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Old 07-09-2019, 02:39 PM   #31
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I think you just like causing trouble
Called Sarcasm. I think anyone should be able to comment not just folks from PA. I also believe it is irresponsible to drink and drive and advocate behaviors that would contribute to such.

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Old 07-09-2019, 03:41 PM   #32
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I think you just like causing trouble
Called Sarcasm. I think anyone should be able to comment not just folks from PA. I also believe it is irresponsible to drink and drive and advocate behaviors that would contribute to such.
Yeah comment on the topic at hand not just some smart ass comment

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Old 07-09-2019, 05:50 PM
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Yes they are and what part of pa are you from
Pittsburgh
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Old 07-09-2019, 06:15 PM   #34
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As a police officer in the state of PA. Here are the current laws regarding doors and side mirrors verbatim.

67PA. CODE 175.77(f) “a vehicle specified under this subsection shall be equipped with doors of a type used as original equipment.

ß 175.68. Mirrors
b) Rearview mirrors. A vehicle specified under this subchapter shall be equipped with at least one rearview mirror or similar device which provides the driver an unobstructed view of the highway to the rear of the vehicle for a distance of not less than 200 feet. A mirror may not be cracked, broken or discolored.

(c) Obstructions. On a vehicle specified under this subchapter, a rearview mirror shall be free from obstructions as described in ß 175.80.

(1) A vehicle specified under this subchapter having a sign, load or material which obstructs, obscures or impairs the driver’s clear view of the highway or an intersecting highway shall have two outside rearview mirrors, one on the driver’s side and one on the passenger’s side, each with a minimum reflective surface of 19.5 square inches.


Law is the law and you can what if until the judge says you are or aren’t paying the fine.

My opinion as cop:

Just buy the damn 30 dollar side mirrors it’s safe. I own a Jeep, I broke my after market side mirrors and I haven’t taken my doors off because it’s not safe plain and simple.

Pulling a wrangler over cause they don’t have doors is completely Officer discrimination (I never will) but it is against title 67 to operate on roadways with no doors. Remember it’s a combination of things as well. No door, no windows, fenders Ext.

Now I’m done cause I’m just talking. Any questions just ask.

Be smart, be safe.
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Old 07-09-2019, 06:55 PM   #35
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67PA. CODE 175.77(f) “a vehicle specified under this subsection shall be equipped with doors of a type used as original equipment.





.
Do you think tube doors fall within the definition "of a type."

Our locals said they would not bother jeepers with tube doors, but would stop someone without doors.
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Old 07-09-2019, 07:04 PM   #36
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67PA. CODE 175.77(f) “a vehicle specified under this subsection shall be equipped with doors of a type used as original equipment.


.
Do you think tube doors fall within the definition "of a type."

Our locals said they would not bother jeepers with tube doors, but would stop someone without doors.

No I don’t think they will fall under original equipment. Any reasonable person would say that. Jeep doesn’t produce vehicles with tube doors so it wouldn’t be original. I’m not bothering either, once again it would have to be a combination of things.
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Old 07-09-2019, 09:12 PM   #37
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No I donít think they will fall under original equipment. Any reasonable person would say that. Jeep doesnít produce vehicles with tube doors so it wouldnít be original. Iím not bothering either, once again it would have to be a combination of things.
Although we will never be driving our JK in PA, I have a question about the ones that do and are licensed in another state. Are those also legally required to have factory doors on the Jeep while they are traveling in PA? I would think they are.
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Old 07-09-2019, 09:29 PM   #38
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As a police officer in the state of PA. Here are the current laws regarding doors and side mirrors verbatim.

67PA. CODE 175.77(f) “a vehicle specified under this subsection shall be equipped with doors of a type used as original equipment.

ß 175.68. Mirrors
b) Rearview mirrors. A vehicle specified under this subchapter shall be equipped with at least one rearview mirror or similar device which provides the driver an unobstructed view of the highway to the rear of the vehicle for a distance of not less than 200 feet. A mirror may not be cracked, broken or discolored.

(c) Obstructions. On a vehicle specified under this subchapter, a rearview mirror shall be free from obstructions as described in ß 175.80.

(1) A vehicle specified under this subchapter having a sign, load or material which obstructs, obscures or impairs the driver’s clear view of the highway or an intersecting highway shall have two outside rearview mirrors, one on the driver’s side and one on the passenger’s side, each with a minimum reflective surface of 19.5 square inches.


Law is the law and you can what if until the judge says you are or aren’t paying the fine.

My opinion as cop:

Just buy the damn 30 dollar side mirrors it’s safe. I own a Jeep, I broke my after market side mirrors and I haven’t taken my doors off because it’s not safe plain and simple.

Pulling a wrangler over cause they don’t have doors is completely Officer discrimination (I never will) but it is against title 67 to operate on roadways with no doors. Remember it’s a combination of things as well. No door, no windows, fenders Ext.

Now I’m done cause I’m just talking. Any questions just ask.

Be smart, be safe.
Thanks for your input and service
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Old 07-09-2019, 09:31 PM   #39
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Yes they are and what part of pa are you from
Pittsburgh
your only 45 minutes from me
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Old 07-10-2019, 04:31 AM   #40
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Although we will never be driving our JK in PA, I have a question about the ones that do and are licensed in another state. Are those also legally required to have factory doors on the Jeep while they are traveling in PA? I would think they are.

As long as your vehicle is equipped to meet the regulations in your state, another state can't require you to comply with their regulations.



You need to remember that police operate under the laws in their state and are not familiar with the laws in other states, so may still stop you.
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Old 07-10-2019, 05:19 AM   #41
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Although we will never be driving our JK in PA, I have a question about the ones that do and are licensed in another state. Are those also legally required to have factory doors on the Jeep while they are traveling in PA? I would think they are.

As long as your vehicle is equipped to meet the regulations in your state, another state can't require you to comply with their regulations.



You need to remember that police operate under the laws in their state and are not familiar with the laws in other states, so may still stop you.
Unfortunately that’s incorrect. If you drive on roadways and highways in PA, or any other state for that matter, then infractions of the motor vehicle code, including equipment are legal and probable cause to be stopped. Side note I personally know pa state troopers who sit at the state line and run traffic.

Be safe.
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Old 07-10-2019, 09:48 AM   #42
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Where did that handout come from?
Department produced, state issued, local government?
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Old 07-10-2019, 01:19 PM   #43
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Unfortunately thatís incorrect. If you drive on roadways and highways in PA, or any other state for that matter, then infractions of the motor vehicle code, including equipment are legal and probable cause to be stopped. Side note I personally know pa state troopers who sit at the state line and run traffic.

Be safe.
^^^That's what I would have guessed.

Colorado doesn't have a mandatory helmet law. Nor does Arizona.
I was riding my motorcycle from Colorado to California on I8 in southern AZ. When I saw the sign "Entering California" I pulled off at the next off ramp to put my helmet on. Right behind me a CSP officer pulled up and contacted me. I told him I had just pulled off the interstate to put my helmet on in a place where I wouldn't get run over. He checked my license and registration and didn't give me a ticket. He said to make sure I wore my helmet while riding in California and went about his business.
It appears he was hiding at the border looking for lawbreakers. I'm glad he wasn't having a bad day.
Always be polite to our law officers.

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Old 07-10-2019, 02:16 PM   #44
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Unfortunately thatís incorrect. If you drive on roadways and highways in PA, or any other state for that matter, then infractions of the motor vehicle code, including equipment are legal and probable cause to be stopped. Side note I personally know pa state troopers who sit at the state line and run traffic.

Be safe.
Asking for clarity, not to be argumentative.

You are saying that your vehicle inspection codes apply to out of state registered vehicles? The door code is in the inspection codes.

That being said, in NC where I live and my Jeep is registered, we don't need doors, fenders, tires can legally extend past any body panel but none of those are legal in PA. If my Jeep meets NC law, what you are saying is that because it doesn't meet PA law, I can't legally drive it there?

I don't trailer my Jeep, I drive it. This could keep me from partaking in visiting the state and spending my money in the local economies. I have traveled to Rausch Creek every year for many years. I know the state lawmakers and enforcers really don't care about just my money but there are many like me. I know it's not you so please don't take it that way.
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Old 07-10-2019, 04:28 PM   #45
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Im in NY and there are no laws about doors, fenders or tires sticking out. Im going to rausch creek shortly and plan to take my doors off at the camp thats about 10 minutes or so away from there so i dont damage them. I always run with mirrors on though.

There is also a bill that is trying to get passed through that would allow vehicles that have removable doors from the factory to be able to drive on roads without doors on. I personally think this door law is a stupid money grab by the state as they know they have two very well known offroad parks there. If it were a safety issue like they try to say, then more states would have adopted this rediculous law!
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:40 PM   #46
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Unfortunately that’s incorrect. If you drive on roadways and highways in PA, or any other state for that matter, then infractions of the motor vehicle code, including equipment are legal and probable cause to be stopped. Side note I personally know pa state troopers who sit at the state line and run traffic.

Be safe.
Asking for clarity, not to be argumentative.

You are saying that your vehicle inspection codes apply to out of state registered vehicles? The door code is in the inspection codes.

That being said, in NC where I live and my Jeep is registered, we don't need doors, fenders, tires can legally extend past any body panel but none of those are legal in PA. If my Jeep meets NC law, what you are saying is that because it doesn't meet PA law, I can't legally drive it there?

I don't trailer my Jeep, I drive it. This could keep me from partaking in visiting the state and spending my money in the local economies. I have traveled to Rausch Creek every year for many years. I know the state lawmakers and enforcers really don't care about just my money but there are many like me. I know it's not you so please don't take it that way.
That is EXACTLY what he is saying. Your vehicle is legal in NC but not PA. Not only can PA officers ticket you but after several weeks they will forward the ticket to NC and attached to your DL. Since it would be a non-moving violation, it's no big deal. It you were ticketed for speeding, NC would likely put the appropriate points on your DL and your insurance would find out. It's not that much different than CWP laws. An NC permit is recognized is many states but take your pistol into other states and it's jail for you.
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Old 07-10-2019, 09:00 PM   #47
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That is EXACTLY what he is saying. Your vehicle is legal in NC but not PA. Not only can PA officers ticket you but after several weeks they will forward the ticket to NC and attached to your DL. Since it would be a non-moving violation, it's no big deal. It you were ticketed for speeding, NC would likely put the appropriate points on your DL and your insurance would find out. It's not that much different than CWP laws. An NC permit is recognized is many states but take your pistol into other states and it's jail for you.


This doesnít seem to make sense to me. Are you sure about this. Last year I got a speeding ticket in NC and it did not get sent back to PA. I got no points on my DL.

How is a Jeep from another state that has tires sticking out past itís fenders drive through PA then? Moving violation sure but inspection issues just seems confusing to me.

Not trying to argue but canít see how that works. You canít stop and switch tires. What about states that require front license plates. Can cars from states that donít require drive through those states?


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Old 07-10-2019, 09:09 PM   #48
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I was a FL LEO for 26 years and often saw out of state tickets on FL DL histories. Maybe some states are better about sharing information.

Being from out of state does not mean an officer can't write you a ticket for even the most minor, B's things. Most I knew generally did not write an out of state driver a ticket for equipment violations. Theres always an exception for something crazy or attitude.
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Old 07-10-2019, 09:19 PM   #49
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I was a FL LEO for 26 years and often saw out of state tickets on FL DL histories. Maybe some states are better about sharing information.

Being from out of state does not mean an officer can't write you a ticket for even the most minor, B's things. Most I knew generally did not write an out of state driver a ticket for equipment violations. Theres always an exception for something crazy or attitude.


Guess you would know! Interesting topic for sure. It would be nice if PA would just pass the current House Bill and allow no doors!


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Old 07-11-2019, 09:59 AM   #50
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Unfortunately thatís incorrect. If you drive on roadways and highways in PA, or any other state for that matter, then infractions of the motor vehicle code, including equipment are legal and probable cause to be stopped. Side note I personally know pa state troopers who sit at the state line and run traffic.

Be safe.

I did not say they wouldn't stop you.

They can, and likely will stop you for equipment violations, but they can not require that you install equipment if it's not required in your home state.

With a phone call from home, or mailing the ticket with a copy of the relevant requirements from your home state, you will have the ticket dropped.



It's profitable for the state simply because the majority of people would rather pay a fine instead of figuring out how to fight it from a different state.

Helmet and seat belt laws are not 'equipment' laws, they are operator requirements and apply to all operators in the state.
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Old 07-11-2019, 11:29 AM   #51
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I agree, the police may notice a "safety" violation as a reason to stop but if an officer is ignorant enough to give you a ticket, there is a little thing in our constitution called the commerce clause.
Most people will not go through the expense and effort to fight an out of state ticket.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:35 PM   #52
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I did not say they wouldn't stop you.

They can, and likely will stop you for equipment violations, but they can not require that you install equipment if it's not required in your home state.

With a phone call from home, or mailing the ticket with a copy of the relevant requirements from your home state, you will have the ticket dropped.



It's profitable for the state simply because the majority of people would rather pay a fine instead of figuring out how to fight it from a different state.

Helmet and seat belt laws are not 'equipment' laws, they are operator requirements and apply to all operators in the state.
LEOs in PA have a duty to ensure any vehicle driven in their state is complying with safety. They can and will issue a ticket to another vehicle if it does not adhere to PA's safety guidelines, regardless of what state the vehicle is registered in, according to a PA LEO who commented in this thread.

If someone thinks that's unfair, they'd better not drive in PA with their doors or mirrors off. Someone saying they do not have to comply with PA's laws because their vehicle is registered elsewhere is about like saying they can legally drive 85 mph on a posted 70 mph highway in PA because their Jeep is registered in Montana.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:49 PM   #53
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I know Roadi, but the 67PA. CODE reference which requires mirrors , doors etc... are regulations pertaining to inspection stations dictating what a vehicle must have before it passes a PA State Inspection.
It is not a vehicle code statute. My position would be, those regs are N/A to vehicles not registered or licensed in PA.
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Old 07-11-2019, 03:27 PM   #54
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LEOs in PA have a duty to ensure any vehicle driven in their state is complying with safety. They can and will issue a ticket to another vehicle if it does not adhere to PA's safety guidelines, regardless of what state the vehicle is registered in, according to a PA LEO who commented in this thread.

If someone thinks that's unfair, they'd better not drive in PA with their doors or mirrors off. Someone saying they do not have to comply with PA's laws because their vehicle is registered elsewhere is about like saying they can legally drive 85 mph on a posted 70 mph highway in PA because their Jeep is registered in Montana.
Not the same thing, my friend. Motor vehicle codes apply to anyone on the roadways in any state. Inspection codes apply only to vehicles registered in that state.

Whats happening here is officers are stopping people who the inspection laws shouldn't apply to and some are ticketing those people. Because all are out of state, they pay the fine instead of fighting it. Which simply means this isn't about safety, it's about money.

You are right, if PA officers are going to apply a non moving violation (inspection code) to me because my legally registered and inspected NC Jeep is in violation of PA inspection code, I will avoid partaking of the state businesses and the state in general.

Unfortunately there are other states that also stomp on my rights and I try to avoid those too. MD, DC, NJ, NY, CT, RI, MA are ones on the east coast I try to avoid at all costs.
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Old 07-11-2019, 03:54 PM   #55
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Okay, so I understand both sides, honestly I do. How is fair that police can stop and cite a vehicle legally inspected and registered in another state... I get it and it’s a valid argument.

Each state has their own MV code and Inspection code. When you drive in their state you shall obey those codes, every state has different standards and laws.

A police officer has the gift and curse of discretion and each will use it differently. Some officers(in all states) are traffic “enthusiast” others aren’t. I can’t and won’t speak for every officer.

I do think it’s unfortunate that some may not travel into PA for a practice (doors off) that only occurs from late April to late September and that’s generous. If you are stopped and cited.. plead not guilty drive back to PA and plead your case in front the judge.

BACK TO THE MAIN TOPIC:
I believe the question of doors and mirrors have been answered rather you like it or not that’s what it is at the current day and time, you need side mirrors and OE doors on ANY vehicle operating on pubic highways, roadways, streets ect. Not including a vehicle who is off-roading the side mirrors and doors no not apply .

Sometimes the fingers are pointed at the police enforcing the law instead of the hand that writes them.

To all, please be safe and again any other questions I’ll answer the best of my knowledge and if I don’t know I’ll point you in the correct direction.
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Old 07-16-2019, 02:06 PM   #56
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That settles it then.

PA joins the communist states on my list that will not voluntarily get another dime from me. It's a shame too because I like Rausch Creek and other PA based businesses (Hershey and Quadratec are a couple).

Wake up people, vote with your wallets.
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Old 07-16-2019, 03:10 PM   #57
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That settles it then.
Wake up people, vote with your wallets.
I do this in so many places. I've given up on Nike, Levi-Strauss and a bunch of others. When the state of California was boycotting Colorado many years ago, I stopped buying from California companies....and told them why.

I don't plan to drive to or through PA, but if I did, I'd have my doors on with mirrors. It's called staying below the radar. I would spend as little money there as possible.

With globalization, it's difficult to discover where the item you are considering buying comes from. I bought a red "Keep America Great 2020" hat from a major web retailer (not from the Trump campaign). Guess what??? Made in China. Well, doggone!

At least my US flag that I fly on a flagpole in my front yard is made in the good ol' USA.

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Old 07-16-2019, 03:27 PM   #58
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That settles it then.
Wake up people, vote with your wallets.
I do this in so many places. I've given up on Nike, Levi-Strauss and a bunch of others. When the state of California was boycotting Colorado many years ago, I stopped buying from California companies....and told them why.

I don't plan to drive to or through PA, but if I did, I'd have my doors on with mirrors. It's called staying below the radar. I would spend as little money there as possible.

With globalization, it's difficult to discover where the item you are considering buying comes from. I bought a red "Keep America Great 2020" hat from a major web retailer (not from the Trump campaign). Guess what??? Made in China. Well, doggone!

At least my US flag that I fly on a flagpole in my front yard is made in the good ol' USA.

Good Luck, L.M.
Very well said
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Old 07-16-2019, 03:46 PM   #59
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It's hard to know where in this global economy corporate offices are, where products are made, etc.

What I do is if there is a significant presence in a particular, self imposed, embargo state is I send that company a note, like Mr LuckyMac does, and I do my best not to buy from them. Sorry Quadratec, it's not personal to your company but PA is being stupid and my money won't be given willingly to them (thru your corporate and local taxes).

Where this will hurt worse and they won't necessarily know it, is in the local economies. When our group stops going to Rausch Creek, there will be many businesses that will lose out on thousands of dollars. Rausch Creek for trail fees and membership fees, local gas stations, convenience stores, restaurants, hotels and campgrounds. Our group has been doing the same weekend for over 10 years, it will be noticed.
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