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Old 12-02-2019, 03:32 PM
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2 Door Gladiator?

Probably buying a 2021 Rubicon Gladiator next year. I'm really hoping they make a 2 door version, and one article I read dated 4/1/19 said FCA was going to retool the Toledo plant for just that. (Edit: just actually read it to the end and it was an April Fool's joke...bastards.)

Apparently no plans for a two door. Dammit.

Who else would buy one? I think they would sell okay.

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Old 12-04-2019, 05:56 PM   #2
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I actually started a FB page as an online petition about a week ago. However, I need to retool it because it doesn't let me promote the page.

Believe it or not, I have received negative feedback such as "two door pickups are dead". I think people can't see beyond their own neighborhood where yes, it wouldn't be a hot seller but globally, there would be enough of a demand. Toyota has a 70 series standard cab that they sell in Australia and Asia, and they seem to sell well. That's likely the only mid sized pickup in the world offered in a standard cab with solid axles.

I think it could sell in the US at about 6-9% of overall JK/JT sales. It could also be a global hot seller, and I'd bet foreign military sales could justify production.

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Old 12-04-2019, 06:00 PM   #3
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I think 6-9% of all JL/JT sales is a HUGE stretch, I think 6-9% of JT sales might be more realistic.
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Old 12-04-2019, 06:39 PM   #4
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I would be interested as long as it had a full length bed and not a shorty.
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Old 12-04-2019, 07:07 PM   #5
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They had a great Gladiator in the old days.. It was a real pickup truck not a stretched JL with a bit of an open bed in the back.

Would have been nice if they came out with a retro version of the early Gladiator.. (With the grille moderned up a bit ). I would seriously consider one since I'm in the market for a new truck right now.

But. I'm pretty sure FCA would be concerned about how it would affect Ram truck sales.
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Old 12-05-2019, 10:00 AM   #6
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Before FCA decides to spend one more dime on JT, sales have to prove themselves. We don’t yet have a good sense of where JT sales relative to target. Published sales numbers look fine, but the fact that JTs are being discounted already suggests otherwise.

The 2-door Gladiator looks great IMO. But pickup sales have been shifting from 2 to 4 doors for years. Add to that the rate at which 2-door JL is selling these days, and I doubt FCA will want to spend a dime on a 2-door JT.

I don’t see anyone being able to sell this idea internally, unfortunately.
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Old 12-05-2019, 10:37 AM   #7
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I actually started a FB page as an online petition about a week ago. However, I need to retool it because it doesn't let me promote the page.

Believe it or not, I have received negative feedback such as "two door pickups are dead". I think people can't see beyond their own neighborhood where yes, it wouldn't be a hot seller but globally, there would be enough of a demand. Toyota has a 70 series standard cab that they sell in Australia and Asia, and they seem to sell well. That's likely the only mid sized pickup in the world offered in a standard cab with solid axles.

I think it could sell in the US at about 6-9% of overall JK/JT sales. It could also be a global hot seller, and I'd bet foreign military sales could justify production.
Two door pickups are dead.

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Old 12-05-2019, 02:06 PM   #8
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Probably buying a 2021 Rubicon Gladiator next year. I'm really hoping they make a 2 door version, and one article I read dated 4/1/19 said FCA was going to retool the Toledo plant for just that. (Edit: just actually read it to the end and it was an April Fool's joke...bastards.)

Apparently no plans for a two door. Dammit.

Who else would buy one? I think they would sell okay.
Frosty the Snowman would survive summer vacation in hell before American consumers would go back to compact/midsize regular cab pickup trucks. And this is the reason no competitors I can think of still sell that configuration, except maybe Toyota and they don't count because their POS truck is a 15 year old design.

So, don't hold your breath. I don't see it ever happening again. These companies do extensive market research and they aren't going to tool up to build a vehicle that will only sell in extremely low numbers. Mark Allen from the Gladiator project even said so in some early TFL videos.
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Old 12-05-2019, 02:54 PM
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Frosty the Snowman would survive summer vacation in hell before American consumers would go back to compact/midsize regular cab pickup trucks. And this is the reason no competitors I can think of still sell that configuration, except maybe Toyota and they don't count because their POS truck is a 15 year old design.



So, don't hold your breath. I don't see it ever happening again. These companies do extensive market research and they aren't going to tool up to build a vehicle that will only sell in extremely low numbers. Mark Allen from the Gladiator project even said so in some early TFL videos.
I wonder then, how long before the 2 door Wrangler is discontinued since the 4 door has about 70% or more of the Wrangler sales? It has been the exception when it comes to the success of 2 door SUVs.

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Old 12-05-2019, 03:10 PM   #10
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I wonder then, how long before the 2 door Wrangler is discontinued since the 4 door has about 70% or more of the Wrangler sales? It has been the exception when it comes to the success of 2 door SUVs.

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Boy would I love to see the return of a 2 door bronco or tahoe! BUT, to the point of this thread, I would still not buy one at this point in my life with 3 kids climbing into the back seat on the regular.
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Old 12-05-2019, 04:58 PM   #11
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except maybe Toyota and they don't count because their POS truck is a 15 year old design.

You're almost tearing down your own case right there. Toyota absolutely doesn't count, because let's face it the design is old, the standard cab (which I do believe is discontinued) was embarrassingly ugly, and add to that their new motor in the Tacoma is a bomb. If I had a standard cab 2WD Tacoma in my driveway, my neighbors would think I'm getting a parts delivery from Autozone.

Regardless of practicality, which let's face it, Wranglers are short on to begin with, the J6 concept is a great looking truck that people would want to be seen in. Not everyone has a batch of rugrats, they get a JLU because they want the extra room to haul things because they have no other option.
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Old 12-05-2019, 05:13 PM   #12
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they get a JLU because they want the extra room to haul things because they have no other option.
Thats just not true anymore though...had you said JKU, before the Gladiator was available, I could see it. But nobody is buying a JLU over a Gladiator just to haul more stuff, but would buy a Gladiator if it was a 2 door...that logic just doesn't add up.
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Old 12-05-2019, 06:32 PM   #13
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Thats just not true anymore though...had you said JKU, before the Gladiator was available, I could see it. But nobody is buying a JLU over a Gladiator just to haul more stuff, but would buy a Gladiator if it was a 2 door...that logic just doesn't add up.

I'm talking about people who don't need four seats, want the utility of a pickup bed on the trails, and don't need a JT that's as long as a Kenworth with the overhang of a '79 LTD Wagon.

When my kids get older, I'll be in that boat. I'd love to have a pickup bed to put some drawers in, haul a bike or two, and somewhere to put my chainsaw where I won't have to smell two stroke. But I won't be getting a four-door JT. It's just too big for the kind of trails I'll be hitting.
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Old 12-05-2019, 11:35 PM   #14
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I wonder then, how long before the 2 door Wrangler is discontinued since the 4 door has about 70% or more of the Wrangler sales? It has been the exception when it comes to the success of 2 door SUVs.

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The 2-door Wrangler still exist because of its long heritage. There are people out there who consider the 2-door the only “real” Jeep.

But sales of 2-door have been declining, as a % of Wrangler sales, for the last 13 years. And this trend appears to have accelerated with JL.

We will have to see how sales of 2-door Jeeps do when JL nears the end of its cycle, around 2027. But if the current trend continues, I wouldn’t be surprised if its replacement, JM, launches as 4-door only.
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Old 12-06-2019, 08:35 AM   #15
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I'm talking about people who don't need four seats, want the utility of a pickup bed on the trails, and don't need a JT that's as long as a Kenworth with the overhang of a '79 LTD Wagon.

When my kids get older, I'll be in that boat. I'd love to have a pickup bed to put some drawers in, haul a bike or two, and somewhere to put my chainsaw where I won't have to smell two stroke. But I won't be getting a four-door JT. It's just too big for the kind of trails I'll be hitting.
IF, and that is a huge if, they were to look into and possibly pursue a 2 door Gladiator, I bet it still wouldn't be what you are looking for. My guess is it would still be dang near just as long but with a shorter cab and longer box. Much of what I am hearing out of my customers is that they like the idea of the Gladiator but it needs a bigger bed option. Diving into the 2 door truck market would be focusing primarily on it being a work truck option and nobody gets a work truck with a tiny box.

I love the passion you have behind this, but I think a Brute conversion on a 2 door is what you would have to settle for to get it...or a side by side...
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Old 12-06-2019, 09:53 AM   #16
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I wonder then, how long before the 2 door Wrangler is discontinued since the 4 door has about 70% or more of the Wrangler sales? It has been the exception when it comes to the success of 2 door SUVs.

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I've heard that 2-door Wrangler actually makes up less sales percentage than that. BUT.. with SUVs it's a different can of worms because you do still have at least 4 seats with seatbelts and dry interior cargo storage. I think that's the only reason they're hanging on.

With a pickup, 2-doors means you lose at least one seating position if not two, and you also lose all your dry cargo storage behind the seat. So, terrible configuration that Americans will no longer accept.
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Old 12-06-2019, 03:01 PM   #17
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2-door Wranglers sold nearly 50K units in 2017, over 25% of total Wrangler production. While that is a small percentage of actual Wrangler production, it's still a high number... especially considering TJ's never sold 90K units in any single year, and as low as 64k in 2002. That's why there will be 2-door units for the foreseeable future.

The JKU expanded the Wrangler into the mainstream SUV market, hence the number of Wranglers sold quadrupling. In that, the two door and four door models could nearly be considered different categories.

Granted, helping the Wrangler sell is the lack of competition. But we can point to the Toyota FJ Cruiser... probably the most capable 2-door SUV competitor to the Wrangler, and its success. They couldn't keep those on the lot and today a low mileage 2014 is worth nearly as much as the original purchase price.
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Old 12-06-2019, 05:02 PM   #18
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But we can point to the Toyota FJ Cruiser... probably the most capable 2-door SUV competitor to the Wrangler, and its success. They couldn't keep those on the lot and today a low mileage 2014 is worth nearly as much as the original purchase price.
You're right. The FJ Cruiser did so well that sales dropped so much that Toyota canceled it.

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Old 12-06-2019, 08:15 PM   #19
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2-door Wranglers sold nearly 50K units in 2017, over 25% of total Wrangler production. While that is a small percentage of actual Wrangler production, it's still a high number... especially considering TJ's never sold 90K units in any single year, and as low as 64k in 2002. That's why there will be 2-door units for the foreseeable future.

The JKU expanded the Wrangler into the mainstream SUV market, hence the number of Wranglers sold quadrupling. In that, the two door and four door models could nearly be considered different categories.

Granted, helping the Wrangler sell is the lack of competition. But we can point to the Toyota FJ Cruiser... probably the most capable 2-door SUV competitor to the Wrangler, and its success. They couldn't keep those on the lot and today a low mileage 2014 is worth nearly as much as the original purchase price.
It’s difficult to get separate sales counts between 2-door and 4-door these days. But last I recall, since JL launched, sales of 2-door were down to 20%-15% of total Wrangler sales. Sales of 2-door have been steadily declining as a % of total Wrangler sales since the 4-door was introduced.

When we look at sales of vehicles that have had 2-door and 4-door variants for a long time, like Honda Civic and Accord, the ratio we see is about 90% 4-door/10% 2-door. That seems to be those body styles’ natural sales proportion.

Will Jeep keep the 2-door the day it only accounts for 10% of Wrangler sales? They should IMO, given that the 2-door is the one that started it all. But who knows really. It will depend who is in charge and what pressures FCA is facing at that moment.
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Old 12-06-2019, 09:10 PM
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If they ever do stop making two doors, I wonder if that will increase the resale value of used two doors?

At any rate, I have dismissed the idea of getting a Gladiator for a number of reasons, and will just keep my paid for 2016 Tacoma TRD OR. However I will likely be looking very hard for a nicely restored CJ because I've never had one and I'm tired of being jeepless.

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Old 12-07-2019, 11:50 AM   #21
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Itís difficult to get separate sales counts between 2-door and 4-door these days. But last I recall, since JL launched, sales of 2-door were down to 20%-15% of total Wrangler sales. Sales of 2-door have been steadily declining as a % of total Wrangler sales since the 4-door was introduced.

When we look at sales of vehicles that have had 2-door and 4-door variants for a long time, like Honda Civic and Accord, the ratio we see is about 90% 4-door/10% 2-door. That seems to be those body stylesí natural sales proportion.

Will Jeep keep the 2-door the day it only accounts for 10% of Wrangler sales? They should IMO, given that the 2-door is the one that started it all. But who knows really. It will depend who is in charge and what pressures FCA is facing at that moment.
The 2-door Jeep is the only true Jeep.

Seriously though, I am surprised to see that 2-door Wranglers make up 15% to 20% of Wrangler sales. I've owned dozens of 2-door Jeeps over the decades, and one 4-door Wrangler, and I just recently purchased another 2-door Wrangler. When doing an online search for a 2-door JLR it surprised me that 4-door Wranglers in dealer stock outnumbered 2-door Wranglers by huge amounts. I'm talking like 300 to 1 4-door over 2-door. There were countless 4-doors in a 150 mile range, but only 2 or 3 2-doors. I had a dealer do a search for me, and he found one in another state. He wasn't really interested in making the deal, and his price wasn't that great, probably because he didn't want to drive to the next state to go get it. I had also been shopping for a Ram 3500 at the time, and found one at the local dealer for a super price being as Ram was having their Employee Pricing Sale last month. While at the dealer I saw that they still had the 2-door JLR that they had had sitting there for almost a year. It had a lot more options on it than I had wanted, so I had passed it over in my search. Then I saw that they had knocked $4000 off the price, so I gave it another look, and test drove it. I really liked it on the test drive, so I sat down to talk to them. Then knocked another $2000 off the price, which made me think that they really wanted to sell it. And since they had someone on the hook, they weren't going to let me go. They had a $500 doc fee, and I said I wouldn't pay that. And there was another $500 incentive if you had a GM vehicle and were buying a Jeep, so they added that, which made it another $1000 off. So I ended up buying the Ram 3500 for $13000 off MSRP and the 2-door Wrangler JLR for $7000 off MSRP that day. Instead of $49K the JLR sold for $42K.

If you ask me, 2-door Wranglers are a dying breed. Very few dealers stock a decent selection of them, and they cant sell the ones they do stock. I hope the 2-door Wrangler doesn't go the way of the dinosaurs. It really is the only Jeep that feels like a "Jeep" when you're driving it.
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Old 12-08-2019, 04:43 PM   #22
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Frosty the Snowman would survive summer vacation in hell before American consumers would go back to compact/midsize regular cab pickup trucks. And this is the reason no competitors I can think of still sell that configuration, except maybe Toyota and they don't count because their POS truck is a 15 year old design.

So, don't hold your breath. I don't see it ever happening again. These companies do extensive market research and they aren't going to tool up to build a vehicle that will only sell in extremely low numbers. Mark Allen from the Gladiator project even said so in some early TFL videos.
I'm pretty sure those old compact pickups were based on car chassis anyway. And they were cheap to make and buy, which wouldn't be the case anymore. Even 20 years ago the utility of a 2 door short bed Ford Ranger wasn't all that great. But they looked amazing. To me anyway. But I agree that the expense of retooling a plant to sell only a small number isn't going to happen. But I can still dream. A 2 door short bed JT. Please, FCA?

Sure its not practical. But really, neither is a 2 door wrangler of any flavour.
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Old 12-10-2019, 01:52 PM   #23
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I grew up on a small tobacco farm in NC. I had 2 uncles and several neighbors that all had 2 wheel drive - single cab pickups of the Ford, Chevy and International brands. Now, they used these just as hard as the tractors we used in the field and a wash job was when it rained. But, they were successful and the trucks were basic and TOUGH! Everybody had a sedan to "go to town" in. So, you have to pick up 8-9 guys, hell - jump in the back and hang on. The safety nannies would shit their pants now! I miss those simple times. Kids look at you funny when you mention the price of a new truck would have bought a NICE house when you were their age.
If you want to see a Jeep truck in action, check out the movie "Tremors" - and yeah, I'd buy that in a minute!
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Old 12-10-2019, 02:18 PM
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This one? Oh yeah!

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Old 12-11-2019, 04:26 PM   #25
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:34 AM   #26
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2-door Wranglers sold nearly 50K units in 2017, over 25% of total Wrangler production. While that is a small percentage of actual Wrangler production, it's still a high number... especially considering TJ's never sold 90K units in any single year, and as low as 64k in 2002. That's why there will be 2-door units for the foreseeable future.
Unfortunately, the days of 50k+ sales seem long gone.

The most recent data (2018 2-door JL) accounted for only 10% of production, totaling only 22,908 units.
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:54 AM   #27
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I think FCA is closley monitoring the sales of Gladiators. When I was looking at JTs, I would monitor dealer inventories. Not too many moving around our immediate area. A number of LEs still available as well at big discounts.

BUT, I think FCA is taking a step in the right direction. Color matched fenders are now available on the Sport S (w/o the max tow) . That package also eliminates that plastic bridge between the fender and bumper. Option is only $250. I think that will boost sales.
If they made a larger tire option available on the Sport S I think that would get some more attention. Those small 245s make the fenders look like elephant ears.
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:58 AM   #28
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Unfortunately, those days seem long gone.

The days are gone for the big manufacturers, definitely. Could be possible however to see an increased interest with younger people with restoring older vehicles. I was at a film processing store and was told they had seen an upward trend with young people getting into film photography. Then we also have a resurgence in vinyl, albeit very small compared to overall music sales.

I wonder if all the people complaining about the old times have a turntable and a film camera that they use on a regular basis?
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Old 12-12-2019, 10:25 AM   #29
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The days are gone for the big manufacturers, definitely. Could be possible however to see an increased interest with younger people with restoring older vehicles. I was at a film processing store and was told they had seen an upward trend with young people getting into film photography. Then we also have a resurgence in vinyl, albeit very small compared to overall music sales.

I wonder if all the people complaining about the old times have a turntable and a film camera that they use on a regular basis?
I made a huge mistake and sold a beautiful Denon Rosewood turntable I bought in the early 80s...

Since everything was going to CD...

right..



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Old 12-12-2019, 10:34 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by m998dna View Post
I made a huge mistake and sold a beautiful Denon Rosewood turntable I bought in the early 80s...
Same here, had a Technics 1300 in the late 70s and early 80s that was stolen and I had insurance replace it with a CD player.

But, around 5 years ago I got one of the last production Technics 1210MK5 units. The good thing about it is they are used for the DJ world and spare parts are pretty easy to find. The thing sounds pretty damn awesome with my 1970s Bose 601 speakers that I bought on eBay and restored. - That's right, I'm kinda stuck in the late 70s.
m998dna and Jeeper416 like this.

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2014 JKU Willys 6-spd, RK X-Factor 3.5", Fox Resis, KM3 37s, PR60s, Eaton e-lockers, 5.13, Atlas II 3.8, and another $10K in miscellaneous parts.
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