Grade 8 nut and bolt won't torque. - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Tech Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 10-12-2014, 12:28 AM
Thread Starter
  #1
Jeeper
 
willwork4sushi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 672
Grade 8 nut and bolt won't torque.

So I took off my track bar tonight to do some other work. I replaced both ends of the track bar with grade 8 nuts and bolts and this has never been an issue. I go to reinstall the track bar back to the axle and I would say after about 80 ft lbs it just gives way and then loosens again. Oddly enough, you can then re-torque back to that point again and then it gives way.

I took the nut and bolt out and was able to fully thred the nut down all the way, so I know the threads are still good. I'm really at a loss for exactly what's happening. Any thoughts? I fear if I don't fix this it's goign to lead to DW.

__________________
2014 JKU||Granite Crystal||Willys Wheeler Edition
willwork4sushi is offline   Quote
Old 10-12-2014, 12:37 AM   #2
Jeeper
 
BlueJeepster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 96
Stripped, get a new nut and bolt.

__________________
2015 Hydro Blue Wrangler Sport
Terraflex leveling kit
BlueJeepster is offline   Quote
Old 10-12-2014, 01:58 AM   #3
pie
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 75
Sounds like you have exceeded the torque value for the fastener used. The bolt sounds fine, is it possible that the nuts you are using aren't grade 8?

Bolt Torque Chart | Portland Bolt
pie is offline   Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-12-2014, 08:51 AM   #4
BE AWARE OF THE DRAGON..

5-Year WF Supporting Member
WF Lifetime Member
 
Old Dogger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hot as Hell Arizona, the home of the mighty Dragon. Beware of your surrounding, because of DANGER!
Posts: 30,167
Attachment 1557114

^^^Make sure that you stay within these torque values.
Please note that there is a difference between the values for NC, verses NF!!!!!!!!!
But either 9/16 bolt, grade 8, should handle 120 ft. lbs., without a issue.

Are you sure that they are grade 8? Where did you purchase the bolts and nuts?
Ace Hardware stocks quality grade 8s!!!!!!!

When was the last time that you had your Torque Wrench calibrated???
__________________
1974 CJ5, 2003 TJ, 2013 2 door Black Rubicon, auto, with 4.10 ratio.
Shaking at 40-70 MPH, Read this!!!

The Mighty Grizzly is not concerned,
with
the needs of the Hunter....


Click here and become a WF supporting Member
Old Dogger is offline   Quote
Old 10-12-2014, 09:03 AM   #5
Jeeper
 
Freedom JK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 2,523
It sounds like a bad thread on either the bolt or nut. You can pick up a new grade 8 nut and bolt for about $5 at a hardware store. I would replace the bolt and nut. Make sure you use an all metal lock nut, not one with a nylon insert. I replaced the bolts and nuts on my control arms and track bar and torqued them all and nothing has loosened at all. I marked the nuts with a paint pen so that I could tell if any thing loosened.
Freedom JK is offline   Quote
Old 10-12-2014, 11:00 PM
Thread Starter
  #6
Jeeper
 
willwork4sushi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 672
Thanks for all the info guys. Yes, the bolts were grade 8 purchased from Ace. I called them earlier and expalined my issue. I dind't get a super clear anwser from the sales associate, but he basically said that he's seen grade 8 hardware lose the ability to be re-torqued to a high ft lbs if it was already initially torqued under high load.

I went and got a new 9/16 bolt, nut, and thread locker, and what would you know, no issues. Torqued right up to 125 without issues. Additionally, I examined the faulty nut and bolt and when you thread it there is slight play in the nut when it's theaded on the bolt. I wonder how it seemingly deteriorated? It had only been on the rig for 5 months or so and I had never taken it off prior to this.
__________________
2014 JKU||Granite Crystal||Willys Wheeler Edition
willwork4sushi is offline   Quote
Old 10-13-2014, 02:44 AM   #7
WF Moderator

WF Lifetime Member
WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
kjeeper10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 53,748
This happens to me if the bolt was loosened ret-torqued more than a few times. The nut locking up on the bolt is more common. I've had to cut the nut off.
kjeeper10 is offline   Quote
Old 10-13-2014, 03:04 AM   #8
Jeeper
 
COStrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
This happens to me if the bolt was loosened ret-torqued more than a few times. The nut locking up on the bolt is more common. I've had to cut the nut off.
never cut the nuts off omg. Ouch!!! LOL. Jk
__________________
We do not take risks to escape life, but to keep life from escaping us.-Unknown
COStrider is offline   Quote
Old 10-13-2014, 03:46 AM   #9
Jeeper
 
Tweak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Whidbey Island, WA
Posts: 6,202
so wait, you get it to 80 ftlbs and then it loses torque and then you get it to 80 ftlbs and it loses torque..... like it is jumping the threads?

this should not be happening. are you sure they are both the same size and thread type? a grade 8 bolt, especially a 9/16" should last you a pretty long time and be reusable dozens of times.
Tweak is offline   Quote
Old 10-13-2014, 05:43 AM   #10
BE AWARE OF THE DRAGON..

5-Year WF Supporting Member
WF Lifetime Member
 
Old Dogger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hot as Hell Arizona, the home of the mighty Dragon. Beware of your surrounding, because of DANGER!
Posts: 30,167
Quote:
Originally Posted by willwork4sushi View Post
Thanks for all the info guys. Yes, the bolts were grade 8 purchased from Ace. I called them earlier and expalined my issue. I dind't get a super clear anwser from the sales associate, but he basically said that he's seen grade 8 hardware lose the ability to be re-torqued to a high ft lbs if it was already initially torqued under high load.

I went and got a new 9/16 bolt, nut, and thread locker, and what would you know, no issues. Torqued right up to 125 without issues. Additionally, I examined the faulty nut and bolt and when you thread it there is slight play in the nut when it's theaded on the bolt. I wonder how it seemingly deteriorated? It had only been on the rig for 5 months or so and I had never taken it off prior to this.
It sounds like the Rockwell Hardness was not up to spec, therefore, being defective!!!!!!
It's very doubtful that you will have this issue, a second time!

It is also important, to keep your torque wrench calibrated.......
__________________
1974 CJ5, 2003 TJ, 2013 2 door Black Rubicon, auto, with 4.10 ratio.
Shaking at 40-70 MPH, Read this!!!

The Mighty Grizzly is not concerned,
with
the needs of the Hunter....


Click here and become a WF supporting Member
Old Dogger is offline   Quote
Old 10-13-2014, 10:09 AM
Thread Starter
  #11
Jeeper
 
willwork4sushi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweak View Post
so wait, you get it to 80 ftlbs and then it loses torque and then you get it to 80 ftlbs and it loses torque..... like it is jumping the threads?

this should not be happening. are you sure they are both the same size and thread type? a grade 8 bolt, especially a 9/16" should last you a pretty long time and be reusable dozens of times.
I'm absolutely positive they were the same size. Ace Hardware has their hardware sorted pretty neatly. All the 9/16 stuff all clustered together. I got (2) 9/16 nuts, (2) 9/16-3.5" bolts, and (4) 9/16 washers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Dogger View Post
It sounds like the Rockwell Hardness was not up to spec, therefore, being defective!!!!!!
It's very doubtful that you will have this issue, a second time!

It is also important, to keep your torque wrench calibrated.......
That is good to hear in regards to the Rockwell Hardness.

I try to re-calibrate it every year. Should I try to do it more frequently?
__________________
2014 JKU||Granite Crystal||Willys Wheeler Edition
willwork4sushi is offline   Quote
Old 10-13-2014, 10:23 AM   #12
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 4,136
Op said the nut was loose on the bolt. Either a manufacturer defect or a size mix up. I have seen metric and US standard mixups of the same thread pitch do this.

Bob K.
nwbronco is offline   Quote
Old 10-13-2014, 11:02 AM
Thread Starter
  #13
Jeeper
 
willwork4sushi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwbronco View Post
Op said the nut was loose on the bolt. Either a manufacturer defect or a size mix up. I have seen metric and US standard mixups of the same thread pitch do this.

Bob K.
Bob,

I did not inspect the original nut and bolt in regards to its movement while threaded, but I definitely checked yesterday when I got the replacement. It was definitely the right thread pitch with zero movement when threaded on the bolt.
__________________
2014 JKU||Granite Crystal||Willys Wheeler Edition
willwork4sushi is offline   Quote
Old 10-13-2014, 01:04 PM   #14
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 4,136
Sweet. Good to hear you got it worked out.
nwbronco is offline   Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 09:01 AM   #15
WF Moderator

WF Lifetime Member
WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
kjeeper10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 53,748
I'll post this here

So ... Opinions ?
More so with Big B's post.
http://wayalife.com/showthread.php?t=21036

Just baffles me why this is the only forum that advises against the bolt upgrade.
kjeeper10 is offline   Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 09:27 AM   #16
Moderator

WF Lifetime Member
WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
jadmt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: missoula
Posts: 21,524
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
I'll post this here

So ... Opinions ?
More so with Big B's post.
Jeep JK Wrangler Grade 8 Replacement Bolts - Do I Really Need Them?

Just baffles me why this is the only forum that advises against the bolt upgrade.
I am sure you know that wayalife only promotes products that pay him or he gets for free. I have followed that forum from time to time over the years and was run off for voicing my opinion that AEV and Teraflex were good stuff. Both companies did not pay him so he says they are junk.
jadmt is offline   Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 10:04 AM
Thread Starter
  #17
Jeeper
 
willwork4sushi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadmt View Post
I am sure you know that wayalife only promotes products that pay him or he gets for free. I have followed that forum from time to time over the years and was run off for voicing my opinion that AEV and Teraflex were good stuff. Both companies did not pay him so he says they are junk.
I am not a member on his forum, but I have noticed when I've done some research on various products, that he bashes various things big time. Interesting.
__________________
2014 JKU||Granite Crystal||Willys Wheeler Edition
willwork4sushi is offline   Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 10:06 AM   #18
WF Moderator

WF Lifetime Member
WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
kjeeper10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 53,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadmt View Post
I am sure you know that wayalife only promotes products that pay him or he gets for free. I have followed that forum from time to time over the years and was run off for voicing my opinion that AEV and Teraflex were good stuff. Both companies did not pay him so he says they are junk.
Fully aware of the way he does things. Somebody did make a sensible post .. Unfortunately It was deleted
kjeeper10 is offline   Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 09:32 PM   #19
BE AWARE OF THE DRAGON..

5-Year WF Supporting Member
WF Lifetime Member
 
Old Dogger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hot as Hell Arizona, the home of the mighty Dragon. Beware of your surrounding, because of DANGER!
Posts: 30,167
Quote:
Originally Posted by willwork4sushi View Post
I'm absolutely positive they were the same size. Ace Hardware has their hardware sorted pretty neatly. All the 9/16 stuff all clustered together. I got (2) 9/16 nuts, (2) 9/16-3.5" bolts, and (4) 9/16 washers.



That is good to hear in regards to the Rockwell Hardness.

I try to re-calibrate it every year. Should I try to do it more frequently?
Nope, once a year is adequate, even for shop usage........
__________________
1974 CJ5, 2003 TJ, 2013 2 door Black Rubicon, auto, with 4.10 ratio.
Shaking at 40-70 MPH, Read this!!!

The Mighty Grizzly is not concerned,
with
the needs of the Hunter....


Click here and become a WF supporting Member
Old Dogger is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 02:43 AM   #20
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
m998dna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,657
Think con rods...

https://www.fastenal.com/web/en/77/reuse-of-fasteners

I would never reuse con rod fasteners or suspension fasteners. Especially U-bolts on rear axles.

.02

.
__________________
10A
m998dna is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 05:30 AM   #21
Jeeper
 
knight1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: pittsburgh pa
Posts: 17
Try a locking type nut with teflon on the end. That the way they come. And use red locktite.
knight1 is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 05:51 AM   #22
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1
Yielded Hardware

Quote:
Originally Posted by willwork4sushi View Post
So I took off my track bar tonight to do some other work. I replaced both ends of the track bar with grade 8 nuts and bolts and this has never been an issue. I go to reinstall the track bar back to the axle and I would say after about 80 ft lbs it just gives way and then loosens again. Oddly enough, you can then re-torque back to that point again and then it gives way.

I took the nut and bolt out and was able to fully thred the nut down all the way, so I know the threads are still good. I'm really at a loss for exactly what's happening. Any thoughts? I fear if I don't fix this it's goign to lead to DW.
Try a dry molly lube the K-factor is .12, and the nuts are made of a stronger material. If you don't used some lube the friction will cause you to gail the stud or yield the stud. A bolt is like a spring if you stretch it pass its limits it will not spring back. Also try adding a washer and lube the face of the nut that will rest on top of the washer.
mbaca is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 12:00 PM
Thread Starter
  #23
Jeeper
 
willwork4sushi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by m998dna View Post
Think con rods...

https://www.fastenal.com/web/en/77/reuse-of-fasteners

I would never reuse con rod fasteners or suspension fasteners. Especially U-bolts on rear axles.

.02

.
Wow! Great resource right there. Thanks so much!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbaca View Post
Try a dry molly lube the K-factor is .12, and the nuts are made of a stronger material. If you don't used some lube the friction will cause you to gail the stud or yield the stud. A bolt is like a spring if you stretch it pass its limits it will not spring back. Also try adding a washer and lube the face of the nut that will rest on top of the washer.
Very good info as well. Thanks a lot Mbaca.
__________________
2014 JKU||Granite Crystal||Willys Wheeler Edition
willwork4sushi is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 12:21 PM   #24
Jeeper
 
flyfishnevada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Smith, Nevada
Posts: 2,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
I'll post this here

So ... Opinions ?
More so with Big B's post.
Jeep JK Wrangler Grade 8 Replacement Bolts - Do I Really Need Them?

Just baffles me why this is the only forum that advises against the bolt upgrade.
So on his JK with coil overs and 37's he's running the stock bolts? I doubt it. At the very least, the bolt upgrade will do zero harm. If all the bolt is supposed to do is provide compression to hold the crush sleeve so it doesn't spin or move, it shouldn't matter the size and type of the bolt as long as it can hold the proper torque.

But the crush sleeves do move and spin. Whether it's just the bolt needs retorquing or we managed to do something the engineers never anticipated or replicated in their computer model, it happens. It's always been stated on here that the bolt upgrade is optional, especially for stock Wranglers. But the more mods, the more it matters. I replaced mine at 1800 miles and already had scoring.

A bit disingenuous for a guy whose suspension is 100% aftermarket to tell the rest of us we don't need to upgrade the bolts.
__________________
Dan - 2014 White Rubicon Unlimited - My Build Thread
Teraflex 2.5 lift - Rancho 9000XLs - Rancho CA Brackets - 285/70/17 Durtracs - Black Rock 909 Wheels -
JCR Offroad Mauler Front Bumper - A.C.E. Rock Sliders - A.C.E. Pros Series Rear Bumper & Carrier - Warn XD9000i - Pioneer DVD Receiver - Cobra 75WXST CB Radio
flyfishnevada is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 12:28 PM   #25
Moderator

WF Lifetime Member
WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
jadmt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: missoula
Posts: 21,524
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfishnevada View Post
So on his JK with coil overs and 37's he's running the stock bolts? I doubt it. At the very least, the bolt upgrade will do zero harm. If all the bolt is supposed to do is provide compression to hold the crush sleeve so it doesn't spin or move, it shouldn't matter the size and type of the bolt as long as it can hold the proper torque.

But the crush sleeves do move and spin. Whether it's just the bolt needs retorquing or we managed to do something the engineers never anticipated or replicated in their computer model, it happens. It's always been stated on here that the bolt upgrade is optional, especially for stock Wranglers. But the more mods, the more it matters. I replaced mine at 1800 miles and already had scoring.

A bit disingenuous for a guy whose suspension is 100% aftermarket to tell the rest of us we don't need to upgrade the bolts.
he also claims no need to replace the stock track bar as stock is best.
jadmt is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 12:33 PM   #26
WF Moderator

WF Lifetime Member
WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
kjeeper10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 53,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfishnevada View Post
So on his JK with coil overs and 37's he's running the stock bolts? I doubt it. At the very least, the bolt upgrade will do zero harm. If all the bolt is supposed to do is provide compression to hold the crush sleeve so it doesn't spin or move, it shouldn't matter the size and type of the bolt as long as it can hold the proper torque. But the crush sleeves do move and spin. Whether it's just the bolt needs retorquing or we managed to do something the engineers never anticipated or replicated in their computer model, it happens. It's always been stated on here that the bolt upgrade is optional, especially for stock Wranglers. But the more mods, the more it matters. I replaced mine at 1800 miles and already had scoring. A bit disingenuous for a guy whose suspension is 100% aftermarket to tell the rest of us we don't need to upgrade the bolts.
I agree. He's running 40's btw
kjeeper10 is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 12:35 PM   #27
WF Moderator

WF Lifetime Member
WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
kjeeper10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 53,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadmt View Post
he also claims no need to replace the stock track bar as stock is best.
Add to that the drag link, knuckles (no Reids) and anything TF
kjeeper10 is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 12:52 PM   #28
Jeeper
 
flyfishnevada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Smith, Nevada
Posts: 2,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
I agree. He's running 40's btw
And totally running stock bolts. How about stock nothing!

He's got a lot of groupies over there on that forum. What he says rarely get's challenged. I do like his videos. They're fun to watch.
__________________
Dan - 2014 White Rubicon Unlimited - My Build Thread
Teraflex 2.5 lift - Rancho 9000XLs - Rancho CA Brackets - 285/70/17 Durtracs - Black Rock 909 Wheels -
JCR Offroad Mauler Front Bumper - A.C.E. Rock Sliders - A.C.E. Pros Series Rear Bumper & Carrier - Warn XD9000i - Pioneer DVD Receiver - Cobra 75WXST CB Radio
flyfishnevada is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 01:34 PM   #29
Moderator

WF Lifetime Member
WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
jadmt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: missoula
Posts: 21,524
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfishnevada View Post
And totally running stock bolts. How about stock nothing!

He's got a lot of groupies over there on that forum. What he says rarely get's challenged. I do like his videos. They're fun to watch.
lest you get banned lol. He can have his groupies. I have not watched his videos because he probably makes money each time they get watched.
jadmt is offline   Quote
Old 10-15-2014, 02:04 PM
Thread Starter
  #30
Jeeper
 
willwork4sushi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfishnevada View Post
And totally running stock bolts. How about stock nothing!

He's got a lot of groupies over there on that forum. What he says rarely get's challenged. I do like his videos. They're fun to watch.
I agree. Seems a little "big brother-ish" to me. I read his thread that was linked above and every reply was essentially a "bow down" to his claims and theory.

__________________
2014 JKU||Granite Crystal||Willys Wheeler Edition
willwork4sushi is offline   Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off






All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, Gladiator, Mopar and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to FCA US LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with FCA US LLC.