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Old 04-21-2016, 07:45 PM
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RE 3.5 Sport Kit with Steering Issues

Ok WF, I need some help.

So I installed a RE 3.5" Sport Lift on my 2016 JKU Rubicon about 2000 miles ago. I have this strange issue when I drive down the road and hit a bump (one or both tires), the steering wheel flutters from the left to right and back to center really quick. Also when the suspension compresses and decompresses as I hit dips in the road it also does this.

Braking and acceleration cause it (Causes front suspension to compress and decompress)

If I push up and down on the front bumper, it does the same thing only slower. I believe this eliminates quite a bit form the equation as a cause.

Also if I tip the jeep from left and right it does the same thing.

The drag link and track bar are almost identical angles.

Nothing is loose or worn out as it is a new jeep, and the only place I see anything moving when the front bumper is pushed up and down is the steering gear.

I have already started working with RE and they seem puzzled too.

The track bar relocation bracket on the front axle and the high steer kit are pretty standard throughout the industry so this is a straight forward geometry set up I think.

One additional note, when the steering wheel does this, the jeep doesn't pull left or right and tracks pretty straight.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You
Dave

Pushing up and down on the bumper
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9...0djQ3FiaE0ybjQ

Pushing side to side
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9...Gp1WE9rZ0s5NHM

Driving down the road.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9...m5RLVVwalRDV3M

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Old 04-21-2016, 07:52 PM   #2
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The parallel angles on the steering geometry for 3.5" lift kits or higher are for the draglink and tierod, not draglink and track bar...

What your describing is called bumpsteer and in subtle ways, it is normal for a front solid axle setup, although too much bumpsteer is not good and should be corrected.

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Old 04-21-2016, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sined240 View Post
The parallel angles on the steering geometry for 3.5" lift kits or higher are for the draglink and tierod, not draglink and track bar...

What your describing is called bumpsteer and in subtle ways, it is normal for a front solid axle setup, although too much bumpsteer is not good and should be corrected.
I don't believe it is bump steer, because when I hit bumps, the jeep tracks straight down the road. And I can recreate the movement just by flexing the suspension up and down. I understood bump steer as when you hit a bump and the jeep will veer left or right.

Also I don't think that the tie rod and drag link are supposed to be parallel, only the track bar and drag link. If so then I have a huge issue.
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Old 04-21-2016, 08:24 PM
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The guy from RE went out and did what I did and the stock JKUR didn't do what I described at all. The 3.5" lift did it a little, and the 4.5" and above jeeps did it more. But nothing like I described.

Dave
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Old 04-21-2016, 08:46 PM
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Youtube links for those who can't get to google drive


https://youtu.be/uSUwidieMPA

https://youtu.be/zopP6RX5rM4

https://youtu.be/LeOMZ0ydBgo
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Old 04-21-2016, 09:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drveede76 View Post
Ok WF, I need some help.

So I installed a RE 3.5" Sport Lift on my 2016 JKU Rubicon about 2000 miles ago. I have this strange issue when I drive down the road and hit a bump (one or both tires), the steering wheel flutters from the left to right and back to center really quick. Also when the suspension compresses and decompresses as I hit dips in the road it also does this.

Braking and acceleration cause it (Causes front suspension to compress and decompress)

If I push up and down on the front bumper, it does the same thing only slower. I believe this eliminates quite a bit form the equation as a cause.

Also if I tip the jeep from left and right it does the same thing.

The drag link and track bar are almost identical angles.

Nothing is loose or worn out as it is a new jeep, and the only place I see anything moving when the front bumper is pushed up and down is the steering gear.

I have already started working with RE and they seem puzzled too.

The track bar relocation bracket on the front axle and the high steer kit are pretty standard throughout the industry so this is a straight forward geometry set up I think.

One additional note, when the steering wheel does this, the jeep doesn't pull left or right and tracks pretty straight.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You
Dave

Pushing up and down on the bumper
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9...0djQ3FiaE0ybjQ

Pushing side to side
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9...Gp1WE9rZ0s5NHM

Driving down the road.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9...m5RLVVwalRDV3M
Push the jeep up and down, watch the adjuster sleeve on the drag link for any movement of the threaded ends.
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Old 04-21-2016, 10:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sined240 View Post
The parallel angles on the steering geometry for 3.5" lift kits or higher are for the draglink and tierod, not draglink and track bar...

What your describing is called bumpsteer and in subtle ways, it is normal for a front solid axle setup, although too much bumpsteer is not good and should be corrected.
It's the drag link and the TB. I agree that it's just bumpsteer. OP...I think what sined420 is saying is that it's just NORMAL bumpsteer. I agree because you said the vehicle is tracking normally.
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Old 04-21-2016, 11:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
You need steering correction
He has a standard drag link flip and track bar relocation with that kit...
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- Mopar 2" Frankenlift - Teraflex Falcon Shocks - RE TB/Brackets - JKS mount/Bilstein stabilizer -
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bumper - Yukon Gears - G2 Diff Covers - Pro Comp 8186 - Milestar Patagonia 35's - Teraflex BRK
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Old 04-22-2016, 06:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvn4life1972 View Post
It's the drag link and the TB. I agree that it's just bumpsteer. OP...I think what sined420 is saying is that it's just NORMAL bumpsteer. I agree because you said the vehicle is tracking normally.
That's why I still hang around, to learn more.
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Mods: JKS JSpec 3.5 Lift/Fox 2.0, TF Alpine Frt LCA, JKS Frt Track Bar, JKS Quick Discos, SuperLift Rr Track Bar, Teraflex HD SS, Grade 8 Hdware, Griffin, Teraflex HD Hinged Carrier, Peterson/Morimoto XB LEDs, RR Evap Skid, 4.56 Gears, Adams Front DS, Spicer HD Diff Covers, Crown BBK, Synergy Rear Shock Relocation
KMC XD301 Turbine with 315/70-17 MasterCraft Courser MXT
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Old 01-28-2017, 11:11 PM
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So its been a while since I last posted about this but was hoping I could help someone else with some late developments.

The RE 3.5 Sport kit has from and rear track bar relocation kits that install on the axle side. This is the preferred way to do this as it raises the roll center for better handling.

The problem is this...the drag link flip, raises the drag link from the bottom of the steering knuckle to the top, and my closest measurement is ~3 inches higher.

The RE front track bar relocation bracket only raises the axle end of the track bar ~ 2inches. This creates a slight mismatch in the geometry that is amplified through the steering wheel. As you drive on the highway and the road dips and crests the steering wheel will turn one way then the other, and return to center. Expansion joints are the worst. I believe this is referred to as bump steer. It was pretty scary at 75-80mph.

Whats worse, is the rear track bar relocation bracket raises the rear track bar ~4 inches on the axle side, causing a roll center mismatch. I could feel this on slower tight turns in the neighborhood. Even my wife would ask me if something was loose because of how the jeep would almost shimmy.

On a hunch, I did some research and purchased a Synergy front track bar relo bracket kit, that would raise the track bar the same 3 inches as the drag link flip.........bump steer completely eliminated!

So it appears it is a design problem with the RE track bar bracket. RE was no help at all, and after almost a year of trying to get them to help me, I gave up. The first time I called and sent all kinds of videos and pictures, and they guy wouldn't respond at all after a while. Not impressed at all. I called Quadratec and they sent me to RE. And pulling the whole lift off is not an option as I did it myself and don't have the time these days to do another lift like AEV dual sport.

Hope this helps. Glad I figured it out, just a little frustrated as the RE 3.5 Sport lift claims they eliminate bump steer, well not in my case.

Dave
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Old 01-29-2017, 08:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drveede76 View Post
So its been a while since I last posted about this but was hoping I could help someone else with some late developments. The RE 3.5 Sport kit has from and rear track bar relocation kits that install on the axle side. This is the preferred way to do this as it raises the roll center for better handling. The problem is this...the drag link flip, raises the drag link from the bottom of the steering knuckle to the top, and my closest measurement is ~3 inches higher. The RE front track bar relocation bracket only raises the axle end of the track bar ~ 2inches. This creates a slight mismatch in the geometry that is amplified through the steering wheel. As you drive on the highway and the road dips and crests the steering wheel will turn one way then the other, and return to center. Expansion joints are the worst. I believe this is referred to as bump steer. It was pretty scary at 75-80mph. Whats worse, is the rear track bar relocation bracket raises the rear track bar ~4 inches on the axle side, causing a roll center mismatch. I could feel this on slower tight turns in the neighborhood. Even my wife would ask me if something was loose because of how the jeep would almost shimmy. On a hunch, I did some research and purchased a Synergy front track bar relo bracket kit, that would raise the track bar the same 3 inches as the drag link flip.........bump steer completely eliminated! So it appears it is a design problem with the RE track bar bracket. RE was no help at all, and after almost a year of trying to get them to help me, I gave up. The first time I called and sent all kinds of videos and pictures, and they guy wouldn't respond at all after a while. Not impressed at all. I called Quadratec and they sent me to RE. And pulling the whole lift off is not an option as I did it myself and don't have the time these days to do another lift like AEV dual sport. Hope this helps. Glad I figured it out, just a little frustrated as the RE 3.5 Sport lift claims they eliminate bump steer, well not in my case. Dave

Picture of said bracket?
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Old 01-29-2017, 09:33 AM   #13
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Also, roll center correction in the rear has VERY limited effect on the front... I run 4" correction on the rear with a 2.5 lift and no correction on the front and I am flat and tight in the corners.
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- Mopar 2" Frankenlift - Teraflex Falcon Shocks - RE TB/Brackets - JKS mount/Bilstein stabilizer -
Rugged Ridge XHD
bumper - Yukon Gears - G2 Diff Covers - Pro Comp 8186 - Milestar Patagonia 35's - Teraflex BRK
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Old 01-29-2017, 09:36 PM
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Pictures of RE bracket on bench and Synergy on the jeep itself.

I have to say that all of the issues with pulling left on the highway and steering wheel deflect on bumps and dips at 75 mph are not just reduced, they are completely gone.

Dave
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Old 01-29-2017, 10:36 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by drveede76 View Post
Pictures of RE bracket on bench and Synergy on the jeep itself. I have to say that all of the issues with pulling left on the highway and steering wheel deflect on bumps and dips at 75 mph are not just reduced, they are completely gone. Dave
Wow thats a huge Fail .. RE should know better.
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Old 01-30-2017, 08:24 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drveede76 View Post
Pictures of RE bracket on bench and Synergy on the jeep itself.

I have to say that all of the issues with pulling left on the highway and steering wheel deflect on bumps and dips at 75 mph are not just reduced, they are completely gone.

Dave
I am glad your mod is working, that RE bracket is not a great piece to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Wow thats a huge Fail .. RE should know better.
What they should know, is to test their gear... Is Dave's Jeep the only one to experience this issue with this lift kit?
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Rugged Ridge XHD
bumper - Yukon Gears - G2 Diff Covers - Pro Comp 8186 - Milestar Patagonia 35's - Teraflex BRK
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Old 01-30-2017, 08:32 AM   #17
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I had same issue with that bracket. Went to synergy bracket, problem solved.

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