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Old 09-07-2019, 01:13 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by nam6869usmc View Post
I've had the 1 1/2" dead spot since I purchased my 2019 jl Sport S I put Mickey Thompson APZ P3 285/70/17's on and also installed the Teraflex Falcon Adjustable Damper>$$$$$$. My Son drove it today and was shocked how much correction it took to stay between the lines and his wife wants a Wrangler. I've read so many steering slop threads this old mans head is ready to explode. I've ran 28, 32, and now I'm running 36 psi and I see no difference, I track pretty good not very much wandering at all, just that crazy left & right 1 1/2" slop.
I tried to get some vides of the pitman arm and the drag link/tire for movement. I do have very very slight movement so it's not completely dead.
I check for loose drag link, tie rode ends and everything feels tight. Some has had a new Steering Box installed and say it fixed it, some has made a 1/8 turn adjustment on Box and fixed it. Seems like my input at the steering wheel at 12:00 doesn't give me that much output to the wheels. I know adjusting the Box is touch & go but is that really the true fix for this problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2tovBUMsPc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-hvhznFtj8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIRb2KLhmA8
Just for fun pull out a tape measure and check your toe, looks toed out to me in the picture and if so a two door will drive like shit.

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Old 09-07-2019, 01:19 AM   #92
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Had the steering damper recall done today at the dealer. Took 15 minutes. Did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for the problem. Its like they didnt even touch it. Still putting about 2 to 3" of steering input in before it will move left or right on the roadway and still doing about 2" of play left and right to keep it straight in the lane.
2018? Did you check software for vin and alignment? If you aren't going to listen to the advice give up the fight, Dealers are idiots compared to the experience on these forums.

TWO DOORS WITH 4 DOOR SOFTWARE OR BAD ALIGNMENT WILL DRIVE LIKE SHIT!!

Trackbars are easy to check, start vehicle and turn wheel 11 to 2 and have friend watch under vehicle, if trackbar is issue tires will barely move and all components relate to trackball will be dancing like a Mexican on tequila.

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Old 09-07-2019, 09:55 AM   #93
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Dealer service techs will know the difference between a Track Bar and a Drag Link.
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Old 09-20-2019, 01:45 PM   #94
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NHTSA Investigating 2018–2019 Jeep Wrangler over Frame, Steering Complaints

I was thinking about calling my dealership today to schedule my third appointment to work on steering related issues on my Wrangler and noticed this article.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...my-complaints/
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Old 09-22-2019, 11:35 AM   #95
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Steering damper and track bar replacement made minimal change, it will be interesting to see what else they are willing to offer as a fix. I can now specify it feels like any move from 12 oclock left or right past the dead spot, the steering "sticks" from that input and wants to go in that direction which results in the constant correction and the fight to keep it straight.

If you have ever been to Disneyland, it is like driving one of those cars on that ride Autopia. At least at the Disneyland ride there is a big concrete strip in the center of the road to bounce off of (because you cant keep it straight) and keeps you in the lane...
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Old 09-30-2019, 07:27 PM   #96
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After reading through several similar articles/posts (this forum, other forums as well as the NHTSA site) on the topic of loose steering at higher speeds, it seems the PCM update has the greatest potential for reducing the issue.

I've already done the updated version of the track bar at the dealership and believe the steering damper is only a bandaid if anything. However, I haven't made the appointment yet (part is backordered) for the install. When I asked the dealership service manager about the PCM flash update, he acted like he had no idea what I was talking about.

Are most of you with this "loose steering at higher speeds" issue just waiting for the "real" fix to be announced after the NHTSA investigation? I wasted so much time already taking my JL in for multiple dealership service visits without a real resolution.

Has Jeep Cares been involved with anyone who has this issue?
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Old 09-30-2019, 09:07 PM   #97
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Does that author need either (1) a refresher course on writing, and/or (2) a refresher course on Jeeps ?


"a welding problem that caused brackets attaching the front track bar . . . to separate and make the vehicle difficult to steer"
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Old 09-30-2019, 09:18 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by 2020SMSGlad View Post
If the steering wheel is not centered than the electric steering pump is going to want to run and if the toe is off then a combination of the two happening at once and the driver moving the wheel is going to amplify the problem.


If the steer ahead is 0 and the toe is correct the Jeep should drive straight down the road and the electric pump will start to engage when the driver turns the wheel and the vehicle gets to a certain speed. Otherwise the pump should not engage and the vehicle should drive straight and not wander (unless the road is very bad or you have a bad tire). Of course we are also taking in to consideration that the software is mated to the proper vehicle, a two door can't have the calibration for a four door and vice versa.


The load on the pump due to tire size etc in conjunction with the driver turning the wheel x degrees is going to engage the pump and the load and the software will decide how much assistance to give by allowing the hydraulic fluid to flow x amount or not.


Its not that difficult to understand but a centered wheel, a good alignment, and the proper software mated to the proper vehicle is paramount before you can troubleshoot the steering issue.


Dealers don't want to align because they think the alignment is right because the vehicle is new, they don't believe the software could ever have been programmed wrong

Interesting, because it seems Jeep brand vehicles come from the factory off-center, not even close to dead-centered. I wonder if one side of the house designed the electric steering to have the wheel dead-centered? While the other side of the house said the steering wheel has to be off-center, so drunk drivers will crash to the right instead of head-on?
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Old 10-01-2019, 10:35 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Htfan View Post
After reading through several similar articles/posts (this forum, other forums as well as the NHTSA site) on the topic of loose steering at higher speeds, it seems the PCM update has the greatest potential for reducing the issue.

I've already done the updated version of the track bar at the dealership and believe the steering damper is only a bandaid if anything. However, I haven't made the appointment yet (part is backordered) for the install. When I asked the dealership service manager about the PCM flash update, he acted like he had no idea what I was talking about.

Are most of you with this "loose steering at higher speeds" issue just waiting for the "real" fix to be announced after the NHTSA investigation? I wasted so much time already taking my JL in for multiple dealership service visits without a real resolution.

Has Jeep Cares been involved with anyone who has this issue?
Hi Htfan,
We certainly understand your frustration. If you would like to have your experience documented as well as be connected with a Case Specialist to work alongside your dealer, please feel free to send our team a private message.
Alex
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:01 AM   #100
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Hi Htfan,
We certainly understand your frustration. If you would like to have your experience documented as well as be connected with a Case Specialist to work alongside your dealer, please feel free to send our team a private message.
Alex
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Thank you for responding Alex. PM sent
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:14 AM   #101
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Thank you for responding Alex. PM sent
Thank you Htfan! I have received your private message and will continue assisting you from there.
Alex
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Old 10-03-2019, 11:53 AM   #102
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Alignment Can Stop Steering Wander in JL Wrangler

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Originally Posted by 2020SMSGlad View Post
You JL owners need to see if there is an alignment supplement out for your vehicles like the one I posted above for the Gladiator.

Notice the Note about Caster, caster can ruin a coil spring Jeeps ride real quick and cause it to death wobble.

You want the wheel to recoil on its own, remember that electronic steering pump is engaging and disengaging based on when that wheel gets off center. The electric pump senses center because we set it there and tell it that's center. If your steering wheel is crooked but the Jeep is driving straight the sensor thinks that's center. Its like dancing with a partner and you all have no rhythm together. that's the wander in your steering.

Hope something that I said helps at least one of you. If you are in the area come drive my Jeep and I will make yours like mine.
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Old 10-03-2019, 11:55 AM   #103
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I guess the other thing FCA might do... is... install a steering assist defeat button (like the engine stop defeat button), that would allow the driver to shut off the steering assist pump when on the highway. I would think that would stop the problem real fast. But, cost FCA a bit of money.
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Old 10-03-2019, 08:36 PM   #104
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Since a lot of people have been having problems with JL steering, I wonder if the company will offer retrofit JK steering (or better still, TJ steering)


I haven't looked under the front of a JL, so I don't know if the angles would allow it, and I imagine the retrofit would require a software flash


However, if the company offered this they would make enthusiasts happy and solve a big problem at the same time
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Old 10-11-2019, 10:55 AM   #105
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I'm no engineer or auto mechanic, but I feel that the problem is that the electric pump doesn't respond quickly to a movement to the steering wheel (within a nano second) and then it reacts after the driver increases effort. By that time, the action is too much and then the driver has to correct to the opposite direction which becomes a constant corrective procedure. I may be far off base in my thoughts, but, my 2019 JL isn't a fun drive on the interstate and my dealer doesn't care, and says it is typical of a Wrangler with electric power steering and similar tires.
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Old 10-11-2019, 11:30 AM   #106
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I just checked my damper, mine was installed with the arrow pointing to the rear

These guys can't read directions.

Steve
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Old 10-28-2019, 03:38 PM   #107
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Angry Jeep JL steering wanders, too much play

I too have the issue of the steering having too much play in it so it wanders too much. My dealer said that jeep sent out a couple of their engineers to look at 2 other jeep wranger JL's that had the same problem. Pathetically the Jeep Engineers told them that this is how it was designed. Shame on Jeep for ignoring a safety issue for many jeep owners. Clearly many jeep owners have an issue with their JL steering having too much play. The recall of the steering damper did nothing on my jeep. They also replaced the steering rod which did nothing. Now what, I have a a brand new 2018 jeep that can't steer properly. Very disappointing. This appears to be a pretty wide spread issue. Jeep needs to resolve this and stop ignoring an obvious safety issue. Anyone have any sure fire solutions for this?
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Old 10-29-2019, 09:43 AM   #108
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I too have the issue of the steering having too much play in it so it wanders too much. My dealer said that jeep sent out a couple of their engineers to look at 2 other jeep wranger JL's that had the same problem. Pathetically the Jeep Engineers told them that this is how it was designed. Shame on Jeep for ignoring a safety issue for many jeep owners. Clearly many jeep owners have an issue with their JL steering having too much play. The recall of the steering damper did nothing on my jeep. They also replaced the steering rod which did nothing. Now what, I have a a brand new 2018 jeep that can't steer properly. Very disappointing. This appears to be a pretty wide spread issue. Jeep needs to resolve this and stop ignoring an obvious safety issue. Anyone have any sure fire solutions for this?
So sorry to hear about this! When was the last time you were in at the dealer? Please feel free to send us a private message so we can discuss further.

Kaitlin
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Old 10-30-2019, 10:23 AM   #109
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So sorry to hear about this! When was the last time you were in at the dealer? Please feel free to send us a private message so we can discuss further.

Kaitlin
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The only thing that will stop the problem on all JL's is to install a steering assist defeat button to defeat the steering assist above 40 mph, or reprogram the steering assist to do that, or to engage the steering assist when the steering wheel is moved more than an inch, or two, above 40 mph.

Those are the quick fixes, that wouldn't cost CJA / JCA too much to roll out.
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Old 10-30-2019, 03:20 PM   #110
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I'm about ready for an oil change, will have the alignment etc. looked at while there. I think this is a very dangerous situation.

We all need a fix not a band aid!

Steve
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Old 10-30-2019, 03:26 PM   #111
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I wonder if they got it fixed right for the 2020's?
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Old 10-30-2019, 07:30 PM   #112
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Keep hope alive! They removed eTorque on most of the 2020s, so maybe next they'll go back to Haltenberger steering!
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Old 11-06-2019, 02:37 PM   #113
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I'm about ready for an oil change, will have the alignment etc. looked at while there. I think this is a very dangerous situation.

We all need a fix not a band aid!

Steve
A brand new experience; while driving the interstate at 70 mph I crossed a rough spot in the road and the front end felt like a "death wobble". It only lasted for a second but very uncomfortable! I then searched out a couple more rough areas while driving and made sure to cross them, happened every time

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Old 11-06-2019, 03:55 PM   #114
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I'm sorry for the people having issues.

I'm fairly certain that this is not a design issue. My 2018 2 door is fine with 22k miles, I've never had a problem. 2 fingers all the way past 80 mph and it's dead stable. I can't be the only one.

The very first thing I would do is get a full four wheel alignment. From experience, I can say that a proper alignment makes all the difference in how a vehicle drives and steers. It costs very little to have it done by a reputable shop. I would never use a dealer for this. It doesn't matter how good the equipment is if it's not set up properly.
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Old 11-07-2019, 07:23 PM   #115
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Some JL owners had their steering fixed by a dealership software flash
Pressurized and Htfan like this.
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Old 11-08-2019, 09:35 AM   #116
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Some JL owners had their steering fixed by a dealership software flash
The most common response of a fix seems to be the flash... Everything else seems to be more of a band-aid.

Something of note, Jeeps are notorious for having varying alignments right off the showroom floor. With JK's we even found some of them to be notably out of specification at times. Usually too much camber or not enough caster.

I have yet to see printouts of the alignments on these JL's with the "steering issue". Caster plays a very important part in the steering feel of a Jeep. Add that to the steering assist feature in the JL's and I think you have a melting pot of possible steering issues. It would be extraordinarily helpful to know if the Jeeps exhibiting the wander were either on the high end of factory caster or on the low end... And of course even more so if they were both high and low.

Low caster is naturally wandering due to the lack of self center effect that caster gives. High caster gives a lot of self center which can make the steering feel numb and non responsive. But add the steering assist in the JL and those normal effects could be telling the computer something and it's responding in a way that causes the feeling that many JL's are experiencing...

I'd like to see some alignment print outs.
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Old 11-08-2019, 10:16 AM   #117
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From what I can gather in researching this here and in other forums, the TSB for the flash (power steering recalibration) is TSB # 08-092-18. (please let us know if there is any additional information available on this or any other related update)

This TSB applies to vehicles manufactured between October 30, 2017 and on or before May 8, 2018 and was made in the US, this TSB applies to ALL VINs MFG in that date range.

I've escalated my steering wander issue with JeepCares and have a dealership service appointment later this month. I'm hoping to have this TSB applied to my JL on this next visit. I'll report back after this service.

Last time I dealt with a JL software issue with service for UConnect it took multiple appointments over multiple days to get it applied, even though I provided all the information for the software update on my first visit.

Here's an example of this TSB info on service paperwork applied to another JL with successful results.

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Old 11-08-2019, 01:52 PM   #118
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I'm sorry for the people having issues.

I'm fairly certain that this is not a design issue. My 2018 2 door is fine with 22k miles, I've never had a problem. 2 fingers all the way past 80 mph and it's dead stable. I can't be the only one.

The very first thing I would do is get a full four wheel alignment. From experience, I can say that a proper alignment makes all the difference in how a vehicle drives and steers. It costs very little to have it done by a reputable shop. I would never use a dealer for this. It doesn't matter how good the equipment is if it's not set up properly.
There are other forums where JL wandering is discussed at length too without any real solution. Some have had various components replaced that fixed while others had the same solution without any change. Alignment is always a good start. Mine had a slight issue that I fixed with an aftermarket front track bar. I can now drive 70+mph with just my wrist resting on top of the steering wheel. But I won't claim this will fix anyone else's issue.

Surely FCA knows the root cause but isn't addressing unless the NHTSA comes down on them based on enough complaints. Dealers are just reading codes or performing TSB fixes and probably cannot stray into critical thinking/debugging the issue since FCA won't cover that labor under warranty.
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Old 11-08-2019, 05:17 PM   #119
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I don't believe anyone thinks there is only one fix for everything concerning these JL steering issues. For some it's a steering box, others a track bar or alignment or PCM update, etc. or combination of all or some of these.

However, it's clear this newer JL steering is in need of factory assembly and/or component quality improvements. Way too many problems to be considered solid yet.
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Old 11-09-2019, 01:32 PM   #120
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Mine will be going in Monday (11/11), the wandering is one thing, this shudder/death wobble that has now appeared is another. I'm so uncomfortable with this shudder I refuse to drive highway speeds until this is looked at.

I can't understand why the JL is even being allowed to be sold with this problem, and what does this oscillation do to welds and chassis components....?


Steve

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