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-   -   Coolant - how important to stay factory? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/coolant-how-important-to-stay-factory-87849.html)

fware 04-04-2011 12:26 PM

Coolant - how important to stay factory?
 
Just bought a 2001 Sport, noticed green coolant in the radiator, pink in the overflow. Prior owner's son probably added coolant to the radiator. Is this critical, should I have it flushed right away? It's not running hot, but the weather has been cool. Thanks...

Sblanck 04-04-2011 12:41 PM

Someone put the green in my wife's liberty when she took it to one of those one hour places. I was just too busy with deadlines to do it myself and the waterpump ate itself eventually. I will not put anything in but the orange which is what Chrylser recommends. Just not worth it using those brands that say color doesnt matter. I don't know if the cause of the water pump eating itself was the wrong fluid but since its been replaced and flushed I keep the orange in it and it hasn't had any issues.

UnlimitedLJ04 04-04-2011 12:43 PM

color doesn't tell you anything.

you want to use HOAT/GO5. HOAT doesn't mix well with other stuff like OAT or Dexcool...tends to cause major issues due to chemical interaction.

drain everything and pipe in a hose flush system, like the one from Prestone. then once you're sure all the coolant has been flushed from the system, drain the water out and use HOAT coolant + distilled water. HOAT coolant = Mopar dealer or Zerex GO5 from local autoparts store. Do not use anything Prestone or non-HOAT.

jwm1986 04-04-2011 02:13 PM

House brand or prestone is all that has ever been in my chrysler/mopar engines and I have never had any trouble. Not saying it's right, but I have never heard they needed anything special.

hambubba 04-04-2011 02:16 PM

I can't find the HOAT. No stores in my area carry it. I used some storebrand (looks like Prestone) and have had no problems whatsoever. I did do a full rinse prior to adding coolant.

DevilDogDoc 04-04-2011 04:34 PM

Napa carries the G0-5.

hambubba 04-04-2011 05:03 PM

And they might... the day I needed it was a Sunday, and they were closed. I figure I could get it later. I don't plan on leaving the antifreeze in for 5 years or anything. I doubt a year will hurt me. Plan on cycling it out next fall for the HOAT if I can actually find some.

Jerry Bransford 04-04-2011 05:25 PM

Look for Zerex G-05 when you want the right HOAT coolant. There are other HOAT coolants but that one is probably a little more easily found. :)

hambubba 04-05-2011 05:51 AM

I went to four auto parts stores looking for Zerex. Nobody had seen it, and most had never heard of it. I was shocked. None of them had HOAT of any kind.

Wdkirk01 04-05-2011 06:38 AM

Prestone long life after a complete flush of the system.

Its coolant. Keep it at the right mix level. I use tap water.

Jeep runs fine. Stays cool. Does the job.

randy and teri 04-05-2011 07:43 AM

my experience says that it doesnt matter. anti-freeze is anti-freeze. i typically run whatever is cheapest in all my vehicles. i mix it myself in a second jug so one gallon makes two.
i wouldnt mix coolants, as was already said, due to chemical imcompatibilities, but otherwise it doesnt matter.
unless you live where the conditions are outside what is listed as an acceptable range on the product, then save a buck and use that saved money on a hydrometer to make sure you have it mixed correctly.
if you flush your coolant out, dont forget to remove the thermostat. then while the engine is running, have the hose running into the radiator. otherwise, you are only draining the radiator and then you will be mixing coolant. even if you run the engine, you have to wait till the thermostat opens and then the introduction of cold water from your hose will close it back up.
the other option of course would be to keep draining the radiator, filling with water, run the engine till hot, and rinse, lather, repeat until you only drain clear water.
on a final note, its too easy to remove the overflow not to do it. then you can clean it thoroughly inside and out.

UnlimitedLJ04 04-05-2011 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randy and teri (Post 1158667)
my experience says that it doesnt matter. anti-freeze is anti-freeze.

oh yea?

this is what happens when you mix the wrong types of coolant:

http://www.sancarlosradiator.com/images/dexmud31.jpg

don't play chemist. use the right HOAT in your jeep.

cork1958 04-05-2011 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnlimitedLJ04 (Post 1158730)
oh yea?

this is what happens when you mix the wrong types of coolant:

http://www.sancarlosradiator.com/images/dexmud31.jpg

don't play chemist. use the right HOAT in your jeep.

I noticed that you only pointed out the one part of what that person stated. If you read the whole post, the person also said NOT to mix the TYPES of coolant, which is correct.

I had that crap "special" coolant flushed out of my Jeep the day after I bought it 2+ years ago, solely for the reason of it not being available every where, and put the "normal" green crap in it. Everything is perfectly normal. I've also NEVER used distilled water and NEVER had any issues with coolant/radiator/water pumps either.

It DOES NOT matter which type coolant you use as long as you DO NOT mix them.

jgorm 04-05-2011 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnlimitedLJ04 (Post 1158730)
oh yea?

this is what happens when you mix the wrong types of coolant:

don't play chemist. use the right HOAT in your jeep.

It looks like they put salt water in instead of radiator fluid!

I'll play chemist, because I am a chemist! I just flushed my diesel (PITA) and I was going to stick in some "all brands all models" because I couldn't find the GO5 they spec'd out. Then I dug deeper into it and found out that diesels are different because the shock on the cylinder walls can cause cavitation bubbles. Micro cavitation bubbles implode with a tremendous force and can cause pitting in metal. I used some zerex ELC heavy duty diesel coolant.

For gasoline engines, it doesn't really matter. Dont mix them and you will be fine. Its not rocket science here people. The coolants job if primarily to prevent the fluid from freezing and boiling. It may also have some anti corrosion additives to reduce redox reactions from dissimilar metals and it might have some oxygen scavengers to also reduce redox reactions. I use regular prestone coolant in all my vehicles. When I had a GM that called for dexcool, I used that in all my vehicles (ford and jeep). I flush until the water is crystal clear before switching. Always use ultra pure water! NEVER EVER use tap water. The high conductivity (salts) will drastically increase redox reactions and cause rust and corrosion. I flush with a hose, then flush with at least 4 changes while hot with the engine running with RO water, then I use distilled water for the final fill.

randy and teri 04-05-2011 09:45 AM

thanks for taking one sentence and spinning my post completely out of context. in the future either take the time to read a persons entire post or dont bother replying. all this did was make you look dumb to everyone else that read what i had to say.
maybe now that an actual chemist said something, people will listen. its a shame when credentials have to be used in order to get people to listen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnlimitedLJ04 (Post 1158730)
oh yea?

this is what happens when you mix the wrong types of coolant:
don't play chemist. use the right HOAT in your jeep.


randy and teri 04-05-2011 09:49 AM

good point, i failed to specify that the flushing is the hose/tap water, the filling is distilled water.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgorm (Post 1158842)
It looks like they put salt water in instead of radiator fluid!


NEVER EVER use tap water. The high conductivity (salts) will drastically increase redox reactions and cause rust and corrosion. I flush with a hose, then flush with at least 4 changes while hot with the engine running with RO water, then I use distilled water for the final fill.


UnlimitedLJ04 04-05-2011 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randy and teri (Post 1158864)
thanks for taking one sentence and spinning my post completely out of context. in the future either take the time to read a persons entire post or dont bother replying. all this did was make you look dumb to everyone else that read what i had to say.
maybe now that an actual chemist said something, people will listen. its a shame when credentials have to be used in order to get people to listen.

wow...I did read your post...I was trying to support your point...

and btw, anti-freeze isn't anti-freeze, depending how your cooling system is designed...as the actual chemist just pointed out with regard to his diesel. (btw, i've studied more chemistry & materials science than most). use whats spec'ed for your vehicle. Jeep's call for HOAT.

Jerry Bransford 04-05-2011 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wdkirk01 (Post 1158621)
I use tap water.

In some parts of the country without a lot of dissolved mineral content in the water, tap water is fine.

But in most parts of the country, tap water has significant amounts of dissolved minerals in it which eventually start leaving hard water deposits inside the radiator. Those deposits will, over time, build up to the point they impede flow through the radiator which can drastically decrease its ability to cool. Radiator shops make a good living getting rid of mineral buildups by combining mechanical means called "rodding out" with mild acids that dissolve the remaining hard water deposits. Which would never have been required at all if only the owner had simply not used tap water in his radiator.

The simple and inexpensive use of distilled water, which has zero mineral content, to mix with the coolant prevents that. At cost of a couple bucks and a trip to the grocery store to buy enough distilled water to mix with the coolant to give the right ratio which is typically 50:50, it's an easy and very inexpensive way to extend the life of the radiator and prevent that hard water buildup.

randy and teri 04-05-2011 11:12 AM

upon rereading your post, i see what your intentions were, though by removing most of what i said, it can appear to go either way. i wasnt the only one that thought so, however, i did react hastily and now understand.
studying something doesnt make one an expert and you just did it again, referencing something someone said while eliminating the main body of it. the chemist you refer to clearly pointed out that his diesel is completely different than a gasoline engine and this same chemist agreed with me that it doesnt matter what you use.
you really need to stop paraphrasing people's quotes.

as for mineral content, yes, you can have all sorts of things in your water. i have a well and as such, have our water tested so i know whats in mine, plus a home filtration system, but if i had city water it would be completely different and i would have no idea what i had.


Quote:

Originally Posted by UnlimitedLJ04 (Post 1158893)
wow...I did read your post...I was trying to support your point...

and btw, anti-freeze isn't anti-freeze, depending how your cooling system is designed...as the actual chemist just pointed out with regard to his diesel. (btw, i've studied more chemistry & materials science than most). use whats spec'ed for your vehicle. Jeep's call for HOAT.


freeskier 04-05-2011 11:28 AM

Dexcool and G-05 are the same color, but should NOT be mixed. You can't make vague statements because people associate type with color.

DevilDogDoc 04-05-2011 11:29 AM

Not looking to pick a fight but early TJ's used the old green stuff and newer ones take HOAT, was something changed in our cooling system that requires it? It seems that when it comes to cooling system parts they list 97-06 so besides the longer change intervals is anything different? I know some cars like BMW require the HOAT because of the aluminum heads and so forth but on our cast iron pigs?

freeskier 04-05-2011 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilDogDoc
Not looking to pick a fight but early TJ's used the old green stuff and newer ones take HOAT, was something changed in our cooling system that requires it? It seems that when it comes to cooling system parts they list 97-06 so besides the longer change intervals is anything different? I know some cars like BMW require the HOAT because of the aluminum heads and so forth but on our cast iron pigs?

Pretty much because of the longer change interval. If you completely flush the green stuff out of an older jeep you can switch over to HOAT as long as you use chryslers G-05.

TheTJRod 04-05-2011 11:36 AM

"Zerex G 05 is a
nitrite containing coolant designed to protect diesel engine
cylinder liners from cavitation."


From
"Prestone utilizes Organic Acid Technology (OAT). Ford and DaimlerChrysler vehicles of recent vintage have antifreeze/coolant that utilizes Hybrid Organic Acid Technology (HOAT), and Ford and DaimlerChrysler specifications call for HOAT antifreeze/coolants in their vehicles. Ford and DaimlerChrysler account for a significant number of vehicle sales in the United States, and their specifications requiring HOAT antifreeze/coolants, as well as their warnings to consumers about possible damage if OAT antifreeze/coolants are used."

"The panel recommends that Honeywell discontinue its claims that Prestone can be used in vehicles of "all makes, all models," and also that Honeywell discontinue its claims that Prestone can be mixed with any other antifreeze/coolant."

From
"While there are some minor variations, three basic types of coolant are available today: Inorganic Additive Technology (IAT), Organic Additive Technology (OAT) and Hybrid Organic Additive Technology (HOAT).To some extent, each will work in any cooling system, but each has been developed to meet car manufacturers’ specific needs for warranty and/or maintenance intervals. Filling a vehicle that was designed for one type of coolant with another type can sometimes cause problems, and you shouldn’t expect the same corrosion protection as the factory fill."

"The IAT coolants have been around for generations. They contain silicates that form a protective barrier on everything in the cooling system, even rubber hoses. The newer OAT coolants work very differently. Aluminum and ferrous metals form a surface-layer of corrosion in the presence of moisture, even the little bit of moisture in the air. OAT coolants anneal this metal-oxide layer into a thin surface coating that protects against further corrosion.With either type of inhibitor, there must be enough in the coolant solution to occasionally re-establish the barrier as needed."

"Silicates plate out quickly on metal engine parts; thus, the silicates in a coolant solution can drop to less than 20 percent of the starting level in less than 10,000 miles. Another problem with silicates is that, under certain conditions, they can drop out of solution and form minute deposits. If this occurs between a shaft and seal, the resulting abrasion will eventually cause a leak. In a cooling system that turns off coolant flow to the heater core when the heater is not in use, silicates can form a gummy deposit that, over the course of a summer season, might clog the core tubes."

"These are the hybrid coolants (HOAT) that use both silicate and organic acid corrosion inhibitors, and one of them is currently the factory fill on all Ford and Chrysler vehicles with gasoline engines."

"Those last two words, “as directed,” are more important now than ever, because it’s difficult to know which coolant technology belongs in which vehicle. Look up the coolant specifications in a factory manual or information system, and you’re most likely to see a part number or proprietary name such as “Toyota Engine Coolant or equivalent.” Because few independent shops buy their coolant from auto dealers, most of us have come to rely on color to identify the coolant. This, however, is a bad idea, because raw coolant has no color at all. Every manufacturer adds color to the coolant as a dye marker, and they can add any color they want. In fact when red (heavy-duty) and orange (automotive) non-IAT coolants started selling well, some companies began to add similar colors to their coolants with conventional inhibitors and increased their prices. Also, there are green coolants from other countries that are more like OAT or hybrids than IAT coolants."

"The IAT coolants intended for heavy-duty diesel engines range from blue to green to purple, and hybrids might be any color at all. Some companies are now dying their coolants yellow regardless of the technology and indicating that it can be “mixed” with any other technology."

I know it's a book but I took most of what you need to know from sources and placed it on one post. I remember reading about why we need HOAT and no others because of the seals and cooling components would be damaged if other were used. People have used other coolants without ill effects on here but I am not chancing anything and will use the HOAT coolant that you can find at Napa.

DevilDogDoc 04-05-2011 11:40 AM

I was actually thinking the other way. I like to flush and fill my coolant with the green every couple of years, not a fan of leaving coolant in there for 4-5 years. $40 every two years is cheap insurance for my cooling system. Plus my 97 runs the green stuff anyway so why not?

pokey 04-05-2011 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnlimitedLJ04 (Post 1158893)
Jeep's call for HOAT.

I think the reason later Jeeps call for HOAT is because its more "environmentally friendly". Thats it.
My '99 has the green stuff. And the plastic time bomb radiator.:(

Jerry Bransford 04-05-2011 11:43 AM

Zerex claims to be the OE manufacturer for Chrysler's G-05 coolant. It's believable to me.

Also, I'm thinking Chrysler may have switched from the IAT coolant my '97 TJ came filled with to HOAT due to the aluminum radiator core.

DevilDogDoc 04-05-2011 11:46 AM

I always thought all TJ's came with aluminum rads? Didn't DC change the spec in like 2002?

Jerry Bransford 04-05-2011 11:51 AM

Yep all TJs have always come with aluminum core radiators. I was just thinking perhaps the previously spec'd IAT coolant didn't work so well with the aluminum core. I don't have a clue why the switch from IAT to HOAT occurred, that was simply a guess on my part. Perhaps it was simply that HOAT is supposedly more environmentally friendly?

meyers 04-05-2011 11:55 AM

When I installed my new radiator I did a complete system flush before I pulled the old one. Then when I refilled it with the new radiator in place, used a 50/50 mix of Pres-tone Yellow Jug green in color fluid and distilled water haven't had any issues.

UnlimitedLJ04 04-05-2011 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford (Post 1159086)
Yep all TJs have always come with aluminum core radiators. I was just thinking perhaps the previously spec'd IAT coolant didn't work so well with the aluminum core. I don't have a clue why the switch from IAT to HOAT occurred, that was simply a guess on my part. Perhaps it was simply that HOAT is supposedly more environmentally friendly?

The switch occured due to environmental considerations. HOAT has better anti-corrosion components and doesn't deteriorate as fast as IAT.

According to Chrysler, HOAT lasts 100,000 miles before needing flush/refilled, Zerex GO5 is spec'ed for 150,000 miles (or something along those lines). Old school greeen IAT lasts 1/10th of that, (1-2 years) before needing flushed. The anti-corrosion components decompose long before the anti-freeze itself looses effectiveness.

With HOAT, the maintenance interval is much longer...meaning less toxic antifreeze/waste is disposed of, and your radiator and cooling components last longer. :dance: Which is why I keep suggesting HOAT....:wavey:


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