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Old 03-30-2015, 09:47 PM
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A Note About Nittos for Those Considering Trail Grapplers

Well I learned something today a little late lol. So I bought 17x9 wheels with 4.25 backspace and 37x12.5x17 tires - Nitto Trail Grapplers. Couldnt figure out why I was grazing my RK front control arms. I was looking at something else brought up in a WF post on Nittos so went to their website. I didnt find an answer to that posters question....but did resolve my mystery.

The 12.5 width... is actually 13.43! So they size width down. Explains my rub - that is nearly an inch difference. The tires are closer to a 13.5 than a 12.5.

So the dilemma. I doubt I am going to be able to find wheels with an inch less backspace. Do they even make wheels with 3 or 3.25 backspace? I absolutely love the tires. Looks like I may need to consider spacers, which I really didnt want to do. Any other options? I cant adjust that much out of my steering stops obviously.

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Old 03-30-2015, 09:54 PM   #2
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If they are only grazing the control arms, I would try a few washers first to see if that solves it. Quick and free.

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Old 03-30-2015, 09:58 PM   #3
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Define "grazing" if its just barely touching you could probably get away with the sandwich type spacers. If its touching pretty good pick up some 1" spacers. A buddy of mine runs the same tire and he's got some paint missing on his frame from the rub. He's got wheels too. Big ol' tire haha
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Old 03-30-2015, 11:55 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mommymallcrawler View Post
Well I learned something today a little late lol. So I bought 17x9 wheels with 4.25 backspace and 37x12.5x17 tires - Nitto Trail Grapplers. Couldnt figure out why I was grazing my RK front control arms. I was looking at something else brought up in a WF post on Nittos so went to their website. I didnt find an answer to that posters question....but did resolve my mystery.

The 12.5 width... is actually 13.43! So they size width down. Explains my rub - that is nearly an inch difference. The tires are closer to a 13.5 than a 12.5.

So the dilemma. I doubt I am going to be able to find wheels with an inch less backspace. Do they even make wheels with 3 or 3.25 backspace? I absolutely love the tires. Looks like I may need to consider spacers, which I really didnt want to do. Any other options? I cant adjust that much out of my steering stops obviously.
One of my wheeling buddies just bought the 37" Trail Grapplers at the same time he re-geared to 5.13s. Same exact issue that you have... He is running flat fenders and a 3" Mopar lift. (The one with Fox shocks/remote res) He installed his old wheel spacers (He also got new 4.5" back space wheels when he bought the tires) and is still rubbing with approx. 3.5" back space.. I tried to get him to sell me those new tires as they would look and perform SWEET on my Power Wagon but noooooo. He'd rather spend $10,000 on a deluxe 5.5" suspension. (Rock Crawler)

By the way, not to de-rail the thread.... He loves the 37" tires/5.13 gear combo! He has a Rubicon 6 sp with 4.10 gears stock and was running 35" MTRs for a year. We 4x4 on fairly hard trails and the new tire/gear combo are a major improvement... Except for the rubbing.

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Old 03-31-2015, 12:57 AM
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It is rubbing paint off. Not totally into the arm, but contacting paint at full lock. Hmmmm - added to my list of fix its.

Hammertime - are you saying going to RK long arm would move the control arms out of the tires? Or something else? I would feel better doing the long arm upgrade than doing wheel spacers.

Suspension Related Fix It List so Far:
1 Mitigate Effects of Axle Push Back - move one or more or all of rear spring mounts, rear track bar, rear sway bar
2 Relocate/clip brake lines
3 Something about tire rub which does not include changing tires because I really like them
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Old 03-31-2015, 12:59 AM   #6
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you can get Interco Birddog rims 17x9 with 3.5" backspacing.
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Old 03-31-2015, 01:03 AM   #7
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Sorry about the rubbing, mommymallcrawler. Although I envy you for the 37s

Little off topic but while I'm here, how's the road noise for the Trail Grapplers? Husband has some Mud Grapplers on his truck and you can hear them coming about two minutes before you see him!
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Old 03-31-2015, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadmt View Post
you can get Interco Birddog rims 17x9 with 3.5" backspacing.
Hmmmm. Will check these out. Maybe with these and a few washers I can at least lessen the contact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyxcatti View Post
Sorry about the rubbing, mommymallcrawler. Although I envy you for the 37s

Little off topic but while I'm here, how's the road noise for the Trail Grapplers? Husband has some Mud Grapplers on his truck and you can hear them coming about two minutes before you see him!
I have heard the Mud Grapplers are really loud. I wont say the Trail Grapplers are passenger street tire quiet, but I wouldnt say they are loud either. Doesnt bother me. I absolutely love the tires. I will make them work.
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Old 03-31-2015, 01:29 AM   #9
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You must be following every little rut in the road with those 13.5" wide tires...I would go with 12.5" wide tires... big grin..

https://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/jk...l#post16707290

Washers...now your starting to scare me...I hope your kidding...

For what it's worth wheel spacers are no big deal and will fix your problem. Just know how to maintain them with wheel rotations...

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Old 03-31-2015, 01:34 AM   #10
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You must be following every little rut in the road with those 13.5" wide tires...I would go with 12.5" wide tires... big grin..

https://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/jk...l#post16707290

Washers...now your starting to scare me...I hope your kidding...

For what it's worth wheel spacers are no big deal and will fix your problem. Just know how to maintain them with wheel rotations...

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ah that would be for the steering stops not lug nots lol
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Old 03-31-2015, 05:24 AM   #11
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It doesn't help the RK control arms bend up not in line stock. Agree .. Adjust your steering stops if rubbing the CA's.
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Old 03-31-2015, 09:53 AM   #12
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Steering stops are bolts in the knuckles not washers...or am I missing something...?
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Old 03-31-2015, 10:40 AM   #13
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Steering stops are bolts in the knuckles not washers...or am I missing something...?
Yes, you put washers between the knuckle and bolt.
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Old 03-31-2015, 11:58 AM   #14
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Just looked at my JK...I see now. My CJ uses a jam nut behind the bolt...

Thanks,

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Old 03-31-2015, 09:39 PM   #15
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I had some rubbing with my 35's so I added the washers to my steer stops, and with my 37's installed I didn't have any rubbing. Same tires and wheel size however I think my backspacing was a little higher than what was mentioned
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Old 03-31-2015, 10:21 PM
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I talked to the shop that has my rig installing my hydroassist. He gave me some options:

Option A: do nothing and let it rub - it isnt enough into the arms to bother anything other than paint
Option B: new wheels like the Birddogs with lower backspace
Option C: long arm upgrade may buy a little room because it shifts the arms a little inboard

He did not recommend wheel spacers. He also did not recommend washers in the steering stops.

For now I am going to wait it out with Option A until I decide on B or C. Or until an unplanned upgrade opportunity presents itself - like bending a wheel most likely.

I need to get my rear end issues addressed first lol (relocating sway bar, track bar and maybe coils - waiting on my other shop to get back to me with an estimate and defined plan of attack).
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Old 03-31-2015, 10:55 PM   #17
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It is rubbing paint off. Not totally into the arm, but contacting paint at full lock. Hmmmm - added to my list of fix its.

Hammertime - are you saying going to RK long arm would move the control arms out of the tires? Or something else? I would feel better doing the long arm upgrade than doing wheel spacers.

Suspension Related Fix It List so Far:
1 Mitigate Effects of Axle Push Back - move one or more or all of rear spring mounts, rear track bar, rear sway bar
2 Relocate/clip brake lines
3 Something about tire rub which does not include changing tires because I really like them
I will not know for sure until the lift kit is installed on his rig... He ordered it 3 weeks ago and it's still not here. I understand the kit he has on order is not stocked. It is build it when ordered...

I will definitely let you know when it's installed, but now that you mention the wide track I'm thinking it may still rub with his 4.5" backspace rims. I'm not sure about the JKs but Carli, Thuren and a couple other vendors make control arms that actually bend away from the tires for Ram heavy duties. With a 2" level and the offset control arms I could run 37"s without rubbing on my Power Wagon... Well, I'm not sure about 13.4" track width tires though!

I'll keep you posted.
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Old 03-31-2015, 10:59 PM
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Thanks Hammertime! My shop said the LA "may" help as the arms shift a little, but he couldnt guarantee it would eliminate the issue altogether. So curious to see how your friends lift plays out.
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Old 03-31-2015, 11:49 PM   #19
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My toyos rub my MC arms at full lock so I just TRY not to go full lock as much as I can. They're doing what you describe and just rub the paint off. I also have 4.5 back spacing and a 13.5 wide tire
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Old 04-01-2015, 04:21 AM   #20
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I talked to the shop that has my rig installing my hydroassist. He gave me some options:

Option A: do nothing and let it rub - it isnt enough into the arms to bother anything other than paint
Option B: new wheels like the Birddogs with lower backspace
Option C: long arm upgrade may buy a little room because it shifts the arms a little inboard

He did not recommend wheel spacers. He also did not recommend washers in the steering stops.

For now I am going to wait it out with Option A until I decide on B or C. Or until an unplanned upgrade opportunity presents itself - like bending a wheel most likely.

I need to get my rear end issues addressed first lol (relocating sway bar, track bar and maybe coils - waiting on my other shop to get back to me with an estimate and defined plan of attack).

If you install washers you probably will NOT notice the reduction in turning radius, or you can put enough armor all on your tires to keep your control arms rust free. Oh wait, you live in AZ..

Now if you're one of those credit card Jeepers just throw down for the Long Arm and sleep better at night knowing your shop is happy. Just curious, how many shops do you have?
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Old 04-01-2015, 04:31 AM   #21
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He also did not recommend washers in the steering stops.

Of course he didn't, he's in the business of making money. $1 in washers isn't gonna do that for him. The washers will not hurt you one bit, TJ'ers have been running them for years.

I'm sure someone has put out a "steering stop mod...PSA" on WF if you care to search.

Now no need to search
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f96/d...stops-1165511/
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Old 04-01-2015, 07:44 AM
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If you install washers you probably will NOT notice the reduction in turning radius, or you can put enough armor all on your tires to keep your control arms rust free. Oh wait, you live in AZ..

Now if you're one of those credit card Jeepers just throw down for the Long Arm and sleep better at night knowing your shop is happy. Just curious, how many shops do you have?
ARMOR ALL would get me laughed out of the offroad community here lol! Folks Armor All each others tires in surprise attacks as a joke. One board member here Armor Alled his tires, and took his rig into the shop. They laughed and told him to go burn down whatever car wash did that to a Jeep. He confessed he did it himself at home. They told him to go burn down his own house then. LOL

I have 2 shops that know my rig. And the shop guys know each other very well. One shop is the "old school Jeepers through and through", the guys who have wheeled forever, the shop has been around like forever. The other is a bit newer, guys who race KOH and stuff like that. Two slightly different perspectives on some things - and options are always good. Our offroad community here is HUGE - if I bust up my rig on a weekend and shop A cant get to it for 2 weeks as they are booked solid, shop B would also know my rig and may be able to fit me in. Always good to have options.

There are a large number of other offroad shops here who specialize in Jeeps as well. Jeeps and offroad are huge in Phoenix.

And gixxerphil, neither of these shops do upsell. In fact, his preferred option he recommended first was absolutely free - do nothing, not necessary. And while I didnt think it was really relevant to my earlier post, he even caveated the LA with "if you want to do it for performance reasons rather than just rub, although it may help with the rub".
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Old 04-01-2015, 08:53 AM   #23
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I don't I been following a lot of your posts and I am not sure I would have much confidence in the shops you use based on your troubles. Not meant as a jab just what I have noticed.
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Old 04-01-2015, 02:29 PM   #24
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I have 35x12.5x17 trail grapplers and the same pro comp 4.25" bs wheels as you. I'm also running 1.5" wheel spacers and STILL have signs of rubbing
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Old 04-01-2015, 02:36 PM   #25
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swap them out for some cooper stt. besides nitto sponsored that eddieoh jack donkey.
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Old 04-01-2015, 02:56 PM   #26
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Mommy,

When you said,

"He did not recommend wheel spacers. He also did not recommend washers in the steering stops."

Did he give you a reason as to why?

As I can't see, for the life of me, the difference between a 1.5" wheel spacer combined with a 5" Back Spaced wheel and a 3.5" Back spaced wheel... other than minor maintenance every wheel rotation...

Just curious to what they had to say.

Lastly, is the shop installing the PCS hydro?

SC
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Old 04-01-2015, 03:05 PM   #27
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I'll be in AZ next week... I'll swap you out my MTRk's when I get there!

In all seriousness quality wheels spacers will do you just fine, I know people that wheel pretty hard and never had a problem with them. I run them too cause my AEV wheels and Coilovers require the width.

There's lots of wheels with 3.5" backspacing... Slabs, racelines, trail readys, take your pick!

Look at almost any rebel build with methods and coilover's... They have spacers.

Tif you end up running RCV's your gonna have to adjust the stops anyway so the cv's don't bind
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Old 04-01-2015, 03:11 PM   #28
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I was gonna mention those, but I think she is looking for 3.0 and 3.25 BS. Not sure of any that makes em off the shelf for a JK less than 3.5.

My Spyderloks came as a 3.5 BS with 37 Toyos 13.5s and no rub issues. No RK CAs, though.
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Old 04-01-2015, 03:16 PM
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I have 35x12.5x17 trail grapplers and the same pro comp 4.25" bs wheels as you. I'm also running 1.5" wheel spacers and STILL have signs of rubbing
The 35s are over 13 inches wide as well.

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Mommy,

When you said,

"He did not recommend wheel spacers. He also did not recommend washers in the steering stops."

Did he give you a reason as to why?

As I can't see, for the life of me, the difference between a 1.5" wheel spacer combined with a 5" Back Spaced wheel and a 3.5" Back spaced wheel... other than minor maintenance every wheel rotation...

Just curious to what they had to say.

Lastly, is the shop installing the PCS hydro?

SC
He said spacers were not as strong and just add another failure point. Yes, they are installing the full PSC hydroassist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDgasser View Post
I'll be in AZ next week... I'll swap you out my MTRk's when I get there!

In all seriousness quality wheels spacers will do you just fine, I know people that wheel pretty hard and never had a problem with them. I run them too cause my AEV wheels and Coilovers require the width.

There's lots of wheels with 3.5" backspacing... Slabs, racelines, trail readys, take your pick!

Look at almost any rebel build with methods and coilover's... They have spacers.

Tif you end up running RCV's your gonna have to adjust the stops anyway so the cv's don't bind
Lol! My Lunatic (aka boyfriend who is also a member here) has MTRKs and does not like them. He likes my Nittos. I do love the Nittos - boss in the rocks. I suspect whenever I toast my first wheel (which playing in rocks will be when not if) I will just replace them all with lower backspace. I may consider beadlocks, but kinda dig the look of the Birddogs even tho not a beadlock.

I am sort of anti-RCV on the stock 44. If/when I upgrade axles, for sure. (Lunatic has them because he has boatloads more torque in his rig with a Hemi). On my 44s, even tho I am fully trussed, I would rather grenade my shafts if something has to give.

What brings you to Arizona? If you are up for some weekend wheeling when you are here, hit us up on the Arizona board here.

Coilovers = drool.
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2014 JKR Granite Crystal, 5.13 Auto: RK X Factor 2.5 Inch Lift, Artec Front and Rear Truss, Artec Rear LCA Mounts/Skids, Poison Spyder HD Crossmember, Rock Hard Gas/TC/Evap/Oil Skids, Rough Country Diff Sliders, Nitto Trail Grapplers 37x12.5x17, Pro Comp 97 Series Wheels, Synergy Weld On Rear Trackbar Bracket, PSC Hydroassist, T6 Aluminum Tie Rod, G2 Gold Chromoly Axle Shaft/RCV front axle shaft, Dynatrac Ball Joints, 1310 driveshafts, Artec Rear Upper CA Mounts, Warn VR8000.
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Old 04-01-2015, 03:29 PM   #30
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Location: Long beach
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Originally Posted by mommymallcrawler View Post
The 35s are over 13 inches wide as well.



He said spacers were not as strong and just add another failure point. Yes, they are installing the full PSC hydroassist.



Lol! My Lunatic (aka boyfriend who is also a member here) has MTRKs and does not like them. He likes my Nittos. I do love the Nittos - boss in the rocks. I suspect whenever I toast my first wheel (which playing in rocks will be when not if) I will just replace them all with lower backspace. I may consider beadlocks, but kinda dig the look of the Birddogs even tho not a beadlock.

I am sort of anti-RCV on the stock 44. If/when I upgrade axles, for sure. (Lunatic has them because he has boatloads more torque in his rig with a Hemi). On my 44s, even tho I am fully trussed, I would rather grenade my shafts if something has to give.

What brings you to Arizona? If you are up for some weekend wheeling when you are here, hit us up on the Arizona board here.

Coilovers = drool.
Rcv's are kinda overkill. I'm running them on my ProRock 44 up front. Tell him to show you a case of wheel adapter failure... He'd be hard pressed to find one I bet. Hell I have them on the back of my dually so I can run 33's. Pulls an 15k lb toyhauler and makes about 1000ft lbs of torque to the wheels.

My parents just bought a retirement house in Waddell with a bitchin ass pool on a 1/2 acre... They can see the white tanks from there back yard. Lucky them for getting the hell outta cali! We're going to party and break in the neighbors, don't think I'm taking the jeep this time but I will definetly hit you guys up im a noob to wheeling in AZ!

Plus it'd be nice to see another hemi j/k... Not to many around my neighborhood.

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