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Old 03-19-2015, 07:47 PM
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Road force balanced 35 km2 $110 gone

Well been having major issues balancing this expensive setup.

(5) Method race nv/ 35x12.5 km2

Spin balanced 3x, Road force balanced and still harmonic vibration/shimmy every three seconds between 60/65 mph. Seems to resonate through the seats,floorboard, center console. Steering will has very minimal vibration could be just the treads.

Tried moving the rears to the front and still there. Tried throwing it in neutral at 65, still happens. Road force numbers were all in range of normalcy. Only thing I have not had done is break the two with the 8+ oz of weight and rotate them 180 degrees. I have re-torqued the entire suspension, checked balljoints,bushings,driveshaft for wear or missing weights. My driveline angle should be good as I just have a 1 1/2 plk and flat fenders.

When I put the stock rubi tires on there is no problems or atleast so minimal I cannot tell. Thinking maybe their new so put some miles on them break them in. Went for a 120 mile drive. Now it feels as if it starts earlier at 58 mph. I'm too the point of just selling the damn things and stay with the boring stocks and a nasty wheel gap.

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Old 03-19-2015, 07:56 PM   #2
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If you have gone through your entire suspension and that many attempts at balancing the wheels and tires, my only guess is that you have a bad wheel or tire somewhere. Although, I think they would have caught it while balancing them. Just curious, have you removed the retainer clips for the rotors yet?

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Old 03-19-2015, 08:15 PM   #3
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Tires can be out of round. It happens from time to time. Why don't you return them? I had a set of the exact same as you (size and tire) and each of them only took between 1.5-3.0 ounces to balance. They rode perfectly. I've had many other 35s and some wouldn't balance no matter what. They were out of round and returned.
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Old 03-19-2015, 08:21 PM
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I did remove the retainer clips off the studs. I bought the setup from dtd so not sure how to return or exchange or how that process even works.

Let me run this by you guys. Just now I was under the jeep and messing with the front driveshaft I felt some play. I know you can turn it by hand a quarter inch but this was play side to side. Moving back towards where the shaft reaches the harmonic balancer ( gold round ring looking thing) going into my transfer case there is a bit of looseness. Maybe like a 1/32 but I can feel and hear it clunk when applying lateral force. Went to the rear shaft same location and absolutely no play or side to side clunking going into transfer case by balancer. Could this be the issue? Regardless of the 8+ oz on two wheels? Thanks for your time.
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Old 03-19-2015, 08:29 PM   #6
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I did remove the retainer clips off the studs. I bought the setup from dtd so not sure how to return or exchange or how that process even works.

Let me run this by you guys. Just now I was under the jeep and messing with the front driveshaft I felt some play. I know you can turn it by hand a quarter inch but this was play side to side. Moving back towards where the shaft reaches the harmonic balancer ( gold round ring looking thing) going into my transfer case there is a bit of looseness. Maybe like a 1/32 but I can feel and hear it clunk when applying lateral force. Went to the rear shaft same location and absolutely no play or side to side clunking going into transfer case by balancer. Could this be the issue? Regardless of the 8+ oz on two wheels? Thanks for your time.
Discount tire is one of the easiest places to return tires especially in your situation. They have a 45 day period after purchase to swap the tires out if your not completely satisfied. Take them back and swamp them all for the same tire again. If you happen to have the same issue with the new ones then just swap those for a different kind at that point. I've returned several sets to DT when I've had the exact same thing happen.
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Old 03-19-2015, 08:52 PM   #7
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If it was driveshaft I think the stockers would have the same feeling. Contact DTD and ask what you should do...
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Old 03-19-2015, 08:54 PM
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We don't have a Discount tire in my area. We have their sister company Americas Tire. Will they do the same if I give them my purchase order?

Bought on Feb 17.. haven't put very many miles on them since my Jeep was in for warranty work twice in two weeks.
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Old 03-19-2015, 08:55 PM
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If it was driveshaft I think the stockers would have the same feeling. Contact DTD and ask what you should do...
I did and he said he's onboard with what ever I want to do. Just trying to eliminate all possible outcomes/problems before exchanging somehow.
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Old 03-19-2015, 08:57 PM
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Can you take a vid, sounds like a driveshaft problem.
Forgive me Kj, I'm still figuring out how to post pictures of my ride...
So damn technology illiterate it's embarrassing.
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Old 03-19-2015, 09:08 PM
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After much more research turns out the slight driveshaft play side to side is somewhat normal/common on the Jks. Another post had a guy crawl under and test 6 driveshafts of bran new jeeps.
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Old 03-19-2015, 09:37 PM   #13
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Had bad u joints on my one ton dodge that gave a vib that was very difficult to diagnose. Happened 2 times, first time I let it go on for a year, couldn't figure it out. Took it to the dealer at the end of my rope. Found it right away as they were shot. They replaced under warranty, happened a couple years later, recognized right away and took it to a shop and they said it wasn't u joints. They tried everything, finally I said just replace the u joints, they were amazed when the vib went away.
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Old 03-19-2015, 09:42 PM   #14
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Had bad u joints on my one ton dodge that gave a vib that was very difficult to diagnose. Happened 2 times, first time I let it go on for a year, couldn't figure it out. Took it to the dealer at the end of my rope. Found it right away as they were shot. They replaced under warranty, happened a couple years later, recognized right away and took it to a shop and they said it wasn't u joints. They tried everything, finally I said just replace the u joints, they were amazed when the vib went away.
lol gotta love it.
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Old 03-19-2015, 10:24 PM   #15
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The wheels with 8 ounces need to be balanced properly or replaced. That is a lot of weight, by this point somebody should have rotated 180 on the wheel like you mentioned. If they will replace them for free, I would do that first for sure though.
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Old 03-19-2015, 10:25 PM   #16
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I had two sets of KM2s, 35 & 37, and could never eliminate the exact issue noted by the OP. Multiple balancing attempts, including road force. Essentially comes down to the tread pattern of the tire, combined with even the slightest out of round or wobble in the wheels. I switched to 37" MTR/Ks and noted an immediate improvement. One of my fellow club members wrestled with the same issue on his CJ, never could cure it and switched to Mickey ATZs
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Old 03-20-2015, 12:06 AM
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I had two sets of KM2s, 35 & 37, and could never eliminate the exact issue noted by the OP. Multiple balancing attempts, including road force. Essentially comes down to the tread pattern of the tire, combined with even the slightest out of round or wobble in the wheels. I switched to 37" MTR/Ks and noted an immediate improvement. One of my fellow club members wrestled with the same issue on his CJ, never could cure it and switched to Mickey ATZs
MTR/Ks are my next of choice. See what the response is tomorrow.
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Old 03-20-2015, 12:12 AM
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Rear correct ?

I have 0 play in both my driveshafts.
The rear is solid no movement at all not even able to turn by hand. It's the front that has the side to side or up and down movement or clunk if you will. I drove over to my brothers who has a 12'jku and crawled under to check his. Same thing.

For what its worth the front shaft ujoint seems to be good with no signs of wear, just the other end going into the transfer case is where I see and feel movement.
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Old 03-20-2015, 02:22 AM   #19
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MTR/Ks are my next of choice. See what the response is tomorrow.
If you are concerned about tire balance MTR/Ks are a poor choice. The asymmetric thread makes them more difficult to balance and keep balanced. The one thing in their favor is that they are on the light side of the average but so are the KM2s.

Maybe what you need is on vehicle tire balancing if you can find a shop that still does it. The system will either balance or it will indicate the source of the unbalance.
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Old 03-20-2015, 09:34 AM
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Ok thanks for that information. Took me a while to find a hunter 9700 for the road force. I haven't heard or seen anything about on vehicle balancing. From what I have heard all the balances are done are at relatively low speeds. My problem doesn't come in till about 58 and very noticeable at 63. I appreciate all the help and insight.
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Old 03-20-2015, 01:25 PM   #21
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If there is still concern of a possible front driveshaft balance, or wear, issue you can confirm or rule that out in about ten minutes. Remove the front driveshaft and go for a drive. If the vibration is still there you know it isn't the front driveshaft. If the vibration is gone, you can stop wasting time trying to re-re-rebalance the tires. Seems like ten minutes that would be well spent.
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Old 03-20-2015, 06:31 PM   #22
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LOL this is one entertaining thread. Tires are crap, well they road forced balanced ok, but they are crap. Dude if tire and rims pass road force then the issue is not tire or wheel related. The 100 pound tire and wheel took half pound of weight is funny too, you think a chunk of rubber and metal weighing that should balance with 2oz of weight? I'm not questioning you have a vibration, just need to look in another direction to correct.
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Old 03-20-2015, 07:14 PM   #23
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If you are concerned about tire balance MTR/Ks are a poor choice. The asymmetric thread makes them more difficult to balance and keep balanced. The one thing in their favor is that they are on the light side of the average but so are the KM2s.

Maybe what you need is on vehicle tire balancing if you can find a shop that still does it. The system will either balance or it will indicate the source of the unbalance.
Name:  mCGXX-MQ8WiIpgBc2PTb6hw hunter balancer.jpg
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^^^This was a very accurate way to balance your tire, wheel and hub all together. I used one of these back in the 50's.

The negative was, every time that you rotated your tires, you also had to re-balance!!!!!!!!!
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Old 03-20-2015, 07:27 PM
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LOL this is one entertaining thread. Tires are crap, well they road forced balanced ok, but they are crap. Dude if tire and rims pass road force then the issue is not tire or wheel related. The 100 pound tire and wheel took half pound of weight is funny too, you think a chunk of rubber and metal weighing that should balance with 2oz of weight? I'm not questioning you have a vibration, just need to look in another direction to correct.
You are of no benefit to this thread. Show yourself to the door guy.
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Old 03-20-2015, 07:32 PM
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If there is still concern of a possible front driveshaft balance, or wear, issue you can confirm or rule that out in about ten minutes. Remove the front driveshaft and go for a drive. If the vibration is still there you know it isn't the front driveshaft. If the vibration is gone, you can stop wasting time trying to re-re-rebalance the tires. Seems like ten minutes that would be well spent.
Taking a quick look at the front driveshaft the north end going into the diff looks easy enough to remove with four bolts, the south end going into the transfer case seems a bit more elaborate with about 10 small black bolts that connect to the balancer then into the transfer case. Looks to be a pita. For me maybe more than 10 min.
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Old 03-20-2015, 08:17 PM   #26
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If you want you can only unhook the axle end of the driveshaft and tie it up out of the way, and then go for a drive to see if the vibration is gone (be sure to stay in two wheel drive). I've done that several times on a prior JK I had that had bad problems with vibration. The 'thrumming' vibration that has a cycle of a few seconds between each vibration peak sounds like a driveshaft vibration. Mine was at least.

People now will come on with statements that say you cant tie one end of the driveshaft up, without disconnecting both ends, because of some theoretical concern about it "blowing up" the transfer case. Yeah, yeah, sure, that is BS though. We're not talking about driving across country, we're talking about a two to three mile drive.
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Old 03-20-2015, 09:21 PM   #27
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^^^This was a very accurate way to balance your tire, wheel and hub all together. I used one of these back in the 50's.

The negative was, every time that you rotated your tires, you also had to re-balance!!!!!!!!!
They were very accurate and solved a lot of problems typical balancing systems could not resolve. I used a similar one back in the late 80s where I use to bust tires amongst other things in an off-road shop but I have only seen one in the last ten years and it was in the shop for a racing team.

As you point out that was the drawback and probably why they lost favor in most commercial shops.
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Old 03-21-2015, 11:43 AM
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If you want you can only unhook the axle end of the driveshaft and tie it up out of the way, and then go for a drive to see if the vibration is gone (be sure to stay in two wheel drive). I've done that several times on a prior JK I had that had bad problems with vibration. The 'thrumming' vibration that has a cycle of a few seconds between each vibration peak sounds like a driveshaft vibration. Mine was at least.

People now will come on with statements that say you cant tie one end of the driveshaft up, without disconnecting both ends, because of some theoretical concern about it "blowing up" the transfer case. Yeah, yeah, sure, that is BS though. We're not talking about driving across country, we're talking about a two to three mile drive.
This seems alot easier. As long as that transfer case doesn't somehow decide to activate that tied up shaft...lol. I'll put danger tape on the 4wd selector. Again I appreciate all the help and advice. Forums are the best avenue for individuals to gain an understanding and helpful insight to problems or solutions that otherwise could be a long drawn out process.
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Old 03-21-2015, 03:53 PM   #29
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The tires weigh about 69 lbs each. Seems like rule of thumb is 1% to 2% of the tire weight is the maximum balancing weight that should be required. 1% of 69 lbs is about 11 ounces, so 8 ounces would not be an unreasonable amount of weight to use as long as the tire ends up being balanced.

With my commuter cars, I have personal experience with having RoadForce balancing done multiple times with vibration remaining, only to have a 'standard' balance solve the problem. I also had a set of new tires that produced a harmonic vibration due to tread design. So, there could still be a tire issue.
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Old 03-21-2015, 03:58 PM   #30
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Try balance beads. I run them in my 35 Mickey Thonpsons
DynaBeads Tire Balancing Beads

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