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Old 08-31-2016, 07:29 PM
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Adjustable drag link or flip for 2.5 lift???

Ok, so in a few months ago I put in a TF adjustable track bar to center the front axle. AEV 2.5 frankenlift (fixed lower LCAs instead of drop brackets & JKS links instead of sway bar brackets).

Axle is centered and ride is very stable about 95 percent of the time. Occasionally I hit an imperfection in the road that sends me sideways though. Could just be the nature of beast, but unsettling to say the least.

So in the search for perfect steering geometry (or just being extremely anal retentive) I take a good look at the relative track bar/drag link angles. Visually (frame to axle on each) they might be off 5 degrees? Maybe 10 tops? I'm assuming when I lengthened the TB to push the axle back passenger side it flattened the angle relative to the drag link.

So at 2.5 (maybe close to 3 actual) on a 2 door what are my options? More importantly, anything to really be gained in terms of real world handling/bump steer correction? Drag link flip? Seems like most are for 3+ inches of lift. Axle side track bar bracket? That's for 3+ too & would negate the need for the adjustable TB IMO. Adjustable drag link? Seems like the drag link is already adjustable at the sleeve so I'm not sure there is such a thing. Steering attenuators???

Just leave it & be happy she drives as well as she does?


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Old 09-01-2016, 06:24 AM   #2
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Eh at 2.5 you should not need a drag link flip. You can but w/ required 3" stop you will have minimal up travel.

If you want a drag link upgrade check out the Yeti 26 (standard mount) by SteerSmarts.
You can buy both Yeti 26 and Attenuator together since you mentioned it.
Edit hmm i dont see a standard mount Yeti 26
I will check with Ron. The attenuator is a nice upgrade nonetheless.

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Old 09-01-2016, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Eh at 2.5 you should not need a drag link flip. You can but w/ required 3" stop you will have minimal up travel.

If you want a drag link upgrade check out the Yeti 26 (standard mount) by SteerSmarts.
You can buy both Yeti 26 and Attenuator together since you mentioned it.
Edit hmm i dont see a standard mount Yeti 26
I will check with Ron. The attenuator is a nice upgrade nonetheless.


Thanks Ken, I didn't think there was anything to be done to correct the minimal gap in TB & DL angles at 2.5.

Would the attenuator have any clearance issues with the teraflex TB hoop? Does it require any maintenance?


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Old 09-01-2016, 07:40 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by JeepR kReapR View Post
Thanks Ken, I didn't think there was anything to be done to correct the minimal gap in TB & DL angles at 2.5. Would the attenuator have any clearance issues with the teraflex TB hoop? Does it require any maintenance? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No and no.
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Old 09-01-2016, 08:09 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepR kReapR View Post
Ok, so in a few months ago I put in a TF adjustable track bar to center the front axle. AEV 2.5 frankenlift (fixed lower LCAs instead of drop brackets & JKS links instead of sway bar brackets).

Axle is centered and ride is very stable about 95 percent of the time. Occasionally I hit an imperfection in the road that sends me sideways though. Could just be the nature of beast, but unsettling to say the least.

So in the search for perfect steering geometry (or just being extremely anal retentive) I take a good look at the relative track bar/drag link angles. Visually (frame to axle on each) they might be off 5 degrees? Maybe 10 tops? I'm assuming when I lengthened the TB to push the axle back passenger side it flattened the angle relative to the drag link.

So at 2.5 (maybe close to 3 actual) on a 2 door what are my options? More importantly, anything to really be gained in terms of real world handling/bump steer correction? Drag link flip? Seems like most are for 3+ inches of lift. Axle side track bar bracket? That's for 3+ too & would negate the need for the adjustable TB IMO. Adjustable drag link? Seems like the drag link is already adjustable at the sleeve so I'm not sure there is such a thing. Steering attenuators???

Just leave it & be happy she drives as well as she does?


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These items are all for 3"+ of lift because there are packaging issues with the front suspension....AKA things will hit each other...if you install a front trackbar bracket - and if you install a front trackbar bracket, you would be required to do a drag link flip kit as well or it will make your handling even worse.

What you should be considering is the control arm geometry which is what is causing your unpredictable sideways driving action, this is just as important as 'steering geometry' (which is not affected enough at 2.5" of lift to harm anything). Drop brackets are the way to go and I guarantee will fix your problem....you can put on adjustable control arms, aftermarket fixed control arms, none of it matters because they cannot change the angle of the control arm to improve your instant center, which gets totally thrown off due to the control arms increase in angle. AEV drop brackets are only $105, and you will be thrilled with the improved drivability
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Old 09-01-2016, 08:45 AM
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These items are all for 3"+ of lift because there are packaging issues with the front suspension....AKA things will hit each other...if you install a front trackbar bracket - and if you install a front trackbar bracket, you would be required to do a drag link flip kit as well or it will make your handling even worse.

What you should be considering is the control arm geometry which is what is causing your unpredictable sideways driving action, this is just as important as 'steering geometry' (which is not affected enough at 2.5" of lift to harm anything). Drop brackets are the way to go and I guarantee will fix your problem....you can put on adjustable control arms, aftermarket fixed control arms, none of it matters because they cannot change the angle of the control arm to improve your instant center, which gets totally thrown off due to the control arms increase in angle. AEV drop brackets are only $105, and you will be thrilled with the improved drivability
I had the AEV drop brackets and replaced them with Synergy fixed LCAs. I really don't think there is a problem per se...I hit one large pothole at speed and it threw the Jeep off, it would probably happen no matter how well the geometry is dailed in with a lifted application. It drives great almost all the time and I'm really just picking at nits. I realized one thing I hadn't looked at was TB/DL angles and it just got me thinking.

I understand the drop brackets put the stock CAs paralellel with the ground which eliminates nose dive and helps counteract lateral axle movement as well. To be honest I got lateral 'jumps' like this on occasion when I had the AEV brackets as well so I'm not sure that would correct this specific issue, it would eliminate the minimal nose dive I've had since I swapped them for fixed LCAs almost a year ago though, but it's not enough that it's bothersome or not stable.

You bring up a good point though. The upper control arms might be something else to check. I know the brackets put those parallel to the ground as well. I never considered putting in front adjustable uppers but I'll measure the pinion angle, caster & axle position and if there's some room for play perhaps a slightly longer upper would bring it closer to the angle of the LCAs. Again, picking at nits @ 2.5

I know the brackets are the only thing that puts all front LCAs perfectly parallel in a lifted application, but I play on some steep rock ledges and I got tired of snagging/dragging on them. I have not had that issue with the synergy fixed LCAs. At 2.5 lift clearance is a bit more of an issue than at 3.5 or more when rock crawling IMO.

@Ken , I'll drop Ron a note as well. Steersmarts HQ is pretty close to me, this might be reason enough to stop by.

I checked the steersmarts page too and the only non-flipped JK DL I saw was the extreme draglink, doesn't come with the attenuator. For my application I think it would be more cost effective to just try the attenuator first:

http://steersmarts.com/products/yeti...-duty-draglink
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Old 09-01-2016, 08:53 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepR kReapR View Post
Thanks Ken, I didn't think there was anything to be done to correct the minimal gap in TB & DL angles at 2.5.

Would the attenuator have any clearance issues with the teraflex TB hoop? Does it require any maintenance?


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Our Griffin Attenuator will clear everything that the stock adjuster clears since we didn't make it any larger than the adjuster.

Our YETI 26 was made for conversion shops that use the MOPAR right hand drive draglinks for top mounting the knuckle. It's a HD "no drill" option for lift kits with a induction heat treated stud on steel bearings. We do not make a bottom mount YETI 26 HD.
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Old 09-01-2016, 09:01 AM   #8
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How is the condition of the DL joints. Ive had my stock joints wear. A friend had the same happen which caused odd handling.
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Old 09-01-2016, 09:12 AM
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Our Griffin Attenuator will clear everything that the stock adjuster clears since we didn't make it any larger than the adjuster.

Our YETI 26 was made for conversion shops that use the MOPAR right hand drive draglinks for top mounting the knuckle. It's a HD "no drill" option for lift kits with a induction heat treated stud on steel bearings. We do not make a bottom mount YETI 26 HD.
Thanks Ron! I still have to stop by...you guys have any attenuators in stock that I could buy if I do or are you HQ/R&D only at your location?

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Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
How is the condition of the DL joints. Ive had my stock joints wear. A friend had the same happen which caused odd handling.

Not sure Ken, with the Jeep only being only 18 months old I haven't inspected much for wear yet. It has been wheeled a bit though. What specifically should I look at on the stock DL at the pitman & steering knuckle ends for signs of wear?

EDIT: I will say both the DL and the Tie rod 'flop' quite a bit, so replacements of each with better joints are in the plans at some point (even if I don't need a flipped DL), just not until they are absolutely needed.
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Old 09-01-2016, 09:33 AM
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@Compliant , looks like I might want to wait for October 1st to grab an attenuator (HD version?). My annual Drummond Island trip is October 7th, got any pre-release versions sitting around the office you'd like me to trail test for you?
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Old 09-01-2016, 10:21 AM   #11
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My stock 2 door can get a little sideways in certain spots, like some railroad tracks in the middle of a curve. I think that's just how it is with solid axles and a huge front swaybar on kind of a short wheelbase.
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Old 09-01-2016, 10:27 AM
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Adjustable drag link or flip for 2.5 lift???

Quote:
Originally Posted by milfblaster View Post
My stock 2 door can get a little sideways in certain spots, like some railroad tracks in the middle of a curve. I think that's just how it is with solid axles and a huge front swaybar on kind of a short wheelbase.


I feel that's the case here MB, 20 years ago when I was a kid with a mustang GT with a live rear axle (about the time I got into jeeps) the rear end would kick out a bit if I was applying enough torque to the wheels over bumps. Front is a little scarier though since that's the steering end

I'll still look into the attenuator though, & check on the DL link ends as Ken recommended


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Old 09-01-2016, 10:28 AM   #13
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@Compliant , looks like I might want to wait for October 1st to grab an attenuator (HD version?). My annual Drummond Island trip is October 7th, got any pre-release versions sitting around the office you'd like me to trail test for you?
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Old 09-01-2016, 10:54 AM
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Have somebody turn the wheel back and forth in park. Look at the ends... A bad one will pop up and down.


Awesome, will do Ken!

And I should have figured you'd have an HD already on your rig!!!


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Old 09-01-2016, 08:13 PM   #16
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Is the hd griffin available? It wasnt when i ordered the yeti steering in nov
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Old 09-02-2016, 06:39 AM   #17
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Is the hd griffin available? It wasnt when i ordered the yeti steering in nov
Soon i believe Ron Said a month.
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Old 09-02-2016, 06:32 PM
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Adjustable drag link or flip for 2.5 lift???

Yep, Ron said October first, I'm guessing the HD is for larger diameter DLs like theirs & they'll still offer the standard for stock.

I haven't measured the DL & TB angles yet but looking at them today it looks like the TB is 3 to 5 degrees flatter since I lengthened it to center the axle (at most). I don't think there is any way to get them exactly parralel with the stock mounts & probably no benefit to doing so.

Still have to check out the DL joints this weekend, and I'm still interested in the attenuator. Aside from on road drivability, any benefits to the attenuator while wheeling? Like less feed back to the wheel over river rocks gardens or washboards????


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Old 09-02-2016, 06:55 PM   #19
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Yep, Ron said October first, I'm guessing the HD is for larger diameter DLs like theirs & they'll still offer the standard for stock. I haven't measured the DL & TB angles yet but looking at them today it looks like the TB is 3 to 5 degrees flatter since I lengthened it to center the axle (at most). I don't think there is any way to get them exactly parralel with the stock mounts & probably no benefit to doing so. Still have to check out the DL joints this weekend, and I'm still interested in the attenuator. Aside from on road drivability, any benefits to the attunutir while wheeling? Like less feed back to the wheel over river rocks or washboards???? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Washboards maybe .. But generally no.
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Old 09-03-2016, 03:39 PM   #20
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Soon i believe Ron Said a month.
That's the date that I'm promising but might be a week sooner.

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