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-   -   Are YOU considering the popular Ford 8.8 swap? (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f210/are-you-considering-the-popular-ford-8-8-swap-92569.html)

Cons_Table 05-06-2011 03:26 PM

Are YOU considering the popular Ford 8.8 swap?
 
Good Information on 8.8 swaps From:
Tim @ 8.8 FACTS, OPINIONS & HOW-TO'S

Quote:


Lately I have been coming across a great deal of people looking to do a Ford 8.8 swap. I thought it might not be a bad idea to get a lot of the general specs for the swap gathered into one thread. I came across this on the internet that will give you a lot of general info on the Ford 8.8. Enjoy :wavey:

There are many different variations of the Ford 8.8 axle. One of them is best suited for the use in a Jeep and that would be the Explorer (or Mountaineer) 31 spline 8.8. If you have found one off a Aerostar, Mustang, F-150 etc, you should really pass it up and look for a Explorer axle if you wish to retain a similar track width on your Wrangler. Trying to start your build-up with the wrong axle will be frustrating and expensive although you may have picked it up for cheap in the beginning.

Ford 8.8 assembly specs:
Cover bolt 28-38 ft.lbs.
Pinion bearing preload 16-29 in.lbs.
Pinion bearing preload 8-14 in.lbs (used)
Ring gear backlash .008-.015
Ring gear bolt to case 70-85 ft.lbs
Side bearing caps 70-85 ft.lbs.


Explorer 8.8 Measurements:
Weight (complete assembly w/ brakes etc.): 174 lb.
O.D. of tubes: 3.250".
Tube thickness: .250" (some are .188”!)
Ring gear diameter: 8.800".
Ring gear bolts: 7/16" dia. (qty. 10).
Pinion diameter/splines: 1.625 / 30.
Axle shaft/splines: 1.320 / 31.
Rotor thickness (where it mounts to axle is .250").
Overall width 59.625" (the F8.8 is .950" narrower then a TJ Dana 35).
(The F-150 8.8 is drum brake and width WMS to WMS is 65.5”.)
Hole diameter for ABS sensor in top of housing: .811".
Bolt size (U-joint flange to yoke) is: 12 x 1.75 x 30 mm
Centerline of housing to C/L of pinion difference is 3.875" toward the P/S.
Pinion offset: P/S to C/L of Pinion, 27-3/4" (no rotor on axle), D/S to C/L of Pinion, 31-5/8" (no rotor on axle). (this measurement is 2.5" more offset to the P/S then a TJ Dana 35).

Specs:
Code Capacity Ratio
43 Open 3200 3.08
41 Open 3200 3.27
42 Open 4.10
46 Open 3.73
45 Open 3200 3.55
D4 Limited Slip 3200 3.73
D2 Limited Slip 4.10
L73 Limited Slip 3.73
L - Limited Slip Differential
C - Conventional Differential

How many splines are the axle shafts?
drivers side is 31 spline for 97 & up Mountaineer, 95 & up Explorer, 30-1/2 inch length - 5 X 4.5 inch lug pattern.

passenger side is 31 spline for 97 & up Mountaineer, 95 & up Explorer, 27-5/8 inch length - 5 X 4.5 inch lug pattern

Can I get 35 spline shafts?
Yes, with a little searching I found 28 and 33 splines too. Remeber 8.8 axles are used on many different Ford rigs. Mustangs, Rangers, F150s, Aerostar etc... different axle lengths than the Explorer so if you are looking for aftermarket products make sure you are not looking at something for a Mustang that might not fit an Explorer.

Can I use my drive shaft that I bought for my SYE/Dana 35 set-up? Yes

Is the 8.8 narrower than a Dana 35 rear axle?
Yes but not enough to make a difference when running most aftermarket wheels.1.5" shorter or so. It doesn't matter unless you try running stock rims w/12.5 or wider tires.

Are the 8.8 shafts stronger than Dana 44 shafts?
Yes, also the bearings, pinion and ring gear are also much larger.
Axle shaft Strength and output torque rating by Warn and 4 Wheeler

The axle shaft strength tested by Warn Ind:
F8.8= 6,500 (lb. ft.)
D44= 4,600-5,000 (lb. ft.)
D35C= 4,000-4,300 (lb. ft.)
-------------------------------
COT: Continuous output torque rating
MOT: Maximum output torque rating

(Numbers from January edition of Fourwheeler, page 60.)
Dana 35 rear axle COT: 870 MOT: 3480
Dana 44 rear axle COT: 1100 MOT: 4460
Ford 8.8 28spline COT: 1250 MOT: 4600
Ford 8.8 31spline COT: 1360 MOT: 5100
Dana60 semifloat COT: 1500 MOT: 5500]

Will I need that brake proportioning valve from a Rubicon? Probably not

Does the 8.8 offer more ground clearance over the Dana 35 and 44? Not under the differential but the bigger axle tubes lift the rig about 5/8 ".

Is there welding involved? Yes, but the new brackets you put on are much stronger than stock Dana’s. Not a good idea to re use your old Dana 35 brackets

Can I reuse my Dana 35 brackets? Yes, but it is not recomended. The stock Dana 35 brackets are sort of flimsy compared to the beefy aftermarket versions. Some of the brackets available are in fact for Dana 35 axles to replace the weak ones that come factory. Reusing the D-35 brackets is time consuming even if you have the right tools, not a good idea IMO

Should I weld the axle tubes to the cast housing? I would if it had been salvaged from a wrecked rig. If it is new on a crate (in my opinion) don’t bother.

Will my stock sway bar work? Yes, with a minor modification to a passenger side pinion gusset.

Do all 8.8s come with a limited slip? No, read the tag on the housing or remove the cover. 3L73 = 3.73 gears witha "L"imited slip

Where is the gear break for lockers? There is no break. Same locker for 3.73 to 6.14

Do I need a notched cross pin? Yes for 4.56-6.14 to clear ring gear, or notch a gear tooth.

More cross pin info
The 3/4 inch cross pin only fits those rears with the 28 spline count period!
Therefore, the 7/8 inch crosspin is what we are concerned with and it fits Explorer, Mountaineer, F150, and Expedition's with the 8.8 ring gear and 31 spline axles. It also come in those special Mustangs that have the 31 spline axles i.e. Cobra, Steeda, and Rousch.

The axles for Jeep conversion we are keen on are the 96 through 2001 Ford Explorer and Mercury Mountaineer with disc brakes and all that fall into this category with or without limited slip have the 7/8 inch cross pin.


Convert from a 28 to a 31 spline??? Need bigger axle tubes too! The bearing on a 31 spline is much bigger than a 28 spline bearing.

What year ford explorers do I look for as a donor for 31 spline and disc brakes? To get rear disc brakes and 31-spline axle, you need to look for a 1995 to 2001 Explorer or Mountaineer. Earlier years use drum brakes and may be 28-spline. Different vehicles may have the wrong bolt pattern, width, spline count, or brakes. A 2-door Sport Explorer may be a donor past the 2001 cut off. Also, Explorer SportTracs with production dates of August 19, 2002 through June 29, 2005 are equipped with 31-spline axles and rear disc brakes and are exactly what was in the previously listed 95-2001 Explorer. Before Aug 19, 2002, the Sport Tracs were equipped with the smaller 28-spline 8.8 axle shafts and used drum brakes. After June 29, 2005, Sport Tracs were produced with an Independent rear as found on 2002 regular Explorers.* Sport-Trac

What is so great about 8.8? Parts are everywhere, as in axle shafts, covers, brake parts etc..

What's not so great about the 8.8? Weak stock carrier, replace with a carrier type locker like ARB or Detroit (not a lunch box type) this will cure the problem.

Spun axle tubes: Simply weld the tubes into the diff housing before they spin. You are welding to cast steel so now would be the time to ask for a professional's opinion. I have heard of guys tossing the works in a oven before welding, some just go at it cold. Both say their way is right.

Thin stock diff cover: Get some armor.


What kind of locker can I get?
ARB SELECTABLE AIR LOCKER
AUBURN GEAR - ECTED ELECTRIC LOCKER
AUBURN GEAR - HIGH PERFORMANCE LIMITED-SLIP DIFFERENTIAL
AUBURN GEAR - PRO SERIES LIMITED-SLIP DIFFERENTIAL
Aussielocker.com
DETROIT LOCKER
E-Z LOCKER - FITS IN FACTORY NON-POSI CASE
EATON - ELOCKER SELECTABLE LOCKING DIFFERENTIAL
EATON - POSI LIMITED-SLIP DIFFERENTIAL
FULL SPOOL - 31 SPLINE - STEEL
MINI SPOOL - 31 SPLINE - C-CLIP COMPATIBLE - STEEL
ORIGINAL STYLE POSI - COMPLETE
POWERTRAX - LOCK-RIGHT LOCKER - FITS IN FACTORY NON-POSI CASE
TRUTRAC LIMITED-SLIP


What is the bolt pattern? 5 on 4.5” just like stock TJ/YJ wheels.

Will my Jeep lug nuts fit the 8.8? In most cases, yes.

What do I do with the speed sensor? leave it in place.

How much do they cost? Free to $1500.00 but you can find them new for around $500.00 in their stock form complete disc to disc.

What do I need for a swap into a tj?
Here are some things I used:

-TeraFlex Bracket kit
-ARB
-U.S. Gears 4.56
-Master install kit (Timken)
-Crane diff cover
-Napa brake line kit P/N 380528 (x2)
-T-hose NAPA P/N 380889
-ZJ E-brake cables (drivers and passenger side)
Mopar P/N 52008904 & 52008905
NAPA P/N 95342 (right) 95347 (left). (not for YJs)
-Driveshaft adapter: Spicer 2-2-1379
-Flange bolts Ford P/N N800594-S100 (x4)
-'03 TJ Rubicon (w/disc) proportioning valve P/N 5083808AA
-3/16" hard brake line about 40" & 18"

HELPFUL SITES be sure to check these out:
Stu-Offroad
Dome & Detour
8.8 Swap
J.E. Towle / DPG Offroad
Chris Overacker / CODE 4x4
Stormtrooper
4x4 Wire Links
The Ranger Station Tech Library
The Ranger Station Tech Library 2

YJ & XJ STUFF:

From M.O.R.E.-XJ Installation Kit P/N 98600 84-2001 XJ
-XJ E-Brake Cable Kit P/N EB3 Disc Brake F8.8 Only
-Special Yoke P/N 221379 F8.8 to 1310 U-Joint

From Dealership:
-Mopar spring perches
-Tabs for shock mounts
-ZJ ebrake cables from the dealer (for XJ install)
-Flange from spicer dealer $30 (have seen this go from $20-$50)


HELPFUL TIPS:

Stock brake cables won't come off bracket at tub. Pound a deep 13mm socket on the cable end to compress the fingers holding it in place.

Add gear oil through the abs sensor hole at the top. With an 19 degree pinion angle, I just pour three quarts in and call it full.

To replace axle seals, use the end of the removed axle shaft to pry the seal out.

Axle shaft bearings...remove the seal first as above, then slide hammer the bearings out.

Parking brake shoes can make rotor removal a pain after rust sets in, I always machine the inside lip of the rotor (drum section) about 3/8 inch from the edge to the edge about .030 deep so rust won't interfere by dragging on the shoes.

Old parking brake shoes can have the lining come loose from the metal part of the shoe...reglue with two part epoxy if new shoes not readily available...(it's only a parking brake). Parking brake shoes from Ford...$115 set! Autozone...about $20!
Note should the author of this work not wish it reproduced please contact a staff member of this forum.

Cons_Table 05-06-2011 03:32 PM

I skimmed most of this, and it all looks pretty good...if you catch an error or something out of date...post up so we have the new info.

peterc 11-07-2011 10:24 PM

Wow man! Major props! This is very thorough and will definatly help me do it if I decide to go through with it... Thanks a lot!

nastyrider17 11-07-2011 10:29 PM

Thanks for that as I have been considering doing an 8.8 swap in the back of my TJ. Do the Explorer and Mountaineer axles have the same specs?

IndyJeepMan 11-07-2011 10:47 PM

Youre too late!! :thumb:

KidRock171 11-07-2011 10:47 PM

Well done sir

Skyhawk32 11-08-2011 06:21 AM

Very well done thanks

solman 11-08-2011 07:49 AM

Good info. I love my 8.8 :)

KidRock171 11-08-2011 11:18 AM

Sticky?

Cons_Table 11-08-2011 11:26 AM

Just to be clear...this isnt mine. I came across it on another site and felt that it should be passed along. Either way, it looked like it had just about every answer to the questions that are frequently asked.

PS...got my first stickied thread :dance:

Gary2 11-09-2011 05:01 PM

If you have anu more questions I bet you can find the answer here , I did . 8.8 FACTS, OPINIONS & HOW-TO'S (F.A.Q.) - JeepsUnlimited.com Forums

Cons_Table 11-09-2011 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary2 (Post 1732870)
If you have anu more questions I bet you can find the answer here , I did . 8.8 FACTS, OPINIONS & HOW-TO'S (F.A.Q.) - JeepsUnlimited.com Forums

Good link, I believe that is where this info originated :thumb:

village idiot 11-10-2011 11:26 AM

For another good source of information, google "East Coast Gear Supply" and look at their website. I know ECGS has received a lot of props regarding the 8.8 on this forum, although I do not have personal experience with them. If I ever break my rear D44 I will strongly consider one of their bolt in 8.8's just because of all the positive words they've had on these forums.

scgeek12 11-13-2011 06:07 AM

awsome thread, thanks!

edit- wohooo my first WF supporting member post!

s14sh3r 11-13-2011 09:24 AM

The Artec truss kit for the 8.8 swap is pretty nice from what I've seen. TJ 8.8 Swap Kit with Truss

IndyJeepMan 11-13-2011 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s14sh3r
The Artec truss kit for the 8.8 swap is pretty nice from what I've seen. TJ 8.8 Swap Kit with Truss

I like it :thumb:

tanker1 11-15-2011 05:08 PM

Im about to take my 8.8 in to get my TJ brackets welded on here anyday now. I hope someone can shed some light on my question. I have a 2 in lift right now but plan on going to 3 to 4inch lift max in the near future. Would it make sense to weld my spring buckets on with some offset to get proper driveline angles and to prevent the banana effect of the rear springs once I am lifted. I hope this makes sense. I might be putting to much thought into this. Thanks for any help.

revhead347 11-25-2011 12:37 PM

On all the 8.8s I do, I weld the tubes to the pumpkin. Those tubes are just pressed in there, and can bend. It's a cheap mod at just a little bit of time and some welding wire.

Kurt

GreenJack 11-25-2011 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by village idiot (Post 1734850)
For another good source of information, google "East Coast Gear Supply" and look at their website. I know ECGS has received a lot of props regarding the 8.8 on this forum, although I do not have personal experience with them. If I ever break my rear D44 I will strongly consider one of their bolt in 8.8's just because of all the positive words they've had on these forums.

I have an East Coast Gear 8.8 in my Jeep.

I bought it this past summer. So far I am very happy with it. I had a D35 with an open 3.07. Getting rid of the 3.07's and getting an LSD (and rear disc brakes) made a huge improvement.

....

Tim 12-23-2011 10:49 AM

hi peoples!
glad you found this link handy. it was originated years ago by me and a bottle of tequila. it promptly took on a life of its own... i really needed joint custody of this thread. i should of asked to be some kind of a temporary moderator so i could weed out that thread.

i can't vouch for all the information in there but the majority seems good! there have been many-many contributors and i cant take too much credit at all. if there are any obvious errors, please let me know and i will go to ju and fix them.

btw: im doing another 8.8 for my sweet lovin woman's xj project, wish me luck!!!

Tim 01-10-2012 10:43 PM

well, it happened! got set up as a moderator over there and have started weeding out my epic 8.8 thread... so far i have deleted a couple hundred nonsense posts making it flow better. that was only the first run through. i hope to shine up the front page too...

bcpaddler 01-17-2012 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim (Post 1909518)
well, it happened! got set up as a moderator over there and have started weeding out my epic 8.8 thread... so far i have deleted a couple hundred nonsense posts making it flow better. that was only the first run through. i hope to shine up the front page too...

Post new link. :wavey:

senoJeoJ 01-25-2012 06:26 AM

axle swap info
 
here is a link with all kinds of useful info. Ford 8.8" TJ Axle Swap Information

if you have anymore questions just give Chase and the guys a call, they are good ppls.

misky 01-29-2012 08:07 PM

Great info here

mcjeeper 02-09-2012 12:46 AM

I have an 8.8 in the back. Fabricated myself. Get it out of a 95-00 explorer. They come with 3.73 or 4.10 gears with LSD. Start out with the stock pinion angle of 6 degrees and add 1 degree for every inch of lift. ex. ( a 4 inch lift should have at least a 10 degree pinion angle. You will still need adjustable upper, lower arms and track bar. Set the pinion angle about 1 degree lower to allow for axle wrap. Get the axle bracket kit from Iron Rock offroad. E brake cables can be obtained from a ZJ, they work great. Obtain a hydraulic flexible brake hose from a dodge ram, weld the diff to your tubes and get a 1310 adapter for your driveshaft. I love this axle, it will never break with tires up to 35 and locked, plus the disc brakes are a big plus. WORTH IT!!! BETTER THAN A 44!!!

spunebil 02-13-2012 06:47 PM

I have a 31 spline 8.8 with disks in rear of me cyj and have 4.10 gears.
It has lsd ( which I feel is either worn out or never really worked in first place! Lol
I can lock it if I get open carrier, but have a hp44/ff60 I want to lock (detroit) with 5.38 gears! ;)

l8nitebreakfast 03-13-2012 08:48 PM

where can I get one of these axles new?

KidRock171 03-13-2012 10:42 PM

Ecgs?

Cons_Table 03-13-2012 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KidRock171
Ecgs?

This is probably the closest u can get to new...at least that I am aware of. It all comes down to what u are willing to pay. If I am not mistaken, you can get an axle from ECGS that the only thing used is the axle housing itself. However there are many parts that will work fine even if they are used.

KidRock171 03-14-2012 01:45 AM

I figured. They seem to be the go to guys for axles and gears.


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