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Old 12-15-2016, 09:24 PM
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4.10 gears same as 4.11?

I am thinking of gearing to 4.10's. I see 4.11 gear sets for sale by several manufactures. Are they essentially the same? Will my Procal calibrate 4.11 gears ok?

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Old 12-15-2016, 09:51 PM   #2
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Yup same thing.

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Old 12-16-2016, 06:23 AM
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Why to I read threads saying gearing to 4.10 is much more expensive than 4.56 then? Prices I see for parts are the same for either gear set. I figured maybe I could only get the 4.10 sets from the dealership.
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Old 12-16-2016, 06:28 AM   #4
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Nope - one ends in 10 the other 11 ����������
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Old 12-16-2016, 07:32 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by brandofamily View Post
Why to I read threads saying gearing to 4.10 is much more expensive than 4.56 then? Prices I see for parts are the same for either gear set. I figured maybe I could only get the 4.10 sets from the dealership.
For a while 4.10's were more expensive. Probably due to the fact that nobody upgrades to it, therefore very few companies sell them.
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Old 12-16-2016, 08:09 PM   #6
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4.10's are not the same as 4.11's you have to have both front and rear geared the same so if you have 4.10s in front and 4.11's in the rear your going to destroy something real quick once you start using 4wd if you use 4.11s in front and rear you wont have any issues the gear sets just have to match front and rear
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Old 12-16-2016, 08:14 PM   #7
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4.10's are not the same as 4.11's you have to have both front and rear geared the same so if you have 4.10s in front and 4.11's in the rear your going to destroy something real quick once you start using 4wd if you use 4.11s in front and rear you wont have any issues the gear sets just have to match front and rear
Negative. They are for all purposes the same in a jeep.
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Old 12-16-2016, 08:19 PM   #8
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Negative. They are for all purposes the same in a jeep.
there is an approx 7rpm difference between the 2 at 70mph with 35 inch tires, if you run different ratios in front and rear in 4wd you will break something


if your run 4.11s in front and rear OR 4.10's front and rear it doesnt matter but the ratios have to match period.
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Old 12-16-2016, 08:24 PM   #9
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I have heard that 4 cylinder TJs came with 4:11 in the rear and 4:10 in the front from the factory.
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Old 12-16-2016, 08:35 PM   #10
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there is an approx 7rpm difference between the 2 at 70mph with 35 inch tires, if you run different ratios in front and rear in 4wd you will break something


if your run 4.11s in front and rear OR 4.10's front and rear it doesnt matter but the ratios have to match period.
It's not enough of a difference to break anything. Lots of jeeps run this combo.
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Old 12-16-2016, 08:39 PM   #11
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Divide the number of teeth on the ring gear by the number of teeth on the pinion gear to get the ratio. Anything that close is effectively the same. The 4.10/4.11 probably comes from a different numbers of teeth on the D44 ring/pinion vs. the D30 ring/pinion rounded to two digits to get the same effective ratio.

Even if there WAS a staggering 0.24% difference between them, the transfer case wouldn't notice. You don't go 70mph in a straight line on sticky pavement in 4wd, and the difference in front/rear rotation due to substrate slippage and turning corners FAR exceeds 0.24%.
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Old 12-16-2016, 09:10 PM   #12
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Divide the number of teeth on the ring gear by the number of teeth on the pinion gear to get the ratio. Anything that close is effectively the same. The 4.10/4.11 probably comes from a different numbers of teeth on the D44 ring/pinion vs. the D30 ring/pinion rounded to two digits to get the same effective ratio.

Even if there WAS a staggering 0.24% difference between them, the transfer case wouldn't notice. You don't go 70mph in a straight line on sticky pavement in 4wd, and the difference in front/rear rotation due to substrate slippage and turning corners FAR exceeds 0.24%.
This right here. It's mathematically impossible to get exactly a 4.10 ratio every time.

I forget where I heard the number, it was a big gear manufacturer though. 2% is fine.

Ah, it was randys ring and pinion. 1% is fine on road, 2% is fine offroad. I dont know why you would be running 4wd on road, but whatever.
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Old 12-16-2016, 09:32 PM
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Ok my Procal has a setting to recalibrate to 4.10 gears. The computer won't freak out if I use 4.11 gears and calibrate to 4.10?
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Old 12-16-2016, 10:05 PM   #14
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correct.
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Old 12-17-2016, 12:38 AM   #15
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Seems like I read somewhere that one ratio was used in the front the other in the rear for some reason, I know that 4.10 front and 4.11 rear was used on Fords, definitely not enough to make any difference.
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Old 12-17-2016, 02:02 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by ZiggyJeep View Post
there is an approx 7rpm difference between the 2 at 70mph with 35 inch tires, if you run different ratios in front and rear in 4wd you will break something


if your run 4.11s in front and rear OR 4.10's front and rear it doesnt matter but the ratios have to match period.
No. They don't. They only have to be within 1% of each other.

You get more variance running low pressure in one tire than you get from the difference between 4.10 and 4.11 gears.

In fact, Jeep sold vehicles with 4.11 in the front D30 and 4.09 in the rear D44 and there were absolutely zero problems breaking anything because of it.

The only time you run into problems is if you run wildly different gears. Like 3.73 and 4.10.

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Seems like I read somewhere that one ratio was used in the front the other in the rear for some reason, I know that 4.10 front and 4.11 rear was used on Fords, definitely not enough to make any difference.
It has to do with how many teeth they put on the ring and pinion.

The older generation (pre JK) Dana 30 uses 37 ring gear teeth and 9 pinion teeth. 37/9 = 4.11111111.....

The older generation (pre JK) Dana 44 uses 45 ring gear teeth and 11 pinion teeth. 45/11 = 4.09090909.....

The JK Dana 44 (and Dana 30) uses 41 ring gear teeth and 10 pinion gear teeth. 41/10 = 4.10


There are engineering details that go into choosing the number of teeth. The more teeth you use in a given range of ratios, the smaller they are. But with more teeth, the load is spread out over more of them at a time. However, you can end up with so many teeth that there just isn't room and they end up getting so thin they just don't hold up. So with fewer teeth, each tooth is thicker and stronger. But you don't want to have so few teeth that you have only one tooth making contact at a time. So you find a happy balance.

Smaller gear sets (i.e. old generation D30 vs D44 size) tend to run fewer teeth.
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Old 12-17-2016, 03:32 PM   #17
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Good answers Derf.
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Old 12-21-2016, 05:36 PM   #18
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According to Nigel Tufnel 11 is louder than 10.

Please refer to This is Spinal Tap if you don't understand the comment.
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Old 12-22-2016, 10:31 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by ZiggyJeep View Post
there is an approx 7rpm difference between the 2 at 70mph with 35 inch tires, if you run different ratios in front and rear in 4wd you will break something


if your run 4.11s in front and rear OR 4.10's front and rear it doesnt matter but the ratios have to match period.
If you're doing 70, you don't need to be in 4H
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Old 12-22-2016, 01:38 PM   #20
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According to Nigel Tufnel 11 is louder than 10.

Please refer to This is Spinal Tap if you don't understand the comment.
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Old 12-22-2016, 02:20 PM   #21
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Jerry wrote a great explanation awhile ago.

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That isn't the reason, and having the ratios .01 apart or exactly the same on the street serves no benefit.

The real reason the Wrangler's axle ratios are commonly .01 apart is they have different ring gear diameters front & rear... like Dana 35 & Dana 30, or Dana 44 & Dana 30. Those different ring gear diameters (all made by Dana) make it difficult to machine the gears so their ratios are exactly the same. Which is why our Wranglers come with axle ratio combinations like 3.07/3.08, 3.54/3.55, 3.73/3.74, and 4.10/4.11.

Notice the Rubicon's front & rear axle ratios always match exactly because both of its axles are Dana 44s.

So it's not for the reason that the front tires must turn faster than the rears when turning left or right. First, the front axle isn't driven during turns on the street since we drive in 2wd on the street. The ratio is not even a factor in 2wd. Second, 4x4, where the front axle is driven by the transfer case, is supposed to be used only offroad or on low-traction surfaces... where the front tires slip against low-traction surfaces during turns... even when the ratios are exactly the same as is the case with many 4x4 trucks.

The bottom line is when the ring gears/axle types are the same between the front & rear axles, it is possible to make the ratios identical... the Rubicon for a good example, its front & rear ratios match. It's just when the axle types don't match where it isn't common for the front & rear axle ratios to match.

Which doesn't matter to the Wrangler either way since its 4x4 system is designed only for offroad use where it's fine if the ratios aren't identical.

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