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Old 12-28-2016, 10:45 PM
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Mechanic did not install new carrier for gear swap.

Hello Guys,

I'm gonna keep this as short and sweet as possible. Bought a 2012 JKU Automatic with 35" tires already installed. Had a hunch that the previous owner did not bother re-gearing. Took it to mechanic "A" to see if he could check what the gearing ratio was. He confirmed that it was in fact stock. His quote was a bit high to re-gear from 3.23 to 4.56, so I decided to shop around.
I Did a lot of homework and bought the parts myself. Yukon 4.56 gears, master rebuild kits, front carrier for 3.73 and up and some new diff. covers.
I call into mechanic "B" and he gives me a better quote for the swap. he has no problem with me bringing my own parts. I show up to his shop and show him the parts and he asks me why I bought a new carrier. I told him that all the research ive done indicated that I would need one. Explained to him that my gears were 3.23 not 3.73. He nodded his head and I left him my jeep.
When I came to pick up my Jeep he handed the carrier to me and said that the gears fit in the original carrier and that I could send it back. I was feeling pretty good that I would get my $80.00 dollars back until my brain started thinking " can you put gears into the wrong carrier?"
So that is where I am at now. The car runs, definitely more pick up. There is a "whir" sound that wasn't there before, not high pitched or too loud. Kinda like the sound when you drive over a metal draw bridge. Is it possible that the mechanic jammed the gears into the wrong carrier? Should I be worried?

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to be clear about everything that went down.

Thank you,

-DaBug

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Old 12-29-2016, 02:13 AM   #2
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Hmm hope that he set it up correctly - Personally never done one but I know that it should not be noisy - esp if its new! Plenty of youtube clips on how to diagnose/shim/set backlash - is your mechanic experienced setting up diffs? There is also a running in procedure to optimize the new gearset - skip this and you'll cause problems


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Old 12-29-2016, 06:03 AM   #3
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Probably should of got someone experienced with doing JK gears. If you in fact did have 3:21 gears originally you would need a new front carrier. As far as that noise sounds like pinion bearing, maybe wrong preload. I would definitely have it checked...
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Old 12-29-2016, 06:38 AM   #4
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Did he give you the old gears back,would be easy to see what gears you had.And no it should not be noisy.
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Old 12-29-2016, 09:09 AM   #5
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Did he give you the old gears back,would be easy to see what gears you had.And no it should not be noisy.
Agreed if you have the old gears you can count the teeth to know what your original gearing was. Sounds like mechanic "A" had it wrong and you were in fact on 3.73's stock. And I agree with everyone else there should be no change in noise. I went from 3.21 to 4.56 and there was no new noise and I did have to swap carriers. Are you sure he didn't just give you your stock 3.21 carrier back? I would have someone else take a look at it, or take it back to him and ask a few questions.
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Old 12-29-2016, 09:36 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Dabug View Post
Hello Guys, I'm gonna keep this as short and sweet as possible. Bought a 2012 JKU Automatic with 35" tires already installed. Had a hunch that the previous owner did not bother re-gearing. Took it to mechanic "A" to see if he could check what the gearing ratio was. He confirmed that it was in fact stock. His quote was a bit high to re-gear from 3.23 to 4.56, so I decided to shop around. I Did a lot of homework and bought the parts myself. Yukon 4.56 gears, master rebuild kits, front carrier for 3.73 and up and some new diff. covers. I call into mechanic "B" and he gives me a better quote for the swap. he has no problem with me bringing my own parts. I show up to his shop and show him the parts and he asks me why I bought a new carrier. I told him that all the research ive done indicated that I would need one. Explained to him that my gears were 3.23 not 3.73. He nodded his head and I left him my jeep. When I came to pick up my Jeep he handed the carrier to me and said that the gears fit in the original carrier and that I could send it back. I was feeling pretty good that I would get my $80.00 dollars back until my brain started thinking " can you put gears into the wrong carrier?" So that is where I am at now. The car runs, definitely more pick up. There is a "whir" sound that wasn't there before, not high pitched or too loud. Kinda like the sound when you drive over a metal draw bridge. Is it possible that the mechanic jammed the gears into the wrong carrier? Should I be worried? Sorry for the long post but I wanted to be clear about everything that went down. Thank you, -DaBug
This is exactly why you NEVER buy your own gears and bring them to a shop! The mechanic can say the noise is coming from your gears not my install. Now you have to prove he's wrong...
If the shop had bought gears, done install and there is a problem, it's 100% on them.
If you bought the carrier, why wouldn't they install it, surely not to save you $80?? That would be equivalent to buying the bearing rebuild kit and they don't use it., because yours were fine. If I'm PAYING for putting in new gears, I sure as hell want a new carrier and bearings! Why would he do it half azzed?
I had my Jeep and just last week my F350 re-geared. No noise after the job was done. I'd bring it back and hope they stand behind their work AND decisions to not use the carrier. Good luck!

Your old diff cover should have a tag on it, saying what the ratio was/is. Your look up your vin and see what your jeep build came with...then you KNOW what you had/have for gears and carrier.



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Old 12-29-2016, 10:03 AM   #7
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It doesn't make sense the mechanic told you the new carrier wasn't needed, unless your Jeep came equipped with the 3.73's from the factory and you didn't know. If it came with 3.21's from the factory, a new carrier will be needed.

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Old 12-29-2016, 03:59 PM
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Took it back to the shop and went for drive with the front desk guy, he agreed that there was loud humming noise. Next was a drive with the mechanic. He said that he didn't hear anything unusual and I told him that there absolutely was. Told him that three other mechanics, every single forum I have visited and every tutorial I have read has stated that if the gearing is going from 3.21 to 4.56 a new front carrier is needed. He responded by saying that mechanics are like Doctors and they will all have different opinions on what needs to be done. That in the 19 years he has been doing this he has never changed a carrier on a gear swap (I started getting very upset at that point) I told him that there is a noise that needs to be fixed and I want my carrier installed, he agreed. I asked for the original ring and pinion back, 45 on the ring, 14 on the pinion=3.21. My mind is pretty blown right now. Mind you, this isn't a rinky dink little shit hole either. They sell jeep parts, have a bad ass jeep on display in their lobby, and had a few other Jeeps in the shop.
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Old 12-29-2016, 04:56 PM   #9
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While he's right to a point on everyone having a opinion the need for a new carrier is fact not opinion. Unless you were mistaken on your gear set he either A did not install the gears in the front or you are mistaking your old carrier. The new ring simply will not bolt up. The fact that he seems very dismissive of your fears should be a warning sign that he really does not care. Granted mechanics get tired of certain over the top worry wort customers you do not seem to be one. These vehicles are not cheap nor are their parts. He should be more accommodating in putting your fears to rest. The fact that he isn't could also point to a lack of confidence in his own work. My gear guy answered everyone of my questions and followed up after my cross county trip to ensure I will happy with his work ect and to see if any issues popped up. Hopefully you can get this sorted quickly.


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Old 12-29-2016, 05:23 PM   #10
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Yes the gears will bolt up to the old carrier. The issue with a carrier break is that because of the difference in thickness of the ring gears you can not get a good pattern and correct backlash set. Some shade tree mechanics just shim everything over a few thousands and call it good.

If I was a betting man (wich I am) I would bet the noise is because he shimed the hell out of one side and you are running way to low of back lash along with a shitty pattern. I bet the pinion is way to deep into the ring gear. Gears will not last long like this at all. Just my guess but an educated one at that.

It's always a good idea to ask for a picture of the pattern and the specs everything was set up to.
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Old 12-29-2016, 09:16 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Dabug View Post
Took it back to the shop and went for drive with the front desk guy, he agreed that there was loud humming noise. Next was a drive with the mechanic. He said that he didn't hear anything unusual and I told him that there absolutely was. Told him that three other mechanics, every single forum I have visited and every tutorial I have read has stated that if the gearing is going from 3.21 to 4.56 a new front carrier is needed. He responded by saying that mechanics are like Doctors and they will all have different opinions on what needs to be done. That in the 19 years he has been doing this he has never changed a carrier on a gear swap (I started getting very upset at that point) I told him that there is a noise that needs to be fixed and I want my carrier installed, he agreed. I asked for the original ring and pinion back, 45 on the ring, 14 on the pinion=3.21. My mind is pretty blown right now. Mind you, this isn't a rinky dink little shit hole either. They sell jeep parts, have a bad ass jeep on display in their lobby, and had a few other Jeeps in the shop.
Find the owner and talk to him/her. Get the warranty in writing. Also I would absolutely DEMAND to see the gears, pinion for inspection after he pulls the Carrier. If they're damaged, they need to replace them.
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Old 12-30-2016, 07:46 AM   #12
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If you ordered thick gears (ring gear), then you would not need a new carrier.


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Old 12-30-2016, 08:32 AM   #13
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Or maybe he instead a spacer?
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Old 12-30-2016, 11:29 AM   #14
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Now you know why guy "B" was cheaper.
Since you provided the parts he will just blame those and wash his hands of it.

I would take it to a legitimate axle shop and have them do it over. Now that these gears have been run they will prob want to replace them.

Any bubba can slam some gears in and have them turn the wheels. Heck even I have done it.. It was noisy but worked.
It takes a skilled mechanic with the right tools to do it correctly and have it come out as quiet as factory.
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Old 12-30-2016, 01:00 PM   #15
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Yes the gears will bolt up to the old carrier. The issue with a carrier break is that because of the difference in thickness of the ring gears you can not get a good pattern and correct backlash set. Some shade tree mechanics just shim everything over a few thousands and call it good.

If I was a betting man (wich I am) I would bet the noise is because he shimed the hell out of one side and you are running way to low of back lash along with a shitty pattern. I bet the pinion is way to deep into the ring gear. Gears will not last long like this at all. Just my guess but an educated one at that.

It's always a good idea to ask for a picture of the pattern and the specs everything was set up to.
My thoughts exactly. No way he gets a good pattern with a 3.21 carrier and 4.56 gears. Nuh uh.
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Old 12-30-2016, 01:19 PM   #16
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My thoughts exactly. No way he gets a good pattern with a 3.21 carrier and 4.56 gears. Nuh uh.
Yes you can. You buy a "thick" 4.56 gearset. Done. The days of having to replace a carrier are gone.
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Old 12-30-2016, 02:02 PM   #17
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Yes you can. You buy a "thick" 4.56 gearset. Done. The days of having to replace a carrier are gone.
That's assuming the O.P. actually bought thick gears. Maybe he did without realizing it?
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Old 12-30-2016, 03:14 PM   #18
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Sounds like sketchy work. Yes you can use the 3.21 carrier, but should you, no.

There should be no new noise. I have had multiple regear done and they have always been silent.

I know that hind site is 20/20 but it is best to find a place that other Jeepers in your area use and that has a solid reputation.
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Old 12-30-2016, 06:18 PM   #19
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Yes you can. You buy a "thick" 4.56 gearset. Done. The days of having to replace a carrier are gone.
Just getting thick gears isn't the end of it. With thicker gears on that carrier, there's more to be done than just slapping them on and going.
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Old 12-30-2016, 07:23 PM   #20
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I've owned my own shop for over 25 years and never ever let a customers supply their own parts for this very reason.
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Old 12-30-2016, 07:55 PM   #21
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I've owned my own shop for over 25 years and never ever let a customers supply their own parts for this very reason.
I'm sorry but this statement makes no sense. If you own a shop and are capable of ordering the proper parts for a job then you should be capable of determining if the customer supplied the correct parts or not. I totally see why shops would not install used parts but there is no reason not to install new parts except to get a percentage of the cost of the parts. If the parts are faulty the manufacturer should warranty them. If the installation was done improperly which is what clearly happened here then the shop should cover the repairs including new parts if needed.
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Old 12-30-2016, 08:47 PM   #22
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I'm sorry but this statement makes no sense. If you own a shop and are capable of ordering the proper parts for a job then you should be capable of determining if the customer supplied the correct parts or not. I totally see why shops would not install used parts but there is no reason not to install new parts except to get a percentage of the cost of the parts. If the parts are faulty the manufacturer should warranty them. If the installation was done improperly which is what clearly happened here then the shop should cover the repairs including new parts if needed.
Maybe OP's parts are defective? How do you clearly know they are not?

Why should the shop have to go research parts that could have came from who knows where when he isn't even making money on them? And when that Autozone or no-name ebay part fails who's reputation takes a hit? The customer wont admit he messed up so he will blame the shop. It becomes a blame game like I am sure how it will end up in this case.

And when that part fails who eats the rework?
How does he warranty the job?

When I have shops do work for me I let them use their own parts. Then they own that job 100%. If anything goes wrong parts OR labor its fully on them.
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Old 12-30-2016, 09:16 PM   #23
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Maybe OP's parts are defective? How do you clearly know they are not?

Why should the shop have to go research parts that could have came from who knows where when he isn't even making money on them? And when that Autozone or no-name ebay part fails who's reputation takes a hit? The customer wont admit he messed up so he will blame the shop. It becomes a blame game like I am sure how it will end up in this case.

And when that part fails who eats the rework?
How does he warranty the job?

When I have shops do work for me I let them use their own parts. Then they own that job 100%. If anything goes wrong parts OR labor its fully on them.
If you read the OP's post then you will see that the shop did not install all of the parts supplied as they were asked to and as the company that sold the parts recommended (This was sold as a kit specific to the application). The mechanic took it on him self to not install the parts as recommended by the manufacturer and did not even call the OP to ask for his permission before doing so. The fact that the mechanic did not install all of the parts from the kit is the first indication that the installation is at fault. The second indication is that the gears are now making noise. We will never know if the parts were bad or not because the mechanic did not install them properly so chances are they are messed up now.

If the shop choses not to let people bring in parts from now on that is fine but they told this customer it was fine. I know we are only getting one side of the story but in this case it really sounds like a case of the mechanic not knowing what he was doing.

Also I still contend that the real reason that most shops do not allow customers to bring in parts is simply because they want to make a percentage of the parts cost. Otherwise they would not mark up the parts when they order them. Also many shops will only order from certain companies that they have agreements with where the customer may be able to get the very same parts shipped new from a different supplier (still the same manufacturer) at a much better cost.
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Old 12-30-2016, 10:15 PM   #24
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I brought a steak into a restaurant and they would not cool it for me lol. Of course a shop is in the business to make money. It's great if they let you bring parts in but I understand why they wouldn't.
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Old 12-30-2016, 10:15 PM   #25
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Yes I read OP's post and I don't doubt the shop screwed up. They most likely had no business doing this job.

My point is that there is a reason why reputable shops don't like to install other peoples parts. The fact this one did is a red flag in my mind. Its just opening the door for drama.

Yes shops make markup on parts. They are in business to make profit.
With the extra profit on the parts comes the responsibility of having to stand behind the whole job. Parts and labor. They don't get to blame the part and walk away. They have to eat any rework and fix it. Any issues are not the customer's concern.

Unfortunately I think OP is in for a fight.
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Old 12-30-2016, 10:44 PM   #26
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Yes I read OP's post and I don't doubt the shop screwed up. They most likely had no business doing this job.

My point is that there is a reason why reputable shops don't like to install other peoples parts. The fact this one did is a red flag in my mind. Its just opening the door for drama.

Yes shops make markup on parts. They are in business to make profit.
With the extra profit on the parts comes the responsibility of having to stand behind the whole job. Parts and labor. They don't get to blame the part and walk away. They have to eat any rework and fix it. Any issues are not the customer's concern.

Unfortunately I think OP is in for a fight.
I do understand your points and I think that you are right the OP probably is in for a fight. However I still think the mechanic is at fault and therefore the shop should cover it.

I realize that businesses need to make a profit so it does make sense that many reputable shops only install their own parts. Also you make a good point that it is probably the safest way to go to ensure that both the parts and labor are covered. I bet the OP will take all of that into account next time. However I have had work done at more than one reputable shop that let me order my own parts. In these cases all of the parts were made by major brand name manufacturers and were shipped brand new from the supplier to the shop so the shop had no reason to question the quality or origin of the parts.
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Old 12-30-2016, 10:56 PM   #27
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I brought a steak into a restaurant and they would not cool it for me lol. Of course a shop is in the business to make money. It's great if they let you bring parts in but I understand why they wouldn't.
I totally agree with you although I think your analogy is a bit questionable since there are laws preventing restaurants from cooking outside food.

The problem is that in this case the shop said that it was ok for the OP to bring in his own parts and then they did not install them properly. The issue of the post is not whether or not a shop should let a customer bring in their own parts but rather the question of whether the parts were properly installed by the shop or not.
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Old 12-31-2016, 01:23 AM   #28
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Man that sucks. You are definitely in for a fight, as others have stated. Do NOT lose your cool, go over the mechanics head, and speak to the owner. Remember, the minute you lose your temper you will lose the fight, and they will do nothing for you. Be kind, be courteous, be logical.

I will say you are probably going to have to go to another shop and redo everything. I know thats not what you want to hear, but prep for it.

My cousin recently did the same thing, his diff was on its way out and he asked me my advice on a shop. Well, he ignored it, bought his own gears and went to his guy, who does not specialize in diffs, and had a much cheaper price. Lots of whirring, improper backlash. Ate up his gears in a months time. This was not on a Jeep, but same concept.
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Old 12-31-2016, 08:07 AM
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So I got the Jeep back, I really wish this story had a happy ending but as many of you assumed it does not. When I took the Jeep back and got into an argument over the carrier they told that they wouldn't be able to work on it until after the new year that I could bring it back then. I told them I would leave it there because I did not want to drive the car with poorly installed gears. I ride my bike to work and have my wife's old car as a back up anyway. I get a text the next morning saying that the jeep was ready. I was elated but also felt a bit guilty that these guys didn't close for the holidays to work on my car. I go to pick up the Jeep after work and it turns out they stayed up until 11 working n the thing. I was really touched now and appreciated the effort. They charged me an extra $170 which I didn't think I should have paid but I didn't wanna fight anymore and again, they stayed up till 11 fixing it. I took the jeep for a spin with one the guys and the noise is gone. Everything is running smooth and I'm happy. I drop the mechanic off a the shop and start driving home. Then I hear slight scraping sound... that turns into a loud grinding sound and my heart just sinks as my blood pressure goes thru the roof. I'm going to have to let mechanic "A" tell me what the problem is when I take it back to him to check all the work mechanic "B" did. Right now I'm practicing my "I'm a ****ing idiot, please fix my Jeep" face. All the parts I bought were fine. They were the correct Yukon gears and carrier. They weren't thick gears or anything like that. Mechanic "B" has probably always just used a spacer to get the gears to fit. I have read that this is not a good solution for axles that use two carriers for different gear ranges. He even has pics of gear swap in progress on his twitter feed. As some of you have stated, yes I should have just let mechanic "A" do the job with out me getting the parts. However, I would still have shopped around, Mechanic "B" would still have given me a better price, he would have done the gear swap without the carrier and I would have never known. I only really drive the Jeep on the weekends. I live in Florida so we don't really have heavy duty trails. I think those gears would have lasted way past his warranty and I would still be screwed. Having said all that, I do think I could've avoided the situation if I used a little common sense and not been greedy. For some of you these things will be apparent but I'm gonna share my thoughts in the hopes that someone else doesn't do the same mistake. Both mechanic "A" and "B" are Jeep shops, and both have great reviews on the internet and both have a plethora of their built jeeps online. How should I have known to go mechanic "A"? Well, mechanic "A" had a lot of "ugly" Jeeps at his shop. They had scratches, dings, mud and roll cages. These Jeeps just got out of Prison, got into ten bar fights and now want to eat you while they make sweet, sweet love to your wife. These were serious machines built to go off road. Mechanic "B" had a lot of "Pretty" jeeps. Very shiny, $9000.00 dollar sounds systems, $1000.00 rims, every single LED light and $500.00 lifts (You cant see that, so who cares) These jeeps giggle when you tickle them. The owners probably only use them to go to the beach, so of course he is not gonna have bad reviews regarding the "guts" of the Jeeps because the owners don't care about that. Now of course, this all speculation, but from what I can gather this seems to be the case. I actually met a guy at one of my sons baseballs games who had what seemed to be a monster of a jeep. He had the works done to it. It even had an automatic convertible soft top. I asked him how it did on the trails and he told me he would never take it out to the trails because he didn't want to scratch the rims. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, it's his Jeep and his money. Mechanic "B" would have been the right mechanic for him. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I should of done a little bit more research not just into the parts and procedures of the job I wanted done, but also should of paid attention into the types of Jeeps mechanics are building even if they both have excellent reputations. Thank you all for your comments and sharing your wisdom. I will take it to heart and hopefully I can avoid some mishaps on the future.
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Old 12-31-2016, 09:01 AM   #30
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Location: central pa mountains
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Unfortunate experience, I hope you get it sorted out

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