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Old 06-28-2015, 09:31 AM
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Rancho vs higher rate springs

I have a new take offs of rubicon shocks and 19/59 springs and an in between these and the rancho 9000 2 inch lift. I put the rubi setup on my old jk and got 2 inches all around and rode great never had any issues. The springs on my new jk are 13/55 so I'll get a similar lift as last time. I like the rancho for a lil more height and the adjustability. But I've seen some that had to add adjustable links etc. I don't want to get too deep into having to change components, but want something good off road as well as on. Would I need to swap anything besides what's in the kit for the rancho. I'm running a 2 door with a soft top with 33's. What are the benefits of each as well as cons. Jeep is brand new and don't want to have to run into replacing things before it's time. Will be for mild wheeling and as DD.

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Old 06-28-2015, 09:39 AM   #2
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Not a big deal. For $50 or so grab some RE or RC 10" rear links and move the rears to the front.

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Old 06-28-2015, 10:26 AM   #3
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Lift is lift, it doesn't matter whether it comes from spacers, longer factory springs or aftermarket springs. As you lift you begin to change geometry in certain areas.

The sway bars begin to rest at an angle that is less desirable for performance and if goes too far, you are at risk for the dreaded sway bar flip. You also decrease caster which causes a flighty steering and wandering feeling if it goes out of spec. The stock shocks are no longer operating in the optimum range and are subject to topping out as well.

At about 1.5" most everything stays within spec... Even TF supplies sway bar links on their 1.5 leveling kit. But at 2" and above you should check those things or you can end up with a sketchy driving Jeep, and nobody wants a sketchy driving Jeep.

As kjeeper10 said, it's nothing to add some sway bar links, etc...
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Old 06-28-2015, 12:25 PM   #4
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Lift is lift, it doesn't matter whether it comes from spacers, longer factory springs or aftermarket springs. As you lift you begin to change geometry in certain areas. ...
This brings up a question.

I've read that factory springs can vary 1/4" per spring number. That would indicate there is something like 1" - 2" variation in STOCK suspension rude height.

I doubt and have never read or heard that the factory makes any geometry or caster adjustments for this 1" - 2" range. Presumably because at that range the factory set up remains within acceptable specifications.

Now - moving on to modifications:

I'd think installing any factory springs would require no other modification. Owners that started with the lowest factory springs could gain some lift with everything else remaining within spec.

When installing a spacer lift, those who have the lower factory springs are less likely to have geometry/caster issues since they are presumably at the lower end of the factory specs. Where someone starting with the highest factory springs is more likely to experience geometry/caster issues. Both would gain a fixed net lift due to the physical spacer. Ride height would still vary due to different factory springs.

When installing aftermarket springs, you'd be removing the variable factory springs. End results (ride height, geometry and caster) would be the same (other than weight factor). However net ride height gain would vary based on what springs you started with.
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Old 06-28-2015, 12:35 PM
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That's what i thought what links are good to put on the rear if I swap the rears to the front without spending a ton of money
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Old 06-28-2015, 12:51 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by 14Trailcrawler View Post
This brings up a question.

I've read that factory springs can vary 1/4" per spring number. That would indicate there is something like 1" - 2" variation in STOCK suspension rude height.

I doubt and have never read or heard that the factory makes any geometry or caster adjustments for this 1" - 2" range. Presumably because at that range the factory set up remains within acceptable specifications.

Now - moving on to modifications:

I'd think installing any factory springs would require no other modification. Owners that started with the lowest factory springs could gain some lift with everything else remaining within spec.

When installing a spacer lift, those who have the lower factory springs are less likely to have geometry/caster issues since they are presumably at the lower end of the factory specs. Where someone starting with the highest factory springs is more likely to experience geometry/caster issues. Both would gain a fixed net lift due to the physical spacer. Ride height would still vary due to different factory springs.

When installing aftermarket springs, you'd be removing the variable factory springs. End results (ride height, geometry and caster) would be the same (other than weight factor). However net ride height gain would vary based on what springs you started with.
That is not how it works. I understand your logic, but the springs are set based on the specs of the Jeep to essentially give the same ride height to all Jeeps as they leave the factory. Jeeps with A/C are heavier, Jeeps with hard tops are heavier, Jeeps with the upgrade sound system are heavier, Jeeps with the towing package are heavier, 4drs are a lot heavier than 2drs, etc. The caster spec on the control arms and axle are not adjustable, therefore Jeep tries to send them all from the plant within spec and must put taller springs on to compensate for extra weight from added accessories. It's that simple.

Longer factory springs are no different than aftermarket springs when it comes to providing lift. You are essentially adding a lift kit when you put tall 4dr springs on a 2dr. Lift kits require more than springs to do it right.
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- Mopar 2" Frankenlift - Teraflex Falcon Shocks - RE TB/Brackets - JKS mount/Bilstein stabilizer -
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bumper - Yukon Gears - G2 Diff Covers - Pro Comp 8186 - Milestar Patagonia 35's - Teraflex BRK
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Old 06-28-2015, 12:59 PM   #7
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Quote:
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That is not how it works. I understand your logic, but the springs are set based on the specs of the Jeep to essentially give the same ride height to all Jeeps as they leave the factory. Jeeps with A/C are heavier, Jeeps with hard tops are heavier, Jeeps with the upgrade sound system are heavier, Jeeps with the towing package are heavier, 4drs are a lot heavier than 2drs, etc. The caster spec on the control arms and axle are not adjustable, therefore Jeep tries to send them all from the plant within spec and must put taller springs on to compensate for extra weight from added accessories. It's that simple.

Longer factory springs are no different than aftermarket springs when it comes to providing lift. You are essentially adding a lift kit when you put tall 4dr springs on a 2dr. Lift kits require more than springs to do it right.
That makes complete sense. However, my 2015 JKU Willys came with 58 rears and that's with hardtop, trailering package, A/C.......
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Old 06-28-2015, 01:10 PM   #8
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That makes complete sense. However, my 2015 JKU Willys came with 58 rears and that's with hardtop, trailering package, A/C.......
I would have guessed 59's based on your spec's, but there are only 2 taller springs than what you have, so it's close...

I'm ignoring the 10A springs which had a different specified ride height from the factory.

Even then, there is still some small variance in ride height on stock Jeeps. Probably 1/4" max. In 2013 I did an experiment with a dealership friend and we found 2 identically spec'd Sahara's on their lot, except 1 had the 430 radio and the other had the 730. 1 had 59's and the other had 58's in the rear. NOTHING else was different, hard to explain...
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- Mopar 2" Frankenlift - Teraflex Falcon Shocks - RE TB/Brackets - JKS mount/Bilstein stabilizer -
Rugged Ridge XHD
bumper - Yukon Gears - G2 Diff Covers - Pro Comp 8186 - Milestar Patagonia 35's - Teraflex BRK
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Old 06-28-2015, 02:08 PM   #9
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That is not how it works. I understand your logic, but the springs are set based on the specs of the Jeep to essentially give the same ride height to all Jeeps as they leave the factory. Jeeps with A/C are heavier, Jeeps with hard tops are heavier, Jeeps with the upgrade sound system are heavier, Jeeps with the towing package are heavier, 4drs are a lot heavier than 2drs, etc. The caster spec on the control arms and axle are not adjustable, therefore Jeep tries to send them all from the plant within spec and must put taller springs on to compensate for extra weight from added accessories. It's that simple. Longer factory springs are no different than aftermarket springs when it comes to providing lift. You are essentially adding a lift kit when you put tall 4dr springs on a 2dr. Lift kits require more than springs to do it right.
Ah yes that does make sense.

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