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Old 01-05-2020, 01:20 PM
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Rear Driveshaft Replacement

2013 Rubicon 2 door with 2.5" lift stock CAs and 35s. Looking for rear driveshaft recommendations and why. Greaseable or solid? CV? Considering adjustable CAs in the future to move the axle back 3/4".

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Old 01-05-2020, 01:33 PM   #2
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Is your rear failing?

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Old 01-05-2020, 01:51 PM
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Is your rear failing?
The pinion seal has a decent leak and the bearing has a bit of play. The slip yoke also has play in it also. Not an emergency, but want to fix it before it becomes one and takes the gears out with it.
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Old 01-06-2020, 03:16 PM   #4
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I have an OEM sitting in my garage no charge. How close are you to Monroe, NC? shoot me PM. (that won't fix your pinion seal though, and does your pinion bearing have play? Make sure the pinion nut is tight)


sorry, I have bad comprehension, I have a shaft for a 4 door, not 2 door. But check and repair the pinion yoke if needed before damage occurs.
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Old 01-06-2020, 07:33 PM   #5
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If you are going with an aftermarket driveshaft with out an rzeppa joint you will need at least upper control arms. A double cardan or as also called a CV shaft is required. The angles do not allow for a standard single ujoint per side shaft. Solid vs greasable comes down to the conditions you wheel in. If mud is your thing. Go greasable as you will want to be able to purge. Otherwise solid (sealed) is the way to go. Greasing them is a real pain. For your application I suggest 1310. I would also eliminate the stock flanges for yokes.
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Old 01-06-2020, 09:28 PM   #6
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Solid u-joints last about 3-4X as long as the greasable ones, according to Dana's own lab tests. Go solid cross non-greasable. Always. The SPL joints destroy the 10 series joints in fatigue testing, every time. The actual data is like around 250k fatigue cycles for breakage with the 10 series vs. over a million on the SPL and then they stopped the test because the SPL just didnt break. The SPL is the non greasable one with the solid cross. I do driveline for a living FYI.

I know some guys just live to grease their stuff but this is one case where it's self-defeating.

Again this info. applies to Spicer joints, anything else and all bets are off.
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Old 01-07-2020, 01:57 AM
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I hate greasing lol. This Adams should fit the bill then?
https://www.adamsdriveshaftoffroad.c...e-duty-series/
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Old 01-07-2020, 10:32 AM   #8
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Yeah, should work. But I would suggest shopping around. There are several big names in the drive shaft game and look for a good deal. Try posting in the vendor quote thread and just list the specs without a brand and see what the reps offer up. Finally check to see if you have a driveline shop in your area. They might be even cheaper as there is no shipping cost factored in.
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Old 01-07-2020, 11:23 AM   #9
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Rear Driveshaft Replacement

There are several names popular on the forum, Adams, Tom Woods, and JE Reel. I got mine through a local shop that has a relationship with Powertrain Industries in Garden Grove, CA. They are a much bigger shop than the Jeep specific ones I mentioned. They are great driveshafts and no issues from the start.
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Old 01-07-2020, 04:56 PM   #10
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2013 Rubicon 2 door with 2.5" lift stock CAs and 35s. Looking for rear driveshaft recommendations and why. Greaseable or solid? CV? Considering adjustable CAs in the future to move the axle back 3/4".
Go to Oliver's Driveline in Winston Salem. They have 1310 driveshafts with Spicer double cardans and solid Spicer universals for under $400. Lifetime warranty on the DS except for the u joints and double cardan, those have a 1 year warranty and Olivers will stand behind them if you are out by a few months. If eliminating the factory flange, measure the length between the 2 yokes and give them that measurement. They will make sure you get the right length driveshaft.

They will also do 1350's if you want but my philosophy is let the u joint be the fuse unless you have a D60 axle. I can change out a 1310 in about an hour all told and I'm back on the road.
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Old 01-07-2020, 06:05 PM
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Thanks for the replies. I sent Oliver's Driveline an email to quote.
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Old 01-07-2020, 06:11 PM   #12
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I hate greasing lol. This Adams should fit the bill then?
https://www.adamsdriveshaftoffroad.c...e-duty-series/
Yes, I run an Adams myself for years now. It's been pretty good.

Denny's would be ideal but he is usually a little backed up. In fact, I am about to go meet him for some dinner. I'll ask what his lead times are like right now. Knowing what I know now, I would have gone with his on my own Jeep. His attention to detail is second to none, as is his customer service.
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Old 01-07-2020, 10:28 PM   #13
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Yep 3-4 weeks out as I guessed. There is, however, a reason for that.
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Old 01-07-2020, 10:43 PM   #14
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He needs to hire more people and buy equipment but doesn’t know how to expand his business?
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:28 AM   #15
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He needs to hire more people and buy equipment but doesn’t know how to expand his business?
He has been in business forever and at 65 years old or so, I don't think he cares to move to a new facility, etc. He's pretty happy to just go along like he is. He does grow every year but only so much. It's also very hard to find good help in the DS business.
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:46 AM   #16
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Rear Driveshaft Replacement

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He has been in business forever and at 65 years old or so, I don't think he cares to move to a new facility, etc. He's pretty happy to just go along like he is. He does grow every year but only so much. It's also very hard to find good help in the DS business.
Understood, he’s happy where he’s at. I’m very familiar with the boutique aspect and have a few I also do business with. I have a belt maker that takes forever, 9 months to get a belt to me. But, it’s not like I don’t have other belts to wear. If the guy dies, there be no more belts. With a DS I really need a faster turnaround and a pro shop. There are plenty of good sources, high quality, with very high capacity.
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Old 01-08-2020, 04:04 PM   #17
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Understood, he’s happy where he’s at. I’m very familiar with the boutique aspect and have a few I also do business with. I have a belt maker that takes forever, 9 months to get a belt to me. But, it’s not like I don’t have other belts to wear. If the guy dies, there be no more belts. With a DS I really need a faster turnaround and a pro shop. There are plenty of good sources, high quality, with very high capacity.
There's no question it's a pro shop...he actually has some secret equipment no one else has. He won't even let me, or anyone else, see it.

The turnaround is slow though. I could see cases where it would be ok, like replacing a stock front shaft that still works (or is yanked for a month), or if you were building a hot rod or racecar that you were still finishing. Otherwise yeah, quickness is usually big.
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Old 01-14-2020, 06:23 PM   #18
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Hi I am looking at that same Adams drive shaft. Looks easy to install but I was wondering if I would have to set the angle on it? I would be replacing the original rear drive shaft on 2010 Wrangler 2 door with 2" (I think) lift and 35" tires.
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Old 01-15-2020, 02:34 PM   #19
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Hi I am looking at that same Adams drive shaft. Looks easy to install but I was wondering if I would have to set the angle on it? I would be replacing the original rear drive shaft on 2010 Wrangler 2 door with 2" (I think) lift and 35" tires.
Adams driveshafts are great. get the solid ujoints. yes, you will need rear upper control arms to set the proper pinion angle.

Clayton Offroad Overland+ are a fantastic deal. I'm running their front lowers and rear lowers. They've taken a beating. I don't think there is a better priced set of arms right now.

Core 4x4 would also be on my list.
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Old 01-16-2020, 10:15 AM   #20
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So I'm confused. The Jeep is already lifted and has the stock drive shaft and same tires. What is a rear upper control arm and wouldn't the Jeep already have one if it has been lifted? How come the Adams people didn't tell me I would have to adjust the angle? I even asked! Every video I have seen regarding installing a DS show simple install and only need to check angle if you just added a lift and big tires?
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Old 01-16-2020, 10:27 AM   #21
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So I'm confused. The Jeep is already lifted and has the stock drive shaft and same tires. What is a rear upper control arm and wouldn't the Jeep already have one if it has been lifted? How come the Adams people didn't tell me I would have to adjust the angle? I even asked! Every video I have seen regarding installing a DS show simple install and only need to check angle if you just added a lift and big tires?
yes, your Jeep already has upper control arms. but whether they are adjustable or not is a different story. depends on the lift. most cheap lifts do not include rear adjustable control arms. often they are not needed especially at that short of lift especially running the stock drive shaft. an aftermarket drive shaft like Adams is a double cardan versus the stock rzeppa. you need to set the pinion angle. now at 2 inches of lift. you might not need to do anything. but, if you have driveline vibrations after install, it's likely due to the pinion angle in relation to the transfer case.

i suggest searching youtube for videos on setting rear pinion angle. it will help you understand what you are doing and why.
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Old 01-16-2020, 10:34 AM   #22
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So I'm confused. The Jeep is already lifted and has the stock drive shaft and same tires. What is a rear upper control arm and wouldn't the Jeep already have one if it has been lifted? How come the Adams people didn't tell me I would have to adjust the angle? I even asked! Every video I have seen regarding installing a DS show simple install and only need to check angle if you just added a lift and big tires?
Most lifts do not include adjustable rear control arms. They use the stock rear control arms. But if yours did you include adjustable upper rear control arms you would not need them again.
Any double carden drive shaft, front or rear, is going to be more sensitive about pinion angle. If the pinion is not properly pointing at the output on the transfer case it can put the single u joint on the new drive shaft at too much of an angle. And if that happens you can get some annoying, even nasty, vibrations. In that case you would need to adjust your pinion angle to resolve the vibration issue.
The maker of the drive shaft doesn't know what your pinion angle is, so they really can't say if you need any adjustable control arms or not. Many drive shaft suppliers will give you specs on pinion angle. But whether or not your pinion angle is correct or not depends on a number of aspects.
Here is a web page from Adams about pinion angle.
https://www.adamsdriveshaftoffroad.com/angle-pictures/
And here is some info from Woods via Quadratec
https://www.quadratec.com/jeep_knowl.../article-3.htm
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Old 01-16-2020, 10:52 AM   #23
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Thanks for the info! I'm canceling the order since monkeying with and adding control arms and adjusting wasn't mentioned and looks too complicated. Can't even get an honest answer from vendors selling a $500 product.
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Old 01-16-2020, 11:01 AM   #24
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thanks for the info! I'm canceling the order since monkeying with and adding control arms and adjusting wasn't mentioned and looks too complicated. Can't even get an honest answer from vendors selling a $500 product.
lmao
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Old 01-16-2020, 06:47 PM
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So I'm confused. The Jeep is already lifted and has the stock drive shaft and same tires. What is a rear upper control arm and wouldn't the Jeep already have one if it has been lifted? How come the Adams people didn't tell me I would have to adjust the angle? I even asked! Every video I have seen regarding installing a DS show simple install and only need to check angle if you just added a lift and big tires?
I went with the "Most popular lift" thread here on WF. It did not include control arms, however I have wheeled 4 years now with out an issue. At 80k miles, I don't know if the pinion angle is the issue, or new job requiring 75mph commute, or a marginal quality gear swap, or just time did the pinion bearings in. In any case with the new drive shaft, I am adding adjustable upper control arms for two reasons. 1. to improve the driveline geometry. 2. I am planning on going from 35s to 37s with in a year and this will move the axle back a bit. The current driveshaft may be OK, but it has some play in it. Being as I have to get the pinion bearings done, I don't want to risk it ruining the new bearings.
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Old 01-16-2020, 07:14 PM   #26
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Rear Driveshaft Replacement

Not having the pinion operating angle near zero on a DC DS can cause t-case issues over time. - At least this is what a reliable source has told me.
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Old 01-16-2020, 08:11 PM   #27
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yes, your Jeep already has upper control arms. but whether they are adjustable or not is a different story. depends on the lift. most cheap lifts do not include rear adjustable control arms. often they are not needed especially at that short of lift especially running the stock drive shaft. an aftermarket drive shaft like Adams is a double cardan versus the stock rzeppa. you need to set the pinion angle. now at 2 inches of lift. you might not need to do anything. but, if you have driveline vibrations after install, it's likely due to the pinion angle in relation to the transfer case.

i suggest searching youtube for videos on setting rear pinion angle. it will help you understand what you are doing and why.
So I watched several videos on the topic and understand a little more. I did some more testing and took the Jeep in to re-check the balance on the tire. I can get the rumble to come backl every time starting at 38 MPH - 41 MPH. If I stay exactly at 38 accelerating, it will keep rumbling, like when you fall asleep on the highway and hit those bumps they put there to wake you. The steering wheel stays solid! I took it to another Jeep dealer and he said without a detail look into the transmission, it sounds like the torque converter. They want $2500 to replace and he said they usually find more problems so they transmission would probably need to be rebuilt. He walked away for a bit and got on his cell phone and I heard him tell his wife to order that new washer and dryer and fridge.

So I'm gonna keep watching the threads for others with similar problems but I'm not spend that kind of money on it when I can just avoid staying in the 37-41 MPH range. At this point, I'd piss on a spark plug if I thought it would help.
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Old 01-17-2020, 07:07 AM   #28
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Speed related vibrations like that are usually balance issues, often tire / wheel balance issues. They can also be brake related, as in brakes warped or out of balance. But that is not common. You can also have balance issues with the drive shafts, in the case of aftermarket drive shafts the issues can be caused by poor pinion to drive shaft angle. An easy way to take the drive shaft out of the equation is to remove the drive shaft that you suspect, usually front but can be the rear, and drive around to see if the vibration is gone. If you pull the rear drive shaft, obviously you need to use 4H to drive around for the test.
If it isn't being fixed under warranty the last place I would take my Jeep for something like this is a Jeep dealer. If you can't fix it and it isn't under warranty I would find a qualified independent shop and take it there.
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Old 01-17-2020, 08:50 AM   #29
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Speed related vibrations like that are usually balance issues, often tire / wheel balance issues. They can also be brake related, as in brakes warped or out of balance. But that is not common. You can also have balance issues with the drive shafts, in the case of aftermarket drive shafts the issues can be caused by poor pinion to drive shaft angle. An easy way to take the drive shaft out of the equation is to remove the drive shaft that you suspect, usually front but can be the rear, and drive around to see if the vibration is gone. If you pull the rear drive shaft, obviously you need to use 4H to drive around for the test.
If it isn't being fixed under warranty the last place I would take my Jeep for something like this is a Jeep dealer. If you can't fix it and it isn't under warranty I would find a qualified independent shop and take it there.
So I can take the rear ds out and be fine driving with only a front ds in 4wd at speed 35-45 MPH? I just put on new tires a few weeks ago but my son has had the problem for about a year now with the old tires plus I just had tires re-checked and wheels. I will try this because it is easy for me to remove the rear ds. If the vibration goes away, would you say that rules out the torque converter but still leaves the rear diff and associated pieces?
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:05 AM   #30
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So I can take the rear ds out and be fine driving with only a front ds in 4wd at speed 35-45 MPH? I just put on new tires a few weeks ago but my son has had the problem for about a year now with the old tires plus I just had tires re-checked and wheels. I will try this because it is easy for me to remove the rear ds. If the vibration goes away, would you say that rules out the torque converter but still leaves the rear diff and associated pieces?
Yes, you can do that. It would not rule out the torque converter unless the vibration went away running like that. If running like that makes the vibration go away that typically means it was the drive shaft causing the vibration. Not the diff or axle shafts. If it still vibrates, it still could be any of the other components. It just means it isn't the drive shaft.
The front drive shaft, if aftermarket especially, is also a possible source of drive line vibration. It is always spinning, even when you are in 2H.

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