No Start situation unless I press the clutch in??? - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Tech Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Like Tree4Likes
  • 2 Post By 0REDSOX7
  • 1 Post By terpsmandan
  • 1 Post By rgreen65
Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 08-24-2017, 07:24 AM
Thread Starter
  #1
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Eastern Poland
Posts: 90
No Start situation unless I press the clutch in???

OK I know this will be an odd one for you techies...But I never had this before, it is a 2012 JK Sport CRD, Manual 6 speed, well maintained and in very good condition. Always has started on the key, first turn even in -30C.......Yesterday the wife borrowed it (left me her new CRD, Auto, Rubicon)......She said she had a no start situation on it while she was out...turned the key on and off about 5 times and it then started...but I guess she pressed the clutch pedal....today I disconnected the battery tested voltage, all good, cleaned the terminals and tried to start again. No go and an engine light. Press the clutch and it starts as usual first touch of the key. I am baffled? is the clutch connected in some way to the start system? when I was a boy I used to drive a Ford 5000 tractor that wouldn't start unless in neutral...is it something like that.? I am a habitual 'clutch in to start' kind of guy...(old trucker). Or is it trying to tell me that some other sub-system is beginning to fail?

HMS Dreadnought is offline   Quote
Old 08-24-2017, 07:29 AM   #2
Jeeper
 
MW2016's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: East Texas
Posts: 810
All modern vehicles are clutch-to-start.

__________________
Carpe Diem
MW2016 is offline   Quote
Old 08-24-2017, 07:31 AM   #3
Jeeper
 
C.L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: North NJ
Posts: 2,897
Not sure if they do it differently overseas, but here EVERY manual has to have the clutch in to start.
C.L. is offline   Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-24-2017, 07:31 AM   #4
Jeeper
 
MarkY3130's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Denver
Posts: 79
Been that way a long time now. At least in the US


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
MarkY3130 is offline   Quote
Old 08-24-2017, 07:47 AM   #5
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 787
This is designed into all US vehicles because somewhere at some point, someone started their car in gear and it went through the garage wall, then of course they sued the manufacturer and won.

Many off-road oriented vehicles have a clutch interlock defeat switch so that you can engage the starter without the clutch, like if you are in the middle of a climb and have to stop for some reason, you can put the vehicle in low gear low range and use the starter to get going again without briefly slipping backwards.

I know the Tacoma has the clutch defeat and I would think that the Wrangler does too (don't know for sure as my left leg damage precluded me from even looking at manuals)
__________________
SOLD 2017 Big Bear 2 Door
Granite Crystal Metallic

Automatic, 3.73 tow package
Dasaita 10.2" Head Unit
CJREX is offline   Quote
Old 08-24-2017, 07:53 AM   #6
Jeeper
 
0REDSOX7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 899
Only can start it without the clutch pressed when you are in 4-Lo (in the US at least)
wadewolf and Leadnut like this.
0REDSOX7 is offline   Quote
Old 08-24-2017, 10:03 AM
Thread Starter
  #7
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Eastern Poland
Posts: 90
Thanks guys...I really appreciate this.....especially since I am halfway around the world (Poland) and didn't expect answers so quick. Maybe I have always put the clutch in to start before ?? and just not noticed this. Still getting used to not being able to take the key out of the wife automatic unlimited, until in PARK.....last auto I had was a Vanden Plas Princess 4Litre R....in about 1975.
HMS Dreadnought is offline   Quote
Old 09-07-2017, 09:08 AM   #8
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Bradenton, FL
Posts: 19
always like that i have an 89 and it is like that and my 17. Also, it is because you couldnt start it in gear? it wouldnt idle so it would just mess shit up
PICKLEJK is offline   Quote
Old 09-07-2017, 10:00 AM   #9
Jeeper
 
terpsmandan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Penn Yan, NY
Posts: 2,053
I had a clutch cable snap in a 73 Pinto once when I was 30 miles from home. No clutch interlock. Shut it off at the traffic light. Turned the key in first gear to get it moving and fished my way through the box with out the clutch to get it up to speed and made it home.
jwt873 likes this.
terpsmandan is offline   Quote
Old 09-08-2017, 08:48 AM   #10
Jeeper
 
jwt873's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,068
I had a '70 Maverick without the clutch interlock. You had to be careful because if you didn't have your foot on the clutch and the car was in gear, it would suddenly lurch forward when you turned the key.

One day I stalled pulling in my driveway and couldn't get the engine started. The back end of the car was sticking way out into the street, so I just put it in gear, let my foot off the clutch, turned the key and let the starter motor pull me 10 feet ahead into my spot.

Ah the good old days
jwt873 is offline   Quote
Old 09-08-2017, 09:07 AM   #11
Jeeper
 
rgreen65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: S. Georgia
Posts: 6,365
I know the '91 Wrangler did not have the interlock (I had one) although most other manual transmission vehicles did by then. I honestly don't remember if my '90 Dodge W250 did or not. It became such an ingrained habit to get in, put key in ignition and start. Oh, how about that the transmission is in neutral and the clutch depressed.

It probably became an issue in the '70s and '80s when the youngsters no longer learned on a manual. I know when I took my '76 Plymouth Volare with the 4 speed to the car wash, I always had to put it on the conveyor and meet it when it came of because non of the kids working there had a clue about how to drive a manual.

There's a lot of truth to this:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1934060_10153781126772856_7201385356119721921_n.jpg
Views:	95
Size:	42.9 KB
ID:	3744073  
dodgeman762 likes this.
__________________
2003 Light Khaki TJ Rubicon, Manual, Soft Top
2015 Anvil JKU Sahara, Auto, Hard Top - Traded
2017 Chief JKU Chief, Auto, Hard Top
rgreen65 is offline   Quote
Old 09-09-2017, 01:14 PM
Thread Starter
  #12
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Eastern Poland
Posts: 90
Leave the plastic cap off the High Low lever. in Neutral..millenials wont touch a bare stick!!
HMS Dreadnought is offline   Quote
Old 09-09-2017, 01:37 PM   #13
Jeeper
 
rgreen65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: S. Georgia
Posts: 6,365
Yeah, I can see this. Leave the Jeep (MT of course) unlocked with the key in the ignition. Two kids decide they can handle this and want to go on a joy ride. They get in, it won't start. Nothing, NADA. All the instruments are on, but it won't crank.

They call a buddy, he's a year older and knows everything, ya know. He tells them about the clutch trick, just push in the clutch. The first one turns to his friend and asks which pedal is the clutch. They decide on the middle one. They push on it, turn the key, NADA. They decide that their buddy may not really know everything. So, they call buddy2 who knows a whole lot more than everything, because he's like two years older, ya know.

He tell them the clutch is on the left, he thinks. They finally get it started, let the clutch out and it doesn't move. They race the engine, but it doesn't move. They try every gear, nothing works. They get out, shake their heads and walk away from the Jeep that must be broken.

Owner comes back, shift the transmission into neutral, transfer case to 4H (it had been in neutral), presses the clutch, starts the Jeep and smoothly drives off. If they don't know how to drive a stick, how in the world would they know about a transfer case?
__________________
2003 Light Khaki TJ Rubicon, Manual, Soft Top
2015 Anvil JKU Sahara, Auto, Hard Top - Traded
2017 Chief JKU Chief, Auto, Hard Top
rgreen65 is offline   Quote
Old 09-09-2017, 04:53 PM   #14
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 405
To the OP: Not sure if the Euro Wrangler has the interlock, but if it does you can defeat the clutch interlock switch by shorting out the two wires that run to it. The cruise control should use a different switch.

Clutch interlocks are a horrible idea from the engine point of view because cranking and starting the engine with 1500 lbs of end thrust on the crank and zero oil pressure is bad. Really bad. On some engines it will wipe out the crank thrust bearing.
dstevens is offline   Quote
Old 09-10-2017, 04:54 PM   #15
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 385
Defeating the clutch interlock won't throw a code?
don mega is offline   Quote
Old 09-11-2017, 09:28 AM   #16
Jeeper
 
sparky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Phila
Posts: 3,488
Quote:
Originally Posted by HMS Dreadnought View Post
Leave the plastic cap off the High Low lever. in Neutral..millenials wont touch a bare stick!!
Better have a good parking brake for that. There's a reason we park in gear.
__________________
Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.
sparky is offline   Quote
Old 09-16-2017, 10:16 AM
Thread Starter
  #17
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Eastern Poland
Posts: 90
Good parking Brake on a JK??? I have not found a good one yet...even the wifes new 2017 JK Rubicon unlimited was.....well crap...wouldn't hold on anything more than a minor slope.
HMS Dreadnought is offline   Quote
Old 09-17-2017, 05:34 AM   #18
Jeeper
 
Maddening's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by MW2016 View Post
All modern vehicles are clutch-to-start.
Not everywhere in the world. Spent many years in Europe myself and had a newer Honda, and new Golf that were not clutch in to start. That is a USA regulation.
__________________
-Vic
'17 JK
'77 J10
Maddening is offline   Quote
Old 09-24-2017, 09:35 AM   #19
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddening View Post
Not everywhere in the world. Spent many years in Europe myself and had a newer Honda, and new Golf that were not clutch in to start. That is a USA regulation.


So, if you left it in gear and hit the key... it would just start up and drive away??



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
kenny kustom is offline   Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 04:38 AM   #20
Jeeper
 
Maddening's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny kustom View Post
So, if you left it in gear and hit the key... it would just start up and drive away??
I guess it could, you are pretty likely to realize your mistake and hit the brake and let go of the key before that really happens. It's more of a safety thing, if your car stops running for any reason you can use the starter to get off the road or highway (autobahns with no speed limit come to mind) or out of an intersection.
__________________
-Vic
'17 JK
'77 J10
Maddening is offline   Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 06:17 AM   #21
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 261
Quite the opposite.
Its more of a safety thing, that you can start without clutch.
I really cannot believe the euro cars do this???

If a kid was in the car, he could start it, and it would drive away.
Who gives a crap about being able to move it off the highway, when little Jonny is dead, because little tommy ran him over in the driveway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
kenny kustom is offline   Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 07:53 AM   #22
Jeeper
 
Maddening's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 218
LOL... OK then.
__________________
-Vic
'17 JK
'77 J10
Maddening is offline   Quote
Old 09-25-2017, 08:12 AM   #23
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by HMS Dreadnought View Post
Thanks guys...I really appreciate this.....especially since I am halfway around the world (Poland) and didn't expect answers so quick. Maybe I have always put the clutch in to start before ?? and just not noticed this. Still getting used to not being able to take the key out of the wife automatic unlimited, until in PARK.....last auto I had was a Vanden Plas Princess 4Litre R....in about 1975.


Why would you want to take the key out of the ignition while its still in gear???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
kenny kustom is offline   Quote
Old 09-26-2017, 10:32 AM   #24
Jeeper
 
rgreen65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: S. Georgia
Posts: 6,365
You wouldn't, just as you normally would not want to start a manual without either pushing in the clutch or shifting into neutral. It's the nanny state that has mandated you cannot do it differently.

Those who are older and learned to drive on manuals and were properly instructed show themselves when they first get into a vehicle with a manual transmission. The very first thing they do before hitting the starter is to shift in neutral and the motion is distinct for they move the lever into neutral and move it from side to side to verify that it is. I noticed on Velocity's Chasing Classic Cars with Wayne Carini. He climbed into an early 20th Century car and did just what I described, moved the shift lever into what he thought was neutral and then moved it from side to side to verify that was in fact in neutral, only then did he start the car.

Fifty years ago, basic driver training taught this as well as the two basic facts of safe parking, 1) never ever leave the key in the ignition if you are leaving the vehicle for any period of time and 2) never ever park the vehicle without setting the parking brake. I confess that I have gotten sloppy over the years on the latter when parking an automatic but never in a manual.

How many park with the front wheels turned properly on a hill?
How many know which way to turn the wheels?
How many use chocks or even have them?

Most of us have become too trusting of the mandated systems and have forgotten some of the basics and many of our younger members have never been exposed to them.
__________________
2003 Light Khaki TJ Rubicon, Manual, Soft Top
2015 Anvil JKU Sahara, Auto, Hard Top - Traded
2017 Chief JKU Chief, Auto, Hard Top
rgreen65 is offline   Quote
Old 09-27-2017, 07:04 AM   #25
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 261
Thats a lot of fight... just about pushing the clutch in to start.
Find me a brand new vehicle that allows you to start without the clutch.
You wont.
I grew up driving stick, and habit is to push both the brake and the clutch to start.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
kenny kustom is offline   Quote
Old 09-27-2017, 09:08 AM   #26
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 385
Bureaucrats ruin everything. Back in the old days I only had to flush the toilet one time.
don mega is offline   Quote
Old 09-28-2017, 08:19 AM   #27
Jeeper
 
rgreen65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: S. Georgia
Posts: 6,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny kustom View Post
Thats a lot of fight... just about pushing the clutch in to start.
Find me a brand new vehicle that allows you to start without the clutch.
You wont.
I grew up driving stick, and habit is to push both the brake and the clutch to start.
Yeah, we didn't mention the brake. After a while the whole process becomes so second nature you don't even think of the steps, you just do them. Foot on the brake, press in the clutch, shift into neutral, verify, put left foot on the brake, right foot on the accelerator, start the vehicle. Put right foot on the brake, press in clutch with left foot, shift into gear, ease out.

On another episode of Chasing Classic Cars, Wayne and other owners of 4 and 5 speed manual sports cars had gone out to a local race track (using the parking lot) and were teaching local teens how to drive sticks. Wayne had a girl and she was obsessed with watching her feet as she went through the let up on the clutch and ease down on the accelerator. She finally got it though.

Funny thing is I can remember my Dad teaching me to drive (it was 1956, I was 13 and in the family's '54 Ford), but don't remember all the jerking and stalling, but we all do it until we get the hand of it. Shoot 61 years later I on occasion stall my TJ.
__________________
2003 Light Khaki TJ Rubicon, Manual, Soft Top
2015 Anvil JKU Sahara, Auto, Hard Top - Traded
2017 Chief JKU Chief, Auto, Hard Top
rgreen65 is offline   Quote
Old 09-30-2017, 08:16 AM
Thread Starter
  #28
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Eastern Poland
Posts: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny kustom View Post
Why would you want to take the key out of the ignition while its still in gear???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Kenny....you must have a way better parking brake on yours than mine has. On my sport, I have to put the Jeep in Low range 4WD and turn off the engine just to have a hope of it staying put on a slope.
HMS Dreadnought is offline   Quote
Old 09-30-2017, 11:43 PM   #29
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by HMS Dreadnought View Post
Kenny....you must have a way better parking brake on yours than mine has. On my sport, I have to put the Jeep in Low range 4WD and turn off the engine just to have a hope of it staying put on a slope.


I was responding to a post, that questioned why he couldnt take the key out, unless it was in park.
Automatic...
this has been a weird thread?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

kenny kustom is offline   Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off






All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Jeep, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, Gladiator, Mopar and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to FCA US LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with FCA US LLC.