barmanvarn 08-27-2014 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjeeper10 (Post 12962778)
Lowers .. Set to 23 1/8 This number works with or without uppers. Obviously and mentioned. Set to stock 22 5/8 running the brackets.

Thanks Ken. Will be a little while before I do this. Still working out some things on my new bumper/carrier.


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