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Old 06-03-2016, 02:45 AM
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Heeeeeelp! Another Alignment Review

Hi Folks,

I have a 15 JKUR with a 3" TF long arm kit on 37 Nitto MT's. Been dealing with a hard left pull issue for the past year since install. Reviewed every thread on this forum related to alignment and have learned quite a bit since!

I am absolutely convinced that alignment shops who know how to get lifted Jeeps straight are few and far between, and non-existent in SoCal. Throw install shops in that bucket as well.

I had an alignment done at a local shop with a late model rack this past week. I worked with the tech and reviewed all of the numbers. He had no idea what he was looking at as no other vehicle config has the level of adjustment. Nice guys, eager to learn, but I'm in the position to tell them the proper adjustments. Photos below.

It looks to me that:

1. passenger upper and lowers need to be pulled back about a few turns. I measured from the axle to a body mount and it's about 1/4" off from the driver.
2. rear passenger need to be taken in about a turn
3. front track bar needs to be adjusted. I measured from the frame to various areas on the tires and it appears it's 1/2" difference, and the body needs to shift to the passenger. The report looks different however?

If you see the toe numbers on the front and back, they are not even side to side. Does this coorelate to the axles not being square?

Greatly appreciate any help and your expertise. The left pull has been driving me absolutely bonkers, and I need to tell these guys what to adjust.

Thanks in advance!








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Old 06-03-2016, 06:41 AM   #2
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Sounds like you need to call around and look for a shop that knows how to set up suspension arms. A majority of them don't and have problems installing short arms, never mind long arms.

Edit looks like Rebel did the install? I know its been a year but have you contacted them? Are you close to Off road Evolution?

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Old 06-03-2016, 07:01 AM   #3
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If he can go to Rebel, he can go to Evo. I grew up in Fullerton, CA for 15 years of my life. They should be able to set you up correctly.

Basically your Caster is too high, make those arms shorter in LCA in the front and adjust passenger Toe. Adjust shorter the LCA on the right little moreso, it is pushing the axle to the left it seems. With that and a combination of TB adjustment.
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Old 06-04-2016, 12:44 AM
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Thanks guys. Sined, grew up in Fullerton myself! Adjust passenger toe? Not possible, only one adjustment for that as you know, and I learned today that the report of cross toe is an artifact of the front axle set back being off. .

Spoke with TF today, they advised to pull the right U/L's CL's and bring them in 1/4", and pull the caster back 1* (2 turns-ish), pull the front track bar to passenger 1/8", and pull the passenger rear U/L CL's in a turn. Nice guys, great support.

Drove it today on surface streets. Pulled the doors and roof off as it's summer. Couldn't tell a difference. Need to take it on the highway with the weight back on.

Additional thoughts are appreciated on my findings. Thank you!
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Old 06-04-2016, 09:53 AM   #5
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First thing I would do would be to shorten the right lower control arm, to around 5.6 degrees. This will reduce the excessive caster, as well as move the tire back a little bit. After that, you may need to shorten the top to get the front setback where it should be, but if you adjust the top you'll have to adjust the bottom again to get back to 5.6 degrees. This would also probably change how much it pulls to the left.

If you have adjustable track bars, you can adjust them to change the lateral offset.

These two changes should get you really close to where you want to be. Good luck!
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Old 06-04-2016, 10:59 AM   #6
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More caster than needed.... I would be pulling in the driver lower a full turn and the passenger lower about 3-4 turns and the passenger upper 1-2 turns.

It is normal to have cross caster, but you should try to have none or even less on passenger if you have a left pull. Thrust angle could also be rear axle center... Have you measured to see if you are off in the rear?

As for toe, your steering wheel is off center too? Get the axle and steering wheel centered and see what it reads.
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Old 06-04-2016, 02:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Theres no individual toe. If one side reads more/less the steering wheel is not center.
Got it! You guys should set up an alignment shop for Jeeps!
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Old 06-04-2016, 02:42 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by wiredinoc View Post
Thanks guys. Sined, grew up in Fullerton myself! Adjust passenger toe? Not possible, only one adjustment for that as you know, and I learned today that the report of cross toe is an artifact of the front axle set back being off. .

Spoke with TF today, they advised to pull the right U/L's CL's and bring them in 1/4", and pull the caster back 1* (2 turns-ish), pull the front track bar to passenger 1/8", and pull the passenger rear U/L CL's in a turn. Nice guys, great support.

Drove it today on surface streets. Pulled the doors and roof off as it's summer. Couldn't tell a difference. Need to take it on the highway with the weight back on.

Additional thoughts are appreciated on my findings. Thank you!
Nice! Sunny Hills HS Class of 1998.

You?
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:15 PM
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Fullerton '90! Well kinda, that's what is says on my Good Enuf Diploma ;-)

Sorry for the late response, just has a chance to make some adjustments. I took the passenger front LC OUT 4 turns, and took the passenger rear LC out 1 turn. I need to get back down to the alignment shop, probably early next week to see how it looks now. It's still pulling to the left, but very less pronounced which means I'm heading in the right direction. In the process, pulled out some of the caster, I'm not sure how much. I will post the results.

One additional question - when adjusting the lowers, I'm simply adjusting the uppers so the bolt fits without force as to prevent binding. I'm doing this on the ground. This is the correct method of adjustment yes? Or do I want the adjustment to require a strap to replace the bolt? All the reading I've done states that the bolts should be able to remove without force.

Thanks!
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Old 06-16-2016, 02:32 PM   #11
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wiredinoc, are you running a pressurized steering stabilizer by any chance?
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Old 06-16-2016, 02:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiredinoc View Post
Fullerton '90! Well kinda, that's what is says on my Good Enuf Diploma ;-) Sorry for the late response, just has a chance to make some adjustments. I took the passenger front LC OUT 4 turns, and took the passenger rear LC out 1 turn. I need to get back down to the alignment shop, probably early next week to see how it looks now. It's still pulling to the left, but very less pronounced which means I'm heading in the right direction. In the process, pulled out some of the caster, I'm not sure how much. I will post the results. One additional question - when adjusting the lowers, I'm simply adjusting the uppers so the bolt fits without force as to prevent binding. I'm doing this on the ground. This is the correct method of adjustment yes? Or do I want the adjustment to require a strap to replace the bolt? All the reading I've done states that the bolts should be able to remove without force. Thanks!
YESSIR

set the lowers to match. Then on the ground support pinion where you want it and install uppers so all 4 bolts slide through. Keep the lowers loose too. Tighten everything after all 4 arms are in.
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Old 06-16-2016, 03:13 PM   #13
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After a recent tire rotation my Jeep is pulling left. The spare tire has a lot more tread than the other tires and now that it's on the front right it really pushes the Jeep left. Your problem is most likely alignment but check the tire tread also.
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Old 06-16-2016, 06:10 PM
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Thanks for all the info! I'm running an Ats, not the ss. It's also pulled left after multiple rotations. Think squaring it up is the fix as I'm seeing improvement.

Another one on arm adjustment. In the ground can I remove both the upper and lower on one side or will the axle shift, drop or some other catastrophe?
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Old 06-16-2016, 06:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiredinoc View Post
Thanks for all the info! I'm running an Ats, not the ss. It's also pulled left after multiple rotations. Think squaring it up is the fix as I'm seeing improvement. Another one on arm adjustment. In the ground can I remove both the upper and lower on one side or will the axle shift, drop or some other catastrophe?
You have to do lowers then the uppers.
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Old 06-16-2016, 06:40 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Toby Vanderbeek View Post
After a recent tire rotation my Jeep is pulling left. The spare tire has a lot more tread than the other tires and now that it's on the front right it really pushes the Jeep left. Your problem is most likely alignment but check the tire tread also.
Lower the air pressure in the RF tire about 1 PSI. If it stll pulls slightly, repeat once more. The air pressure change will reduce the rolling radius slightly to bring it into line with the worn tire on the left.

NASCAR does the opposite to help the cars turn left on the race track.
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Old 06-16-2016, 07:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiredinoc View Post
Thanks for all the info! I'm running an Ats, not the ss. It's also pulled left after multiple rotations. Think squaring it up is the fix as I'm seeing improvement.

Another one on arm adjustment. In the ground can I remove both the upper and lower on one side or will the axle shift, drop or some other catastrophe?
Again, are you running a pressurized steering stabilizer? You seem to think that this is all about alignment, but it might be simpler. [I went through the same thing, and the culprit was the Bilstein (pressurized) stabilizer]
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Old 06-16-2016, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by rgreen65 View Post
Lower the air pressure in the RF tire about 1 PSI. If it stll pulls slightly, repeat once more. The air pressure change will reduce the rolling radius slightly to bring it into line with the worn tire on the left.

NASCAR does the opposite to help the cars turn left on the race track.
Excellent! I will give that a try. I'm still about 1/8" shorter on the wheelbase on the drivers. Will do some turning tonight.


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Again, are you running a pressurized steering stabilizer? You seem to think that this is all about alignment, but it might be simpler. [I went through the same thing, and the culprit was the Bilstein (pressurized) stabilizer]
Hi Rick, sorry I live in acronym-ville at work. I'm running a Fox ATS steering stabilizer. It doesn't push in any direction.

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Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
You have to do lowers then the uppers.
Still have a question on this, sorry if I didn't explain properly. I'm concerned about disconnecting more than one arm at a time out of fear that the axle will flip one way or another unexpectedly.

The process I have used until now to adjust the lowers is:

1. disconnect a lower, adjust, use ratchet strap or can jack to align the hole
2. remove the upper that is now under pressure (PITA)
3. adjust upper until the bolt fits in, loose tighten
4. move to the other side, adjust lower
5. adjust that side's upper for caster
6. remove opposing upper to release tension on joint.

Can I remove both lowers at the same time without the front end eating itself?

Sorry for all the newbie questions, but I've found the only way to get this type of fine tuning done is to learn, and do it yourself. It amazes me how much bad information floating around on this topic.

Thank you!!!
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Old 06-17-2016, 11:02 AM   #19
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Hi Rick, sorry I live in acronym-ville at work. I'm running a Fox ATS steering stabilizer. It doesn't push in any direction.
You are the 2nd person on this forum (this week) running a Fox ATS-equipped Jeep that pulls left. You may want to take ten minutes to remove it and test drive. The "it doesn't push in any direction" is based on Fox's claim - I'd test it.
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Old 06-17-2016, 11:36 AM   #20
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You are the 2nd person on this forum (this week) running a Fox ATS-equipped Jeep that pulls left. You may want to take ten minutes to remove it and test drive. The "it doesn't push in any direction" is based on Fox's claim - I'd test it.
I ran the ATS for a good year w/ no pulls.
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Old 06-17-2016, 01:53 PM
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I've had it off. It's definitely not the reason for pulling.

The more I dig into this, I'm convinced all of the "help my jeep pulls X" has everything to do with slam bam thank you 'maam installs. Shops install the kit, send it to an alignment shop who has no idea how to deal with 12 adjustment points and solid axels (and -may- pull the lowers to adjust caster), set toe improperly, make the machine turn green, call it a day, deliver to customer. Customer drives jeep, it drives like crap and pulls, after research throws their arms up and writes it off as a jeep thing. That's pretty much where I was prior to this journey, and all of your great help!

I'm off to palm springs for father's day, will get this in the shop next week to see if things are square and report back results.

Have a great FDW!

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