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Old 09-06-2017, 12:39 PM
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Improving Cabin Sound

I'm looking to improve the audio in my Jeep. I've upgraded the speakers and added a sub-woofer, which has helped a ton. One problem that seems to still be there is the sound stage (guessing that's the proper term) feels off. By off, it sounds like the music is distant (tad tin can echo), or just not bouncing around in the cabin right - just doesn't sound pleasant.

I'm going try the fiberfill in the soundbar trick, but I'm assuming the hardtop is causing issues too. I was looking at either HotHead top liner or Lizardskin...or maybe both together. Wondering if anyone had any luck with either or with getting their audio to sound better? Seen lots of praise for thermal improvement, not much comment on sound.


(Last guess would be replacing stock 430N headunit, but not sure how much an effect that gives)

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Old 09-06-2017, 12:51 PM   #2
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I have a DIY headliner that works well and I have dynamat on the floor, it help out alot .

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Old 09-06-2017, 12:58 PM   #3
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The inside dimensions and speaker locations of Wranglers don't lend themselves to high fidelity audio. As tapcola illustrated (holy cow man I bow to your initiative!) insulation, absorption/diffusion can help, but I think loud is really all you can hope for inside a Jeep. Being an audiophile (home audio only), IMHO, trying to get high fidelity sound inside a Jeep is like polishing a turd. In the end, you have a shiny turd. No offense to those who have spent countless hours trying, and loud is certainly good if it's clean, but fidelity-wise there are just too many obstacles to overcome in the cockpit of a Jeep.
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Old 09-06-2017, 01:07 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by RhinoSportJKU View Post
The inside dimensions and speaker locations of Wranglers don't lend themselves to high fidelity audio. As tapcola illustrated (holy cow man I bow to your initiative!) insulation, absorption/diffusion can help, but I think loud is really all you can hope for inside a Jeep. Being an audiophile (home audio only), IMHO, trying to get high fidelity sound inside a Jeep is like polishing a turd. In the end, you have a shiny turd. No offense to those who have spent countless hours trying, and loud is certainly good if it's clean, but fidelity-wise there are just too many obstacles to overcome in the cockpit of a Jeep.
Agreed 😁 it is a shiny turd for all I have done it is quieter I also did it for the heat factor . Living in Vegas It helps keep the internal temps down .


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Old 09-06-2017, 02:06 PM   #5
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You can actually get very good sound out of a Jeep........When it's setting still. My installation is very much like tapcola but I used SoundSkins which I feel is a superior product. I've spent about 40 hours making my sound bar totally vibration free. I do think it is easier with the old tombstone setup to setup a proper sound stage. The only real issue is getting a proper sub in the Jeep, this is very hard in a 2 door. Hopefully in the next few months I will mounting a new to market 12 inch shallow sub that will address that problem.

Of course just like anything my system is not close to being done. A DSP is in the offing to further refine the sound. Eventually I will go active on all my speakers as well as ditch the head unit for a tablet system. Money, money, money, Just Empty Every Pocket.
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Old 09-06-2017, 02:24 PM   #6
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JL C2s in the front and soundbar
JL HD900/5 amp
Audio Control Lc8i
JL stealth box.
I have also dynamat in the pods and soundbar along with polyfill.

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Old 09-06-2017, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by tapcola View Post
I have a DIY headliner that works well and I have dynamat on the floor, it help out alot .


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What material did you use for the headliner? Just 3M tape it on the top?

Did the floor liner help with sound and acoustics produced in the cabin or just stop noise from coming in? Stuff looks neat, I'll have to look more into that...not sure if I got the patience to be as neat and thorough as your job

Quote:
Originally Posted by RhinoSportJKU View Post
The inside dimensions and speaker locations of Wranglers don't lend themselves to high fidelity audio. As tapcola illustrated (holy cow man I bow to your initiative!) insulation, absorption/diffusion can help, but I think loud is really all you can hope for inside a Jeep. Being an audiophile (home audio only), IMHO, trying to get high fidelity sound inside a Jeep is like polishing a turd. In the end, you have a shiny turd. No offense to those who have spent countless hours trying, and loud is certainly good if it's clean, but fidelity-wise there are just too many obstacles to overcome in the cockpit of a Jeep.
I'm the same way at home with headphone setup, but definitely don't expect to get that in the Jeep. Dream would be to mimic the upgraded Alphine sound that the newer Challengers have. Goal is to at least get it to a point where I can stand listening to it haha.

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Originally Posted by TerryC6 View Post
You can actually get very good sound out of a Jeep........When it's setting still. My installation is very much like tapcola but I used SoundSkins which I feel is a superior product. I've spent about 40 hours making my sound bar totally vibration free. I do think it is easier with the old tombstone setup to setup a proper sound stage. The only real issue is getting a proper sub in the Jeep, this is very hard in a 2 door. Hopefully in the next few months I will mounting a new to market 12 inch shallow sub that will address that problem.

Of course just like anything my system is not close to being done. A DSP is in the offing to further refine the sound. Eventually I will go active on all my speakers as well as ditch the head unit for a tablet system. Money, money, money, Just Empty Every Pocket.
So many potential solutions, but ya that money thing always gets in the way. Trying to aim for the biggest bang for buck fixes for now.
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Old 09-06-2017, 03:51 PM   #8
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What material did you use for the headliner? Just 3M tape it on the top?

Did the floor liner help with sound and acoustics produced in the cabin or just stop noise from coming in? Stuff looks neat, I'll have to look more into that...not sure if I got the patience to be as neat and thorough as your job



I'm the same way at home with headphone setup, but definitely don't expect to get that in the Jeep. Dream would be to mimic the upgraded Alphine sound that the newer Challengers have. Goal is to at least get it to a point where I can stand listening to it haha.



So many potential solutions, but ya that money thing always gets in the way. Trying to aim for the biggest bang for buck fixes for now.
I use 1/2in insulation from lows with some headliner material. You have to get some high temperature velcro for it to stick on the roof .I found some on Amozon.

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Old 09-06-2017, 03:52 PM   #9
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I use 1/2in insulation from lows with some headliner material. You have to get some high temperature velcro for it to stick on the roof .I found some on Amozon.

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The Dynamat helps with noise also .

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Old 09-06-2017, 05:59 PM
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Tried out the fiberfill suggestion from older posts. Didn't notice a huge difference most claimed, maybe some minor volume increase.

However, after keeping my ears up to the speakers trying to notice a difference, it seems the problem may be coming from the speakers before it ever has a chance to bounce around in the Jeep. Went with other recommendations with Rockford speakers, still feels "artificial", not sure how to get it to be more warm sounding. Maybe the stock headunit is the root?
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Old 09-06-2017, 06:06 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Mech View Post
Tried out the fiberfill suggestion from older posts. Didn't notice a huge difference most claimed, maybe some minor volume increase.

However, after keeping my ears up to the speakers trying to notice a difference, it seems the problem may be coming from the speakers before it ever has a chance to bounce around in the Jeep. Went with other recommendations with Rockford speakers, still feels "artificial", not sure how to get it to be more warm sounding. Maybe the stock headunit is the root?
By all means the stock HU blows, I have the 430n and I hate it , it has a base rolloff feature so the higher you turn it up the less you have . It is manageable with the Lc8i.


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Old 09-10-2017, 12:14 PM   #12
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It's the stock head unit, mostly ....

I had the 730n head unit and I tried *everything* to make things sound better without removing it. (I mean, I had 5 years of free Sirius/XM traffic and weather as part of keeping that head unit, as well as the fact I paid so much for it in the price of the Jeep and wanted to get my money's worth out of it.)

I even spent $500 or so on a sound processor/EQ to run between the 730n and a 5 channel JL Audio power amp, as well as changing out all of the factory speakers.

It STILL always had that "thin" sound to it, like the speakers were playing out of tin cans. The amp just made it louder. The sound processor/EQ? That just wound up being endless fiddling around with its settings because just when you thought you had a real improvement dialed in, you'd play a different song that really made it sound bad.

Ripping it out and spending the $$$'s on an Alpine head-unit replacement made a HUGE difference. Initially, maybe not so much -- but the real KEY was the Alpine's ability to make useful adjustments to the sound. Mine had sound "presets" for certain genres of music like "rock" or "dance", and a couple of those made night and day differences in the fullness of what I heard. But on top of that, there were advanced settings when I really spent more time digging into the menus. One let me roll off the low frequencies with a low-pass filter, at any point I wished. By playing with that, I was able to get my bass subwoofer to hit really hard/loud while cutting just the frequencies that made the back plastic trim rattle.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mech View Post
Tried out the fiberfill suggestion from older posts. Didn't notice a huge difference most claimed, maybe some minor volume increase.

However, after keeping my ears up to the speakers trying to notice a difference, it seems the problem may be coming from the speakers before it ever has a chance to bounce around in the Jeep. Went with other recommendations with Rockford speakers, still feels "artificial", not sure how to get it to be more warm sounding. Maybe the stock headunit is the root?
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Old 09-10-2017, 03:30 PM   #13
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I also "sound proofed" the entire tub, front and back with 2 layers of deadener and 1 layer of sound mat. Added the HotHead roof liner. Still have base 430, but none have created a "good" sound stage. Tried an andriod HU but no bass at all from that, and it killed my battery (replaced by dealership, warranty) after being away for 5 days.

Still looking for that sound. But I am almost excepting of the 430 sound, actually a little bassy as I had to turn down to -2. As long as it is loud me like.

430 HU
Massive Audio MK6 component
Massive Audio LX6 coax (soundbar)
Alpine PDX-5 (4 gauge)
Massive Audio Summo 84 sub
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Old 09-10-2017, 08:03 PM   #14
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The new alpine upgrade surprised me in my jku. I'm not saying its amazing, but in my soft top I just don't think you'll get much better. I listen to nothing but house/techno so everything is super compressed and mixed hard but it sounds good in the jeep.


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Old 09-13-2017, 09:50 AM
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I ended up going to a stereo shop that some friends recommended for additional work on top of the subwoofer I had. Their work turned out great, got the audio way better than I was even hoping (better than the Challenger even). Now happy to turn the music up, rather than off.

Kept the 430N headunit, but they put in a processor, better speakers, an amp, and some boom mat around the speakers. Even with the quick tune they did, very happy, taking it back Friday for a couple hours for them to finish tuning and adjustment.

General list of components for those searching for help in the future (will have to get model #s latter):
-Audison Signal Interface Processor
-Hertz HCP 4-channel amplifier
-Hertz Energy 6.5" Component Speakers
-Hertz Energy 6.5" Coaxial Speakers


Going try sound proofing the cabin as you guys have shown a little further down the road, looks like fun. Thanks for the help.
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Old 09-13-2017, 04:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mech View Post
I ended up going to a stereo shop that some friends recommended for additional work on top of the subwoofer I had. Their work turned out great, got the audio way better than I was even hoping (better than the Challenger even). Now happy to turn the music up, rather than off.

Kept the 430N headunit, but they put in a processor, better speakers, an amp, and some boom mat around the speakers. Even with the quick tune they did, very happy, taking it back Friday for a couple hours for them to finish tuning and adjustment.

General list of components for those searching for help in the future (will have to get model #s latter):
-Audison Signal Interface Processor
-Hertz HCP 4-channel amplifier
-Hertz Energy 6.5" Component Speakers
-Hertz Energy 6.5" Coaxial Speakers


Going try sound proofing the cabin as you guys have shown a little further down the road, looks like fun. Thanks for the help.
I know the Harley Davidson community likes and uses the Hertz speakers, but I never really heard of anyone using them in an automotive application.
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:07 PM   #17
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I had a set of hertz components on another vehicle. They absolutely kick ass.
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Old 09-14-2017, 08:51 AM
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I know the Harley Davidson community likes and uses the Hertz speakers, but I never really heard of anyone using them in an automotive application.
From what I was told, they don't do as much advertising as say Rockford, and get overlooked a bit. Couldn't be happier with them though.


Another note from the installer on speakers was to try to avoid ones with "metal domes", and go with ones with "silk domes". Mentioned that for the most part, the metal dome will give you that resonance, or plastic echo sound a lot of us seem to complain about - said that applied for at least the entry level, or lower cost speakers. Elaborated that there are definitely good sounding metal dome ones, but on the lower price range, its a lot easier to get silk ones sounding nice.
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:29 AM   #19
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From what I was told, they don't do as much advertising as say Rockford, and get overlooked a bit. Couldn't be happier with them though.


Another note from the installer on speakers was to try to avoid ones with "metal domes", and go with ones with "silk domes". Mentioned that for the most part, the metal dome will give you that resonance, or plastic echo sound a lot of us seem to complain about - said that applied for at least the entry level, or lower cost speakers. Elaborated that there are definitely good sounding metal dome ones, but on the lower price range, its a lot easier to get silk ones sounding nice.
Audison and Hertz owned by the same company are really popular over in Europe. Audison has a very large following in the high end car audio market but Hertz has very good speakers and I love there amps. Mine is much more powerful than the stated specs.
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Old 01-17-2019, 12:34 PM   #20
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Has anyone tried ducting (drilling a hole) in the speaker enclosures? I have the 130 HU and upgraded the speakers to a Alpine system designed for JK. I noticed a big improvement but am still getting the woom-boom reverb in the lower frequencies.
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Old 01-17-2019, 01:11 PM   #21
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I had a set of hertz components on another vehicle. They absolutely kick ass.
Second this. Added Hertz to my JKU, sounds fantastic. I noticed intricacies to songs I have been listening to for years that I had never heard before, and sounds that I have heard, they are so much cleaner and prevalent.


As an example, I love a band called Sabbat, and they have a song called "advent of insanity", where it has the sound of a boat in the ocean in the background, and the boat is creaking in the soundtrack. I had always noticed the sound of the boat, but with these Hertz component speakers, it felt like I was actually sitting in the boat. The difference was remarkable.
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Old 01-17-2019, 03:13 PM   #22
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Did this last weekend and it rocks. Less than $10 and 30 minutes.

https://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/s...ap-662985.html
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Old 01-18-2019, 09:13 PM   #23
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Has anyone tried ducting (drilling a hole) in the speaker enclosures? I have the 130 HU and upgraded the speakers to a Alpine system designed for JK. I noticed a big improvement but am still getting the woom-boom reverb in the lower frequencies.
Yes, you can drill into enclosure if you want. I covered mine in fiberglass and mounted my Focal speakers onto MDF rings. Wired it up by drilling and sealing to have them air tight. Just throwing some better speakers into flexy plastic stock boxes will not give the best results.
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Old 01-19-2019, 10:39 AM   #24
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headphones will sound the best. I know, not legal or safe.

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