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Old 09-17-2018, 10:55 PM
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2013 JKRU Cam sensor atrocity

I have owned my 2013 JKRU with 73k on it for a month now. With in the first week I got an ABS Traction control lights during highway speed. No change in anything and reset after ignition shut off. That weekend just the traction control light came on. It was on the highway again. Then on the way home I was on the highway going up a grade and the CEL and traction control came on. It then went into limp mode. I pulled over and shut down and just the CEL was on and I was no longer in limp mode. Got home, check the code and it was P0394. So replaced cam sensors both sides just in case and spark plugs while I was in there. All was well for about three days and then same thing, going up a grade CEL and traction control lights came on and it goes into limp mode. Pull over, shut off still CEL but not in limp mode. Get home, same code. Cam sensor bank 2. Now I take it to the dealer thinking they might know. They drive it and canít reproduce it. $160 please. Thanks for nothing. I have them flash the PCM/ECU. The Tec says I shouldnít. Iím so bummed!!!

Driving home tonight same as above.

I have searched many forums and they all have brought up this but, none that I have found has a confirmed cure. Next is the plug on the sensor, then battery, then PCU/ECU, then wire harness. The problem is that I have not seen anyone say that fixed it.

Please, any insight would be much appreciated

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Old 09-18-2018, 08:53 PM   #2
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I have owned my 2013 JKRU with 73k on it for a month now. With in the first week I got an ABS Traction control lights during highway speed. No change in anything and reset after ignition shut off. That weekend just the traction control light came on. It was on the highway again. Then on the way home I was on the highway going up a grade and the CEL and traction control came on. It then went into limp mode. I pulled over and shut down and just the CEL was on and I was no longer in limp mode. Got home, check the code and it was P0394. So replaced cam sensors both sides just in case and spark plugs while I was in there. All was well for about three days and then same thing, going up a grade CEL and traction control lights came on and it goes into limp mode. Pull over, shut off still CEL but not in limp mode. Get home, same code. Cam sensor bank 2. Now I take it to the dealer thinking they might know. They drive it and canít reproduce it. $160 please. Thanks for nothing. I have them flash the PCM/ECU. The Tec says I shouldnít. Iím so bummed!!!

Driving home tonight same as above.

I have searched many forums and they all have brought up this but, none that I have found has a confirmed cure. Next is the plug on the sensor, then battery, then PCU/ECU, then wire harness. The problem is that I have not seen anyone say that fixed it.

Please, any insight would be much appreciated
I just went through this with a new to me Jeep. The most likely cause is going to be a short in the wiring harness. I took it back to the dealer and basically told them its not going to be the position sensor, despite the code...they called me a day later and said after looking in to it, it appeared to be a very common problem. They did replace the position sensors, but that was more of a "just in case". I'm 99.9% they alone wouldn't have fixed the issue. Drove out in the mountains today and didn't have any issues.
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Old 09-18-2018, 09:10 PM   #3
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I had the same issues repeatedly with my 2014 and the dealership would never help me. Dealt with it the entire 2 years I had it, and ended up trading it in taking a big hit on it
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Old 09-18-2018, 10:53 PM   #4
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The only thing I know that fixes that problem i the head change. 3 local Jeeper have had heads changed. The start of the problem is the constant position sensor code followed by limp mode.


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Old 09-18-2018, 10:58 PM   #5
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The only thing I know that fixes that problem i the head change. 3 local Jeeper have had heads changed. The start of the problem is the constant position sensor code followed by limp mode.


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What? A head change fixes a cam position error? Replace both heads? Weird..
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:26 PM
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I am going to start with the engine wire harness. Then it may be the head but I heard that it was the 2012 that had head problems. @BeRoyalKC did you end up replacing the wire harness and the Cam sensors? Thank you all for your comments!
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:37 PM   #7
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What? A head change fixes a cam position error? Replace both heads? Weird..
Why does that sound wierd to you? The cams sit inside the heads and the sensors would have to seat there as well. Once you learn how a specific sensor works you can figure out what constraints can break it. I am not saying that I know what causes it. Just that in my mind it is plausible.
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:42 PM   #8
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The atrocitie is that to my knowledge there is no direct way to test and validate the readings off the sensor.
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Old 09-19-2018, 07:05 AM   #9
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I am going to start with the engine wire harness. Then it may be the head but I heard that it was the 2012 that had head problems. @BeRoyalKC did you end up replacing the wire harness and the Cam sensors? Thank you all for your comments!
Yeah, they replaced both sensors and the wiring harness. The only constant I've read is that replacing the sensors doesn't actually fix the issue, though.

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Old 09-19-2018, 09:11 AM   #10
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Why does that sound wierd to you? The cams sit inside the heads and the sensors would have to seat there as well. Once you learn how a specific sensor works you can figure out what constraints can break it. I am not saying that I know what causes it. Just that in my mind it is plausible.
Yea.. I get that.. but how the sensor seats in the head shouldn't "go bad" either it seated in there badly from the beginning.. doesn't seem like an issue that would happen 70,000 miles later. Unless the head warped, which would be a bigger issue.

I guess the problem could be what the sensor reads which should be part of the cam. But hey, it's the Occam's Razor deal.
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Old 09-19-2018, 10:58 AM   #11
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I have been struggling with this issue for 3 years now. I took it into the dealer and they rotated one of the sensors, telling me if was a tad off. CEL/traction light came on again a week later.

I leave an AEV scan tool in my Jeep at all times because it is so frigging random. I have cleared it probably 200 times now. It will go away for a few months, then I hit a bump and it is back. It ****ing sucks.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:29 AM   #12
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I have been struggling with this issue for 3 years now. I took it into the dealer and they rotated one of the sensors, telling me if was a tad off. CEL/traction light came on again a week later.

I leave an AEV scan tool in my Jeep at all times because it is so frigging random. I have cleared it probably 200 times now. It will go away for a few months, then I hit a bump and it is back. It ****ing sucks.
I'd give the wiring harness a go.

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Old 09-19-2018, 11:57 AM   #13
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I'd give the wiring harness a go.

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I should look for an online schematic. Do you know the dealer cost for replacement?
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:08 PM   #14
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I should look for an online schematic. Do you know the dealer cost for replacement?
I'm not sure of the cost to be honest. They did it under my 1,000 mile warranty. I'd guess in the $400-$500 range, but I could be way off. It looks like they even released TSB 18-053-15 back in June of 2015 regarding the issue (or at least a similar issue).

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Old 09-19-2018, 01:53 PM   #15
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I'm not sure of the cost to be honest. They did it under my 1,000 mile warranty. I'd guess in the $400-$500 range, but I could be way off. It looks like they even released TSB 18-053-15 back in June of 2015 regarding the issue (or at least a similar issue).

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Well, I think I figured it out. The input plug on the passenger side sensor was loose - it was not clicked in with the red switch. It was a major pain to get it seated properly; I had to use pliers to get them to mate correctly, then I was able to switch the red lock into place. I will go over the usual bumps this evening where I usually get the light to see if it works. Fingers crossed.

A few years ago I cut the driver's side plug out and soldered in a new one (don't ever do it, there is no room it was a pain in the ass!)
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:45 PM   #16
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2013 JKRU Cam sensor atrocity

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Originally Posted by Steve Moab13 View Post
What? A head change fixes a cam position error? Replace both heads? Weird..


The recurring cam position sensor code and limp mode is commonly the start of the bad head issue. Head replacement is the cure. It is possible that it is a harness but not likely.
Head issues were common in 2012 and 2013 with the odd random ones popping up as late as 2017.. possibly the odd old style head making it to the assembly line.


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Old 09-19-2018, 04:29 PM   #17
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The recurring cam position sensor code and limp mode is commonly the start of the bad head issue. Head replacement is the cure. It is possible that it is a harness but not likely.
Head issues were common in 2012 and 2013 with the odd random ones popping up as late as 2017.. possibly the odd old style head making it to the assembly line.


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I hadn't seen that, but I'll have to keep an eye on it just in case. I think the extended warranty for the bad head covered vehicles (with a few exceptions) made before July 25, 2012. My manufacture date was January 2013 so it's very unlikely that I'm covered, but should also be far enough out from the date they made the switch that I would sure hope I didn't get that unlucky.

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Old 09-19-2018, 04:31 PM   #18
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Well, I think I figured it out. The input plug on the passenger side sensor was loose - it was not clicked in with the red switch. It was a major pain to get it seated properly; I had to use pliers to get them to mate correctly, then I was able to switch the red lock into place. I will go over the usual bumps this evening where I usually get the light to see if it works. Fingers crossed.

A few years ago I cut the driver's side plug out and soldered in a new one (don't ever do it, there is no room it was a pain in the ass!)
Definitely let us know. Good luck!

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Old 09-20-2018, 10:08 AM   #19
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The recurring cam position sensor code and limp mode is commonly the start of the bad head issue. Head replacement is the cure. It is possible that it is a harness but not likely.
Head issues were common in 2012 and 2013 with the odd random ones popping up as late as 2017.. possibly the odd old style head making it to the assembly line.


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My head was replaced and still I get cam sensor codes. I fixed it last night. I see no correlation with the head design.
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Old 09-20-2018, 10:30 AM   #20
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Well, I think I figured it out. The input plug on the passenger side sensor was loose - it was not clicked in with the red switch. It was a major pain to get it seated properly; I had to use pliers to get them to mate correctly, then I was able to switch the red lock into place. I will go over the usual bumps this evening where I usually get the light to see if it works. Fingers crossed.

A few years ago I cut the driver's side plug out and soldered in a new one (don't ever do it, there is no room it was a pain in the ass!)
Please take a picture of that damn plug and let this be the thread that people use to fix this problem.
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:45 PM
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Maybe the head

I have read about the head. I asked my mechanic to take a picture of the cast numbers hoping itís not a AA or AB head. I know it is warranted for 10 years 150000 miles but dealing with the dealer is like making a deal with the devil. They will soak me for everything first and then say Iím not covered somehow and then Iíll prove them wrong and they will say they will pay for half. There is a special place in hell for them. Sorry I digress. We are looking at the cam phaser gear and the harness. My mechanic is even researching on his own time. What a great guy! I will keep you all abreast of how this is coming out.
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:47 PM
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@lolpetewtf weíre you throwing a CEL about driver side cam sensor bank B?
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:48 PM
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@lolpetewtf weíre you throwing a CEL about driver side cam sensor bank B?
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:25 PM   #24
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@lolpetewtf weíre you throwing a CEL about driver side cam sensor bank B?
Yep. Check that the connection is secure, also make sure the sensors are tight with a t30 torx bit. Contact cleaner can't hurt either.
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:27 PM   #25
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I have read about the head. I asked my mechanic to take a picture of the cast numbers hoping it’s not a AA or AB head. I know it is warranted for 10 years 150000 miles but dealing with the dealer is like making a deal with the devil. They will soak me for everything first and then say I’m not covered somehow and then I’ll prove them wrong and they will say they will pay for half. There is a special place in hell for them. Sorry I digress. We are looking at the cam phaser gear and the harness. My mechanic is even researching on his own time. What a great guy! I will keep you all abreast of how this is coming out.
.

I threw P0390. My JK was manufactured in Jan 13. Although possible, it's highly unlikely my issues were the start of the cylinder head problems. Replacing the wiring harness fixed it for me. It's highly likely just correcting the connection like @lolpetewtf would've done the same thing (assuming I didn't have a short in the harness. I didn't care to check since the dealer was taking care of it)

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Old 09-21-2018, 11:39 PM   #26
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Been following this thread along with several others. Had a couple CEL for a cylinder 5 misfire. Cleared both( happened during and not long after a wheeling trip where there was lots of mud present). Did a spark plug change( currently at 110,000 miles, changed plugs at 101,000 miles) two weeks after changing plugs the cylinder 5 misfire stopped. But now have an engine tick, canít tell if itís low end or top end( drivetrain tick or rocker tick). Checked oil level, was a little low. Changed oil. Still ticking. Tried marvel oil. Still ticking. Anyone with experience with this issue would be greatly appreciated. Canít pinpoint for sure, but I think itís a passenger side tick( which is opposite of the cylinder 5 issues if Iím not mistaken). No loss of power. Isnít driving any different. 2015 JKU sport if that helps at all.


(Sorry for hyjacking thread)


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Old 09-22-2018, 06:57 PM
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@BeRoyalKC mine is a Jan 2013 wrangler also. I think it is the same problem as you. Or at least I hope. I told my mechanic to take his time. He said that he doesn’t want to just replace parts. He wants to actually find the problem. Revolutionary!!! I hope something comes up next week. Stay tuned.
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Old 09-22-2018, 10:36 PM   #28
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I have the same issue with my 2013 JKU. I am lucky to know a very experienced Chrysler TechMan, to whom I've described the same issue. He had seen this before and knew of a STAR case from Chrysler, which describes one of the root causes of a long list of error codes all related to camshaft position sensor issues, the case # is S1618000050.

In short the case stats that there are two oil galley bolts under the Camshaft Sprockets, which if not probably torqued (assembly failure apparently) will allow air pockets to enter the oil passages and cause improper phaser operation. One of his team told me, that in some extreme cases they found one or two of these bolts completely loosen themselves and landed in the oil pan! (IDK if that even possible).

Furthermore, the STAR case repair procedure stats clearly that you should of course check all other components for failure. But if all checks yield no resolution above problem might be then the root cause.

We didn't come to work on my Jeep, as this guy has a very busy workshop. But I hope that in the upcoming days, we will be able to do that.

If anybody meanwhile went with this approach (torquing the bolts) and it was the fix, please report back.

Here is the list of error codes related to this case: P0390, P0394, P0365, P0349, P0345, P0344, P0340, P0369, P06DD. Mine is P0394.
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Old 09-23-2018, 12:02 AM   #29
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I have the same issue with my 2013 JKU. I am lucky to know a very experienced Chrysler TechMan, to whom I've described the same issue. He had seen this before and knew of a STAR case from Chrysler, which describes one of the root causes of a long list of error codes all related to camshaft position sensor issues, the case # is S1618000050.

In short the case stats that there are two oil galley bolts under the Camshaft Sprockets, which if not probably torqued (assembly failure apparently) will allow air pockets to enter the oil passages and cause improper phaser operation. One of his team told me, that in some extreme cases they found one or two of these bolts completely loosen themselves and landed in the oil pan! (IDK if that even possible).

Furthermore, the STAR case repair procedure stats clearly that you should of course check all other components for failure. But if all checks yield no resolution above problem might be then the root cause.

We didn't come to work on my Jeep, as this guy has a very busy workshop. But I hope that in the upcoming days, we will be able to do that.

If anybody meanwhile went with this approach (torquing the bolts) and it was the fix, please report back.

Here is the list of error codes related to this case: P0390, P0394, P0365, P0349, P0345, P0344, P0340, P0369, P06DD. Mine is P0394.
You know what, one guy responded to a post a while ago and he said that happened to him. Same issues we've been having. Oil galley plug fell in to his oil pan. They fixed it but 40k miles later his engine was shot. I brushed it off as an extremely rare occurrence. IF that that happened to be the case, is there anything we can do with that case number?

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Old 09-23-2018, 12:10 AM   #30
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I have the same issue with my 2013 JKU. I am lucky to know a very experienced Chrysler TechMan, to whom I've described the same issue. He had seen this before and knew of a STAR case from Chrysler, which describes one of the root causes of a long list of error codes all related to camshaft position sensor issues, the case # is S1618000050.

In short the case stats that there are two oil galley bolts under the Camshaft Sprockets, which if not probably torqued (assembly failure apparently) will allow air pockets to enter the oil passages and cause improper phaser operation. One of his team told me, that in some extreme cases they found one or two of these bolts completely loosen themselves and landed in the oil pan! (IDK if that even possible).

Furthermore, the STAR case repair procedure stats clearly that you should of course check all other components for failure. But if all checks yield no resolution above problem might be then the root cause.

We didn't come to work on my Jeep, as this guy has a very busy workshop. But I hope that in the upcoming days, we will be able to do that.

If anybody meanwhile went with this approach (torquing the bolts) and it was the fix, please report back.

Here is the list of error codes related to this case: P0390, P0394, P0365, P0349, P0345, P0344, P0340, P0369, P06DD. Mine is P0394.
Shoot me a PM @WadiRum when you get a chance. I tried to send you one but it wouldn't work.

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