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Old 06-15-2019, 03:02 AM
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Jk Dana 30 Ring & Pinion install kit

Hello all. In the middle of doing gears, sleeves ,gussets, truss etc on my 2015 jk. Did front Dana 30 first. Noticed in the master install kit there were no pinion shims. Contacted company and they said it should be there. Sent them a pic of sealed kit, they checked other kits an verified none. They contacted supplier and told me supplier said "you can use the carrier shims behind the race and you should be good".





Opinions anyone?


So I just reused original shim that came out (what i usually do anyway). What you think of this contact pattern?
R&P by Ray zor, on Flickr

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Old 06-15-2019, 07:08 AM   #2
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I'm not a gear expert but from what I've seen that pattern looks fine. Make sure you use a diff case spreader so you don't destroy the carrier shims - carrier preload is also important.

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Old 06-15-2019, 07:51 PM
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I'm not a gear expert but from what I've seen that pattern looks fine. Make sure you use a diff case spreader so you don't destroy the carrier shims - carrier preload is also important.
Thank you! I used fsm for pinion rotating torque then added shims to carrier to get total rotating torque within specs.

Iíve never seen a master install kit without pinion shims. The rear d44 kit has it. Just was wondering if itís the norm now.
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Old 06-15-2019, 07:54 PM   #4
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Did it have a crush sleeve?
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Old 06-16-2019, 03:12 AM
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Did it have a crush sleeve?
Yes the kit came with a crush sleeve but I didnít use it. I usually use the solid spacer with shims.
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Old 06-16-2019, 08:28 AM   #6
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Yes the kit came with a crush sleeve but I didnít use it. I usually use the solid spacer with shims.
That's why the kit didn't come with pinion shims. The crush sleeve is used to set preload and it doesn't have or use shims so they don't put any in the kit.

If you get a solid spacer to replace the crush sleeve, it should come with a way to adjust preload like shims or something else.
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Old 06-16-2019, 08:29 AM   #7
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Well thatís a crock!!! You would have to know absolutely what your pinion shim requirements are to put shims behind the bearing race. Once shims are pressed In Behind the race you will destroy them if they are not correct and have to come back off. Thatís why we use a set up bearing on the pinion to get the correct pinion shims in the proper place before pressing the final bearing on.
However, most times using the factory shim behind the new pinion will put you in a good place.


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Old 06-16-2019, 09:44 AM
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That's why the kit didn't come with pinion shims. The crush sleeve is used to set preload and it doesn't have or use shims so they don't put any in the kit.

If you get a solid spacer to replace the crush sleeve, it should come with a way to adjust preload like shims or something else.
The crush sleeve is used to get proper pinion bearing preload measured in inch pounds or rotating torque. The pinion shim is used for adjusting pinion depth.
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Old 06-16-2019, 09:46 AM   #9
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First off you are right to question the lack of pinion shims. They should be There. Though you can shim the race it wasnít the answer the manufacturer should have given you.

More times than not measuring the stock pinion shim and using that as a starting point gets you within .005 of where you need to be and it looks like it this time too. If I was to be picky you look a like you could use .005 under the pinion. The pattern looks like it is flat at the flank but it is tough to tell. If you thin out the pattern paint with a drop of gear oil it will show the contact pattern a little better. You are looking for more of a football pattern on the tooth. Or... it could be fine. Tough to tell with the pic.

The person who says you donít use pinion shims with a crush sleeve is confusing the pinion shims for a pack of crush sleeve eliminators I think. You definitely need pinion shims!

My method for setting pinion preload is to spread the case .010 / .012 and get every bit of shim I can get in. I always end up in spec.

This is a pattern from a set of axles I did last week. You can see the football pattern.
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Old 06-16-2019, 09:46 AM
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Well thatís a crock!!! You would have to know absolutely what your pinion shim requirements are to put shims behind the bearing race. Once shims are pressed In Behind the race you will destroy them if they are not correct and have to come back off. Thatís why we use a set up bearing on the pinion to get the correct pinion shims in the proper place before pressing the final bearing on.
However, most times using the factory shim behind the new pinion will put you in a good place.


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Exactly! I would destroy the oil baffle that goes behind that outer race. Fortunately the original .045Ē shim produced that pattern.
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Old 06-16-2019, 10:15 AM   #11
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The crush sleeve is used to get proper pinion bearing preload measured in inch pounds or rotating torque. The pinion shim is used for adjusting pinion depth.
Yep. Forgot about that.
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:13 AM
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First off you are right to question the lack of pinion shims. They should be There. Though you can shim the race it wasnít the answer the manufacturer should have given you.

More times than not measuring the stock pinion shim and using that as a starting point gets you within .005 of where you need to be and it looks like it this time too. If I was to be picky you look a like you could use .005 under the pinion. The pattern looks like it is flat at the flank but it is tough to tell. If you thin out the pattern paint with a drop of gear oil it will show the contact pattern a little better. You are looking for more of a football pattern on the tooth. Or... it could be fine. Tough to tell with the pic.

The person who says you donít use pinion shims with a crush sleeve is confusing the pinion shims for a pack of crush sleeve eliminators I think. You definitely need pinion shims!

My method for setting pinion preload is to spread the case .010 / .012 and get every bit of shim I can get in. I always end up in spec.

This is a pattern from a set of axles I did last week. You can see the football pattern.
Thank you. I found another issue. This is for rear dana 44 install kit. The ring gear bolts only go in about 3.5 turns. Way too short in my opinion. The ring gear is threaded much deeper and would accommodate much longer bolt.

I think I gotta purchase longer bolts, maybe even use the larger 1/2 x 20 holes.
Revolution gears came recommended too and I paid extra for their timken kit.

Untitled by Ray zor, on Flickr

Untitled by Ray zor, on Flickr

Untitled by Ray zor, on Flickr
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:25 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Rayzor25 View Post
Thank you. I found another issue. This is for rear dana 44 install kit. The ring gear bolts only go in about 3.5 turns. Way too short in my opinion. The ring gear is threaded much deeper and would accommodate much longer bolt.

I think I gotta purchase longer bolts, maybe even use the larger 1/2 x 20 holes.
Revolution gears came recommended too and I paid extra for their timken kit.

Untitled by Ray zor, on Flickr

Untitled by Ray zor, on Flickr

Untitled by Ray zor, on Flickr



In my opinion you are correct. in the engineering world you want the 1.5 times the bolt diameter in thread engagement. In other words if it is 1/4" bolt you want at minimum 3/8" of thread engagement. That is a rule of thumb and like a thumb it can be bent but what you have there is ripping the thumb off and tying it to a balloon Lorena Bobbit style to never be seen again!

I would spec longer bolts. Be aware of the bolt grade. Those ring gear bolts aren't something Ace Hardware is going to have in the bins.
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Old 06-18-2019, 04:35 PM
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In my opinion you are correct. in the engineering world you want the 1.5 times the bolt diameter in thread engagement. In other words if it is 1/4" bolt you want at minimum 3/8" of thread engagement. That is a rule of thumb and like a thumb it can be bent but what you have there is ripping the thumb off and tying it to a balloon Lorena Bobbit style to never be seen again!

I would spec longer bolts. Be aware of the bolt grade. Those ring gear bolts aren't something Ace Hardware is going to have in the bins.
I just got reply back from revolution. They said ďthose are industry standard lengths and should work for open carriers and lockersĒ. 😳

But yeah I can get some bowman bowmalloy bolts. Iím thinking of using the larger 1/2x20 holes instead of smaller ones as both carrier and ring gear drilled for both. Just hope bolt doesnít need a special shoulder or other specific feature.
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Old 06-18-2019, 04:58 PM   #15
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I just got reply back from revolution. They said ďthose are industry standard lengths and should work for open carriers and lockersĒ. 😳

But yeah I can get some bowman bowmalloy bolts. Iím thinking of using the larger 1/2x20 holes instead of smaller ones as both carrier and ring gear drilled for both. Just hope bolt doesnít need a special shoulder or other specific feature.
Well I agree that those bolts are probably an industry standard but to say that they will work on all carriers and lockers would probably be untrue.
Sounds like youíre on the right track. The only thing Iíd make sure I did it was just you some Loctite on them when you torque them up.
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Old 06-23-2019, 11:39 PM
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Got everything installed. Have about 100 miles on it. Temps with infrared thermal gun max out at 170f. However the rear axle has a thump noise at low speeds. Coasting from 25mph down to a compete stop. One thump per wheel revolution. While accelerating under load there is no noise. Decel in gear slight noise. In neutral is the loudest while rolling to a stop. No noise on jack stands.

I connected my mechanics chassis ear and loudest is from wheel bearing area. Just a thump thump thump proportional to road speed.

Any ideas? Was gonna wait till 500 mile axle oil change but probably won’t now.

Appreciate any input!
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Old 06-24-2019, 12:46 PM   #17
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id pull the cover and look at it just to alleviate any stress. No idea otherwise.

FWIW, I don't think there should be any gear noise. I would double check your backlash at a minimum. Might clean it all back up and run another pattern as well
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Old 06-24-2019, 01:04 PM   #18
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Should be no noise whether accelerating or decelerating. If you hear noise at the rear bearing pull it apart, something going on in there.


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Old 06-24-2019, 01:36 PM
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Alright thanks all. Yes it’s weird. Noise is loudest when coasting (neutral or step clutch in) None when accel. Only at low speeds. 25mph and below. Thump is timed to wheel speed. I’ll pull cover off this weekend. Maybe it’s the truetrac? I set backlash to .006” on front and rear but rear has a lot more lash now when spin driveshaft with tires on the ground. Im guessing it’s play in truetrac.
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Old 06-24-2019, 10:51 PM   #20
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Alright thanks all. Yes itís weird. Noise is loudest when coasting (neutral or step clutch in) None when accel. Only at low speeds. 25mph and below. Thump is timed to wheel speed. Iíll pull cover off this weekend. Maybe itís the truetrac? I set backlash to .006Ē on front and rear but rear has a lot more lash now when spin driveshaft with tires on the ground. Im guessing itís play in truetrac.


Shouldnít be play like that in the TruTrac.


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Old 06-29-2019, 12:53 AM
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Pulled cover this afternoon. Oil came out almost like new. Backlash is at .006”-.007”. Gears look great.

I can make noise come out on stands. Accelerate to around 20mph then press in clutch or throw in neutral.( Coasting with no load is when noise occurs, no noise when loaded accel or decel)

I did find where all the play is coming from, not r&p backlash but internal to truetrac. In this vid I have parking brakes in(axles held stationary) and you can see travel of carrier/ring gear when I rotate pinion.

Is it normal for a truetrac to have this amount of internal play? My front does not but it’s a Dana 30.

200miles on it so far.

Thanks
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Old 06-29-2019, 09:34 PM   #22
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That doesn't sound right.
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Old 07-04-2019, 03:04 AM
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Update. The noise is almost completely gone! After inspecting r&p and verifying it wasnt a bearing. I suspected truetrac. Searched online and found several similar.
Untitled by Ray zor, on Flickr

Untitled by Ray zor, on Flickr

Untitled by Ray zor, on Flickr

So after filling with fresh oil I decided to just drive it more. Finally took on freeway and noticed noise getting softer. More miles and even better. Around 260 miles almost gone.

Regarding backlash within truetrac, found this in install manual.
Untitled by Ray zor, on Flickr

Thanks all! Now can move on to other mods!

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