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-   -   Anyone Jeep Smart??? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/anyone-jeep-smart-88417.html)

tjnut213 04-08-2011 12:58 AM

Anyone Jeep Smart???
 
Have a 4" Fabtech short arm suspension lift on an 04' tj Sahara, I am not too mechanical and I just wanted to put some more heighth on without a body lift? I have heard talk about coil spacers? I really have no idea too much on the lift portion of how to raise it without spending a lot of $$$$. Any ideas is much needed :] :wavey:

ej_fireman 04-08-2011 01:01 AM

Coil spacers can add about a 2' lift on ur jeep and it's cheap that's the best I can think of

tjike 04-08-2011 01:11 AM

Coil spacers are cheap and easy. I am currently running a 4" RC lift with 3/4" coil spacers and have mild drive line vibration because I don't have a sye.

tjnut213 04-08-2011 01:13 AM

ok thank you :] but as I am not too savoy at this probably due to me only being 17 and this is my first jeep.....SYE stands for????

tjike 04-08-2011 01:20 AM

Slip yoke eliminator

tjnut213 04-08-2011 01:21 AM

Thank you do these cost much?

tjike 04-08-2011 01:27 AM

I believe they cost around $250 but I am not 100% on that since I don't have one. But I'm sure someone will chime in and help.

KidRock171 04-08-2011 01:34 AM

Coil spacers are cheap. But a body lift WILL open a doorway to future mods you almost certainly will want to do. And if you keep it low brow. 1-1.25 . It won't cause any problems It's not something anyone will notice unless they own a jeep. It won't add to any driveline problems since you already have 4 inches and no sye. It's prolly your best bet. And they're only 150 bucks. Half a days pay.

UnlimitedLJ04 04-08-2011 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjnut213 (Post 1165389)
Have a 4" Fabtech short arm suspension lift on an 04' tj Sahara, I am not too mechanical and I just wanted to put some more heighth on without a body lift? I have heard talk about coil spacers? I really have no idea too much on the lift portion of how to raise it without spending a lot of $$$$. Any ideas is much needed :] :wavey:

lots of bad info in this thread...lets fix that...

Spacers on top of lift springs is a horrible idea. You don't want to add 2" spacers on top of your 4" lift springs for multiple reasons.

First - what tire size do you expect to run? 35's are the largest you can run on stock axles (and thats modified with gears, alloy shafts & bigger brakes). You'd need 1-ton axles or other custom axles to safely run larger tires. You can fit 35's on the stock axles with proper modifications, like bumpstop extensions.

The best setup for 35s is a 4" lift, with a 1" BL. A 1" BL is barely noticable, yet allows you to run 35s, with only 2" of front bumpstop extension and ~2.5" rear bumpstop extension.

Next - coil spacers on top of lift springs will subject the springs to coil bind. This will damage your springs. Springs have a physical size. When they compress, the coils stack on top of each other. Once all the coils are completely stacked on each other they have no place to go, but if you continue to attempt to compress them the coils can stretch or deform around each other....which causes unrepairable damage.....they can even crush isolators or spacers that are on top of them (Example).

For terminology reference:
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...ech/spring.jpg

Adding spacers will only give you extra clearance at ride height but thats it. At full compression they don't do anything except reduce the physical area the spring has to compress into...unless you've extended the bumpstops the same distance as the pucks. Ideally, if you want an extra 1.5", you'd get springs 1.5" taller than what you have now. It's not intuitive, but you want to find the spring rate & unloaded length of what you have now, then back out how much height you want and what unloaded length & spring rate will get you there.

Assume a stock rig.
Now add a spacer under the isolator. What changed?
Shock length for sure. How? Longer.
Isolator to spring pad on axle for sure. How? Longer.
Bumpstop cup to spring pad? How? Longer.
Bumpstop cup to Isolator? How? Shorter.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...springtech.jpg



Remember - The only thing that governs the distance from the hub center to the fender is the bumpstop length, compressed shock length (as described below), or physical fender location.

Next-shock length. With 6" of lift, you'll need new shocks. You'll then need to adjust the bumpstop extension length accordingly. So when you combine the bumpstop extension required to avoid coil bind, and the 6" lift shocks, you'll have little uptravel. Half the point of a lift is gaining uptravel...why lift a Jeep to have barely any extra uptravel over stock?

Almost every 4" lift out there has 15" compressed length/25" extended length shocks - remember I said 13.3" was about max for putting them in the stock towers? Well, a GOOD 4" lift, with 15"/25" shocks includes 2" bumpstop extensions to prevent the 15" shocks from bottoming out. Otherwise the shocks act as bumpstops themselves, which ultimately destroys the shock or wrecks the mounts, whichever is the weakest link.

Next- SYE/CV shaft. So, at 6" of lift, we've covered you'll need the following:
1. New shocks for 6" of lift
2. more bumpstop extension to avoid coil bind & shock damage.
But theres also:
3. Longer brake lines
4. Longer sway bar links
5. Control arms -front lowers and rear lowers and uppers
6. A SYE & CV shaft

On Control arms and SYE - You'll have very bad vibrations at 6" of lift without a SYE. The vibrations will destroy your transfer case, u-joints and pinion over time. You install a double cardon shaft to fix this. The double cardan shaft then requires adjustable control arms to set pinion angle.

You'll also need front lower control arms to correct caster with that much lift. If you don't address caster, the Jeep will drive very squirrely. There will be a trade off between caster and pinion angle with 6" of lift.

And with 6" of lift on a short arm lift, the suspension is going to ride like crap and its going to flex like crap.

Remember-The only thing the spring does is keep the bumpstop cup off your axle pad. Springs and spacers don't have anything to do with tire clearance at all - except at ride height, without the Jeep in motion. Springs & spring spacers don't tell you any information about whats happening where it matters - when the suspension is cycling.


Read these:
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f5/pics...7-a-74587.html
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/om...l#post10102645
What is a CV shaft and why do I want one? - JeepForum.com
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f5/corr...gth-70047.html

So whats the solution if you want 6" of lift?
Get a 6" long arm lift, with SYE, CV shaft shaft, longer brake lines, 6" springs and upgraded steering & brakes.

or add a 1" BL & 1" MML to gain clearance for 35s with 4" lift.

flyin-lowe 04-08-2011 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnlimitedLJ04 (Post 1165612)
lots of bad info in this thread...lets fix that...

Spacers on top of lift springs is a horrible idea. You don't want to add 2" spacers on top of your 4" lift springs for multiple reasons.

First - what tire size do you expect to run? 35's are the largest you can run on stock axles (and thats modified with gears, alloy shafts & bigger brakes). You'd need 1-ton axles or other custom axles to safely run larger tires. You can fit 35's on the stock axles with proper modifications, like bumpstop extensions.

The best setup for 35s is a 4" lift, with a 1" BL. A 1" BL is barely noticable, yet allows you to run 35s, with only 2" of front bumpstop extension and ~2.5" rear bumpstop extension.

Next - coil spacers on top of lift springs will subject the springs to coil bind. This will damage your springs. Springs have a physical size. When they compress, the coils stack on top of each other. Once all the coils are completely stacked on each other they have no place to go, but if you continue to attempt to compress them the coils can stretch or deform around each other....which causes unrepairable damage.....they can even crush isolators or spacers that are on top of them (Example).

For terminology reference:
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...ech/spring.jpg

Adding spacers will only give you extra clearance at ride height but thats it. At full compression they don't do anything except reduce the physical area the spring has to compress into...unless you've extended the bumpstops the same distance as the pucks. Ideally, if you want an extra 1.5", you'd get springs 1.5" taller than what you have now. It's not intuitive, but you want to find the spring rate & unloaded length of what you have now, then back out how much height you want and what unloaded length & spring rate will get you there.

Assume a stock rig.
Now add a spacer under the isolator. What changed?
Shock length for sure. How? Longer.
Isolator to spring pad on axle for sure. How? Longer.
Bumpstop cup to spring pad? How? Longer.
Bumpstop cup to Isolator? How? Shorter.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...springtech.jpg



Remember - The only thing that governs the distance from the hub center to the fender is the bumpstop length, compressed shock length (as described below), or physical fender location.

Next-shock length. With 6" of lift, you'll need new shocks. You'll then need to adjust the bumpstop extension length accordingly. So when you combine the bumpstop extension required to avoid coil bind, and the 6" lift shocks, you'll have little uptravel. Half the point of a lift is gaining uptravel...why lift a Jeep to have barely any extra uptravel over stock?

Almost every 4" lift out there has 15" compressed length/25" extended length shocks - remember I said 13.3" was about max for putting them in the stock towers? Well, a GOOD 4" lift, with 15"/25" shocks includes 2" bumpstop extensions to prevent the 15" shocks from bottoming out. Otherwise the shocks act as bumpstops themselves, which ultimately destroys the shock or wrecks the mounts, whichever is the weakest link.

Next- SYE/CV shaft. So, at 6" of lift, we've covered you'll need the following:
1. New shocks for 6" of lift
2. more bumpstop extension to avoid coil bind & shock damage.
But theres also:
3. Longer brake lines
4. Longer sway bar links
5. Control arms -front lowers and rear lowers and uppers
6. A SYE & CV shaft

On Control arms and SYE - You'll have very bad vibrations at 6" of lift without a SYE. The vibrations will destroy your transfer case, u-joints and pinion over time. You install a double cardon shaft to fix this. The double cardan shaft then requires adjustable control arms to set pinion angle.

You'll also need front lower control arms to correct caster with that much lift. If you don't address caster, the Jeep will drive very squirrely. There will be a trade off between caster and pinion angle with 6" of lift.

And with 6" of lift on a short arm lift, the suspension is going to ride like crap and its going to flex like crap.

Remember-The only thing the spring does is keep the bumpstop cup off your axle pad. Springs and spacers don't have anything to do with tire clearance at all - except at ride height, without the Jeep in motion. Springs & spring spacers don't tell you any information about whats happening where it matters - when the suspension is cycling.


Read these:
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f5/pics...7-a-74587.html
OME 2.5", No BL - 32 or 33's????? - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
What is a CV shaft and why do I want one? - JeepForum.com
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f5/corr...gth-70047.html

So whats the solution if you want 6" of lift?
Get a 6" long arm lift, with SYE, CV shaft shaft, longer brake lines, 6" springs and upgraded steering & brakes.

or add a 1" BL & 1" MML to gain clearance for 35s with 4" lift.

You beat me to it:doh::dance:

Jerry Bransford 04-08-2011 09:38 AM

X3 on spacers being a bad idea on top of the coil springs. Not to mention the need to install a SYE kit plus the aftermarket CV (constant velocity) rear driveshaft that will be needed for that much height which will add close to $500 in parts cost to lifting it taller than your existing 4" plus the labor to install it. Actually, with your 4" of suspension lift, a SYE kit and replacement rear CV driveshaft is already highly recommended. Any more suspension lift height would make those two expensive items mandatory.

Astute offroaders know you don't need a ton of lift height to offroad the toughest trails, I would stop at the 4" you currently have or perhaps add a 1" (at the most) body lift. I'm running a 4" suspension lift, 1" body lift, 35" tires, and will do pretty much any but the most extreme level trails imaginable. Some call a few of the trails I enjoy extreme level already so you don't really need a giant lift for offroading.

KidRock171 04-08-2011 12:01 PM

Yes... Were all idiots. Apologies.


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