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Old 12-04-2015, 10:00 AM
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2014 jk sahara bogging down after 4000rpm

Howdy folks,

2 days ago I started having a weird problem with my jk just before my friends and I went offroading. During acceleration (hard acceleration and semi hard) as soon as the rpm hit 4000 the jeep would lose all acceleration (as if braking hard).
The loss of power and acceleration is so severe that stuff would get thrown to the front. There is very little speed increase and the rpm climbs very very slowly.

I've attached a video doing a test drive around my area, I apologize for the camera shake (recorded it with my phone).

https://youtu.be/_UbKS5-RJeE

In the video I tried to show that the problem happens both in automatic and tiptronic.
I'm gonna try and give a thorough explanation of what the problem is and what I've done to try to remedy it.

1- There are no upshift or downshift issues under normal driving conditions (as in accelerating slowly) whether in automatic or tiptronic.

2- When the problem first happened I got the ETC lightning bolt warning light, which went away after 5-10mins. I also got a check engine light which also went away. Neither warning light has not come on since then.

3- I checked the error code with my Diablo InTune device and it gave me a P2174 code which is: "Low Airflow/Restriction Detected Instantaneous Accumulation". However, since the check engine light has not come on since then I figured it was a fluke or something.

4- Before this happened I didn't have any problems with acceleration past 4000rpm, jk would keep accelerating until upshifted by myself or the automatic transmission.

5- I checked the tranny oil and it seemed fine. Well within normal range and no burnt or weird smells.

6- Since the ETC light came on I figured I'd check the throttle body. Opened it up, there was a small amount of grime there but I cleaned it anyway. It looked that it was recently cleaned. I noticed that the butterfly valve wouldn't close all the way but a quick google search lead me to understand its normal not to close all the way. Other than that I didn't notice any issues with the throttle body.

7- I had a 91 octane tune on the jeep (have had it for over a year with issues) but I did do a reset on it just in case that was the cause. Didn't fix the issue.

8- The problem happened after a long 3-4 hour drive to the offroad location. At times during the drive I had to go rather fast (140-150 kmh or 87-93 mph) to catch up to my buddies. During which time I had no issues with the rpm going over 4000. The problem started after we took a 30min break at a gas station to refuel before heading out to the desert.

9- Lastly, this "bog down" happened in all gears and speeds. The odd thing is when accelerating very slowly (light push on the pedal), in tiptronic so it doesn't upshift automatically, the rpm climbs normally over 4000 and I don't notice a loss in power or acceleration.

I will take the jeep in for a check, however since it's not under warranty anymore I'd rather try and figure it out myself. I know it'll be hard to diagnose this problem but I'm hoping someone might have had the same problem.

Thank you in advance.

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Old 12-04-2015, 10:06 AM   #2
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Have you checked the air box for rat/squirrel nests?

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Old 12-04-2015, 02:55 PM   #3
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P2174 Jeep Low Airflow/Restriction Detected Instantaneous Accumulation OBDII Engine Light Trouble Code | AutoCodes.com

Did you load the factory tune just to test the tune is not the culprit ?
If so, and if that didn't fix the issue, I'd think your map sensor or TPS might have taken a dump, or maybe one of them came loose ? that would explain why the engine seems to be reaching some sort of rev limiter past 4000rpm at WOT vs working normal at low throttle input past the same RPM.
Check them at least to see if the sensors are where they should

Good luck.
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Old 12-05-2015, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by rsmwrangler View Post
P2174 Jeep Low Airflow/Restriction Detected Instantaneous Accumulation OBDII Engine Light Trouble Code | AutoCodes.com

Did you load the factory tune just to test the tune is not the culprit ?
If so, and if that didn't fix the issue, I'd think your map sensor or TPS might have taken a dump, or maybe one of them came loose ? that would explain why the engine seems to be reaching some sort of rev limiter past 4000rpm at WOT vs working normal at low throttle input past the same RPM.
Check them at least to see if the sensors are where they should

Good luck.
Hey, thanks for the reply ya I loaded the original factory backup tune just to make sure the 91 octane tune wasn't the problem. Didn't see a change.

I did notice that the intake air temperature sensor was bent and plastic frame kinda broken. The plastic frame basically came off with one touch so I removed it. And I straightened the sensor. However, now I'm getting a P0113 error code constantly. P0113 Jeep - Intake Air Temperature Sensor 1 Circuit High - OBDII Engine Light Trouble Code | AutoCodes.com

I ordered a new MAP sensor and a new IAT sensor since they're cheap. Gonna change them in about 2 hours so we'll see if that solves the problem.

The IAT sensor is definitely busted. I'm hoping that's the cause of the issue.
I will of course change the IAT sensor first and do a test to see if that fixes the bigger issue. If not then I'll check/change the MAP sensor. I'll also check the TPS sensor, I have to admit I completely forgot about that lol

I'll let you know what happens.

Thanks again
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Old 12-05-2015, 04:43 AM
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Have you checked the air box for rat/squirrel nests?
Ya I actually thought about something blocking the airflow but I didn't see anything in the little inspection I did. I am gonna take a closer look since it seems It's an airflow problem, got the P2174 error code again.
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Old 12-05-2015, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by rsmwrangler View Post
P2174 Jeep Low Airflow/Restriction Detected Instantaneous Accumulation OBDII Engine Light Trouble Code | AutoCodes.com

Did you load the factory tune just to test the tune is not the culprit ?
If so, and if that didn't fix the issue, I'd think your map sensor or TPS might have taken a dump, or maybe one of them came loose ? that would explain why the engine seems to be reaching some sort of rev limiter past 4000rpm at WOT vs working normal at low throttle input past the same RPM.
Check them at least to see if the sensors are where they should

Good luck.
Well I replaced the IAT sensor, no fix. Replaced the MAP sensor and still no fix.

During the test drive I kinda floored it so the automatic transmission would downshift. Of course it bogged down after downshifting since rpm went over 4000 but I got the check engine light and the ETC lightning bolt warning lights again. The ETC light went off after turning the engine off and on again. The error code I got was the P2174 low airflow code again.

I'm gonna get in there and check all airflow parts to make sure there are no leaks or blockages or whatever.

I still haven't ruled out the TPS but I haven't been able to check it since I can't find a how to video/guide on it, all i find are either cherokees or YJs and such. I know it has to be done with a multimeter but the JK has 5 wires for the TPS and all the guides I see are 3. Tested different configurations with no results. I'll figure it out somehow and check again.
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Old 12-05-2015, 05:46 AM
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Just checked the airbox (factory box, no CAI or after market filter). everything seemed clean and in proper shape. Checked various hoses and such for any damage or looseness.

I cleared the error code, did a test again downshifting at higher speeds to get rpm above 4000. Code came back along with the flashing ETC light which, again it went away.

I'm thinking it might be the throttle body itself but when moving the butterfly valve it moves smoothly and I don't see, feel, or hear any noises and such. It did have a very subtle hint of a burnt smell on it. And of course the valve not closing all the way thing but i'm 99% sure that's normal.

My guess, and it's just a wild guess, is that during a drive the butterfly valve or something in the throttle body messes up. Which causes the lightning bolt and p2174 error code combo to pop up. I think the only way to test that would be to get my hands on another throttle body from same model jk and swamping it out to see if that's the case.

As always, I'll update this thread if I figure something out.

Thanks
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Old 12-05-2015, 06:04 AM   #8
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For grins, remove the air filter and go on a short run. Any change? I realize you indicate that the air filter looks good, but this is an easy test that will give us an additional data point.

Joe
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Old 12-05-2015, 07:23 AM
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For grins, remove the air filter and go on a short run. Any change? I realize you indicate that the air filter looks good, but this is an easy test that will give us an additional data point.

Joe
Hi Joe,

I'll do that after I finish with some work and I'll get back to you.

Thanks
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Old 12-06-2015, 01:04 AM   #10
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Aren't you still under warranty? If so, let the dealer diagnose and fix it.
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Old 12-06-2015, 01:15 AM   #11
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Aren't you still under warranty? If so, let the dealer diagnose and fix it.
You obviously didn't read what he originally wrote.
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Old 12-06-2015, 06:51 AM   #12
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Some people, and I am one, would prefer to use a dealer as a last resort. The OP probably read the post, but decided not to pursue its recommendations.

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You obviously didn't read what he originally wrote.
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Old 12-06-2015, 10:16 AM   #13
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You obviously didn't read what he originally wrote.
Oops. Missed that last paragraph somehow. Probably saw it the first time I read it and forgot about it at the time of my second reply.


My guess on the 5 wires to the throttle body instead of 3: it's wiring for both the TPS (3 wires: +5v, ground, and 0-5v signal) and for controlling the blade position (2 wires: +5v and 0-5v signal, sharing the ground with TPS).


I think a self diagnostic/calibration is performed on the throttle body when you turn the key on, but don't start the engine (may need to wait several seconds). Have someone turn the key on while you watch the throttle blade. Maybe you'll see something interesting, or a code will be thrown when it self-tests.
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Old 12-06-2015, 10:56 AM   #14
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Try changing the spark plugs, when my jeep started to bog and the engine light came on I checked the spark plugs and water got into them and they were shot, right after it out new ones in the problem was solved
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Old 12-06-2015, 11:43 PM
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Oops. Missed that last paragraph somehow. Probably saw it the first time I read it and forgot about it at the time of my second reply.


My guess on the 5 wires to the throttle body instead of 3: it's wiring for both the TPS (3 wires: +5v, ground, and 0-5v signal) and for controlling the blade position (2 wires: +5v and 0-5v signal, sharing the ground with TPS).


I think a self diagnostic/calibration is performed on the throttle body when you turn the key on, but don't start the engine (may need to wait several seconds). Have someone turn the key on while you watch the throttle blade. Maybe you'll see something interesting, or a code will be thrown when it self-tests.
That's a good idea I'll go do that right now

As for the throttle body test, turning the key to on and waiting for the test doesn't throw any error codes.
The only times I get error codes now is during sudden downshifting say from 3 to 2 or 2 to 1 only if the downshift causes the rpm to go above 4000.

But I'll go do the test now. I was gonna swap out the throttle body with a TB of a friends jeep (same year/model) but I think this would be easier lol

Cheers
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Old 12-06-2015, 11:44 PM
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Try changing the spark plugs, when my jeep started to bog and the engine light came on I checked the spark plugs and water got into them and they were shot, right after it out new ones in the problem was solved
Good idea, i didn't think about the spark plugs. I'll check them now thanks
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Old 12-07-2015, 03:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ01TJ View Post
You obviously didn't read what he originally wrote.
Oops. Missed that last paragraph somehow. Probably saw it the first time I read it and forgot about it at the time of my second reply.


My guess on the 5 wires to the throttle body instead of 3: it's wiring for both the TPS (3 wires: +5v, ground, and 0-5v signal) and for controlling the blade position (2 wires: +5v and 0-5v signal, sharing the ground with TPS).


I think a self diagnostic/calibration is performed on the throttle body when you turn the key on, but don't start the engine (may need to wait several seconds). Have someone turn the key on while you watch the throttle blade. Maybe you'll see something interesting, or a code will be thrown when it self-tests.
I just had my dad turn on the jeep and Rev a bit while I looked at the throttle body. Attaching a short video of it. I'm not sure if this is normal behaviour. Something tells me it should open up a bit more while reving but I barely see any movement.

Keep in mind the car was parked and there is a Rev limiter while parked which is 4000 I believe. Don't think there is a way for me to record it while moving to see what happens at and above 4000rpm.

https://youtu.be/DA3pNYbf04A
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Old 12-08-2015, 12:22 AM   #18
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Attaching a short video of it. I'm not sure if this is normal behaviour. Something tells me it should open up a bit more while reving but I barely see any movement.
I wouldn't be surprised if that's normal behavior when free-revving the engine in park.


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Don't think there is a way for me to record it while moving to see what happens at and above 4000rpm.
If you have an android phone/tablet, and you want some geeky diagnostics/monitoring tools, look into the "Torque" app and a compatible bluetooth OBDII adapter. You would be able to monitor the throttle blade position and all kinds of other stuff (manifold pressure, ignition timing, knock retard) that might possibly provide clues.

If it was my Jeep, I would monitor some things with Torque in hopes of noticing an obvious clue. If that was not helpful, then I'd give up and take it in to someone that has access to Chrysler's troubleshooting procedures and diagnostics equipment.
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Old 12-08-2015, 11:22 PM
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I wouldn't be surprised if that's normal behavior when free-revving the engine in park.




If you have an android phone/tablet, and you want some geeky diagnostics/monitoring tools, look into the "Torque" app and a compatible bluetooth OBDII adapter. You would be able to monitor the throttle blade position and all kinds of other stuff (manifold pressure, ignition timing, knock retard) that might possibly provide clues.

If it was my Jeep, I would monitor some things with Torque in hopes of noticing an obvious clue. If that was not helpful, then I'd give up and take it in to someone that has access to Chrysler's troubleshooting procedures and diagnostics equipment.
Thanks for the info, that app looks great I just have to find a good bluetooth adapter here. What I see locally all seem to be cheap chinese nockoffs. Will order one from somewhere. Will take a while though

I wish I had known about this app sooner lol
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Old 12-09-2015, 01:53 PM
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Hey all, just wanted to do a little update. Earlier today I had a friend with same model JK as me come down, I swapped my throttle body with my friends to see if maybe mine is the problem. Sadly that was not the case since the problem was still there.

I'm going to try and test the wiring tomorrow morning (If i can find a wiring schematic or guide on the wires). If I don't see any results from that then I'll take it to a garage to see if they can figure it.

In any case, thank you all for your replies and ideas. When I figure out something new or I figure out the problem I'll definitely update you all.

Thanks again,
Sash
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Old 12-09-2015, 02:48 PM   #21
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I just have to find a good bluetooth adapter
I use this one: http://www.obdlink.com/lxbt/

It's expensive, but good quality, 3 year warranty, better compatibility, and faster than the cheaper adapters. Higher data rates when polling data from the vehicle makes data/guages on the Torque app more responsive, especially when monitoring many different things at the same time. Also has a "battery saver" mode where it powers down when the key is out of the ignition so you can leave it plugged into the OBD port all the time.
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Old 12-09-2015, 03:06 PM   #22
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Also, double check on compatibility with your vehicle. Looks like you can't assume that all vehicles worldwide support OBDII. I believe OBDII was the result of rules/laws in the USA. For you, I'm guessing the Jeep is an import? If so, then you would need to confirm that OBDII is standard in the country that the vehicle was imported from.

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Old 12-09-2015, 04:17 PM   #23
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Did you buy gas when you stopped, just before the trouble started? Bad gas can cause all sorts of problems.
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Old 12-09-2015, 11:38 PM   #24
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If I remember correctly, p2174 will not set if there are any MAP codes stored. It wouldn't cost anything to try running with it unplugged. I know you said you replaced it with new but there are a lot of junk out of the box aftermarket sensors that can make you go crazy thinking it's something else. If there is any change, try installing your buddies map sensor. Did you do any type of throttle body relearn or ecu reset after cleaning it?
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Old 12-10-2015, 12:33 AM
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Did you buy gas when you stopped, just before the trouble started? Bad gas can cause all sorts of problems.
Hey, I did buy gas just before the problem started. Although gas here is pretty standardized between different gas stations/oil companies. I have refueled once or twice since that refuel though.

But still it could be a possibility. Having refueled again since that time I'm not sure how to proceed to see if the gas is/was the problem.

Thanks for the idea, I'll definitely check it out.
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Rugged Ridge Front Bumper (no winch), Procomp Alloy Wheels (17"), 33" Cooper S/T Maxx 285/70R17
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Old 12-10-2015, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Pidfusion View Post
If I remember correctly, p2174 will not set if there are any MAP codes stored. It wouldn't cost anything to try running with it unplugged. I know you said you replaced it with new but there are a lot of junk out of the box aftermarket sensors that can make you go crazy thinking it's something else. If there is any change, try installing your buddies map sensor. Did you do any type of throttle body relearn or ecu reset after cleaning it?
Hey, I didn't do any relearn or ecu reset although the TB was pretty clean when I first opened it up.

I'll go and do a test with the MAP sensor unplugged just to see what happens. But I'm pretty positive it's not the MAP. The new one I got was from the Jeep parts department for the exact year/model of my jeep. I'm still ruling it out though. I'll do what you said and I'll try to do a relearn/ecu reset when I figure out how.

Thanks
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2014 JK Sahara: 2.5" Teraflex 9550 lift kit, Teraflex Monster Trackbar, Magnaflow Exhaust, Bestop Trektop,
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Old 12-10-2015, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by UselessPickles View Post
Also, double check on compatibility with your vehicle. Looks like you can't assume that all vehicles worldwide support OBDII. I believe OBDII was the result of rules/laws in the USA. For you, I'm guessing the Jeep is an import? If so, then you would need to confirm that OBDII is standard in the country that the vehicle was imported from.

OBDLinkâ„¢ Vehicle Compatibility | OBDLinkâ„¢ – OBD Solutions
Thanks for the link. I'm pretty sure the jeep is OBD II complaint. I found a sticker on the car that says the car was made in the USA and it says the same thing on the registration card, but I can't find a sticker that says OBDII compliant. I'll see if I can ask the stealership I'm sure they'll know.

I did manage to use the DiabloSport InTune that I have to read the info off the car while driving, although the UI on that thing is pretty horrid. I got a log of it along with some new info I found in a test I did earlier, gonna put them all in a different post since it's pretty long.
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:04 AM
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Hey all, before anything I wanted to correct a mistake in my original post. In #7 where I mention I had a 91 octane tune i wanted to say I've had it for over a year with NO issues, but I forgot to type the "no" lol so it read as "I've had it for over a year with issues" Just wanted to clarify that I never had any issues with the 91 octane tune.

Anyway, today I hooked up my DiabloSport InTune and managed to do a log of the jeep while driving. I noticed a few odd things.
Note: I did the whole test drive in tiptronic mode as I didn't want the jeep to change gears and screw up my test.

1- During hard acceleration the Throttle Position Sensor % would be much higher than the Throttle Blade Position % by around 40-50% and the Throttle Position Sensor would actually go above 100%. The max was 119%. Pretty sure this is not right, how can a throttle position be above 100% lol

2- I tried applying light pressure on the accelerator (pushed the pedal about 1/4 way in) to see what would happen. It turns out the rpm/speed kept going up until the rpm almost reached the red line. accelerating like this didn't cause any problems, as in the bog down / loss of power didn't occur. I tested this in 1st and 2nd gear, same result.

3- The loss of power/bog down only happened when I pressed the accelerator more than 1/4 way.

According to this new info I'm thinking when I press the gas pedal to after a certain point the jeep mistakenly thinks it should open the throttle all the way to the moon and send a ton of gas to the engine or some such lol. But since there's not enough air coming in I get the "low air flow" error and the car bogs down. In JKs the TPS and the throttle body are one unit. I know the problem can't be with the whole unit or any part of the unit, since I swapped my friends TB unit last night and I had the same issue. So now I'm thinking the problem is somewhere else, the gas pedal itself or something. Since I'm not familiar with those parts of the car I'll have to do some research before I can test stuff.

I tested the TB connector wire and as far as I can tell it reads fine. Although there are 6 wires unlike the usual 3 that you find in other cars or older jeeps. As far as I can tell there are 2 power wires, 1 signal, and 2 ground. the Last one could be another ground or another signal wire but I'm not sure. I couldn't do any back probing since the connector is built like a fortress, my only option was to cut a bit of the wires down the line and test there but I didn't wanna do that.

I can't seem to be able to attach the log file since it's a .log extension, the site won't allow it. I can try and send it with a PM or something if anyone would like to have it.

I'm gonna attach a few screenshots of the DataViewer. I've made red circles around the important sections along with a bit of explanation (not the best but I think it makes the point)

I apologize for yet another long post, just wanted to be thorough.

Thanks

PS: In the screenshots the graph lines for TPS and TBP are kinda blending in together. Only at certain places you can differentiate between them when they move a differently, albeit very little difference.
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Old 12-10-2015, 07:32 AM   #29
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Are you 100% stock with your tune at this point? If not that throttle position percentage is likely the tune trying to make the throttle feel peppy by overstating your current throttle position.
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Old 12-10-2015, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by FingerTight View Post
Are you 100% stock with your tune at this point? If not that throttle position percentage is likely the tune trying to make the throttle feel peppy by overstating your current throttle position.
Yup 100% stock tune. When I had the 91 octane tune (as mentioned I had it for about a year or so) I had set the throttle position percentage to I think +5% or something. Not a big number, cause I think I could've taken it up a lot higher but I didn't. Tired 10% once, didn't like it.

But as it stands now it's stock. Perhaps I should try put tuning it and bringing down the throttle % thingy and see if that fixes the issue temporarily. If it does at least it's another indication to what the root of the problem might be.

Thanks for the idea

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