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Old 07-01-2015, 02:10 PM
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Sterring stablizer or correction bracket?

I've done a lot of research on this forum but I want to ask about my specific issue...

Just recently had rubicon express 2.5 with mono shocks installed and 35 Mickey Thompson tires. About two weeks ago. I've been off roading twice.

There is no "wobble" it's more of a feeling that if I let go of the tire on the highway the wheels will go any direction they want. They don't hold the line. I have to be very aware and correct the direction with little nudges to the steering wheel. Before it would drive straight on its own. It doesn't lean toward one direction so I don't think it's alignment.

The guy at fortec suggested a dual steering stabilizer... He said 2.5 doesn't need correction bracket. But from what I read on this form I need a correction bracket or longer control arms.

Is there a way I can measure the caster?

What do you guys suggest? I'd like to have a comfortable driving experience for long road trips.

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Old 07-01-2015, 02:16 PM   #2
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You can measure caster by taking the Jeep to an alignment shop. Did you mean measure it yourself?

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Old 07-01-2015, 02:20 PM
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No I didn't... Don't know how. But I assume it might be less positive than it was before because the symptoms seem to match up with others in this form who added a bracket and it fixed the problem.
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Old 07-01-2015, 02:26 PM   #5
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Do you know if the cam bolt/alignment washers were installed? The Rubicon Express kit includes alignment washers (that we don't like) for caster correction.

You can use an angle finder app on your smart phone and check the pinion flange to calculate caster. If your pinion is at 0 then you have 6 deg caster, if it's at 1 you have 5 deg and so on.

A 2.5 lift is on the edge of needing caster correction, some need it and some do not (in my experience its about 70% that need it).

You are describing a typical low caster experience. Caster provides the steering with a self centering effect that makes your wheels want to go straight down the road.
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Old 07-01-2015, 02:37 PM
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@Pressurized what would you suggest to correct the caster? I'll go try to measure now...
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Old 07-01-2015, 02:48 PM   #7
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Use an app on your phone or you can buy an angle finder at Harbor Freight for $5. Make sure you measure the angle of the driveway and take that into account as well.

Use the flats on the center section where the tubes go in. A bit easier to get to and get a gauge(or your phone) onto.
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Old 07-01-2015, 02:51 PM
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Is this correct?
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Old 07-01-2015, 02:51 PM
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Drive way slope
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Old 07-01-2015, 02:52 PM   #10
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If the alignment washers were installed, it should be able to be set with those. If they weren't, I would use a set of control arm drop brackets or a set of lower control arms.

I did mine with these control arms:

https://www.wranglerforum.com/f123/te...t-1191361.html

You could also use the AEV control arm brackets...

But, if your washers were installed, that will be the easiest way.

Look on your front axle where the lower control arm connects, do you see a round or square washer with an offset hole, like the one pictured?

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Old 07-01-2015, 02:59 PM
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Looks like they didn't install the bolts
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:03 PM
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It SEEMS like the arms would be easier to install than the brackets. I think I'll go with the arms since I do enjoy off roading.

I'm quite sure where to measure. The feed that discusses measuring shows him measuring the drive shaft?
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:15 PM   #13
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What is your tire pressure? If it's to high, it will do as you describe.
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bamanda2 View Post
Is this correct?
About right. You're probably somewhere around 3°

Brackets/fixed arms/adjustable arms .. Youre choice. If the jeep is primarily DD, brackets are going to cost the less.
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:23 PM
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About right. You're probably somewhere around 3° Brackets/fixed arms/adjustable arms .. Youre choice. If the jeep is primarily DD, brackets are going to cost the less.
What degree should it be?
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:26 PM
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What is your tire pressure? If it's to high, it will do as you describe.
It's 41 psi 😳 what should it be?
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:29 PM
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What is your tire pressure? If it's to high, it will do as you describe.
41 psi. Just checked. What should it be?
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:37 PM   #18
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41 psi. Just checked. What should it be?
Get some sidewalk chalk and do the chalk test to see how much pressure you need.

41 psi sounds a bit high but every tire and size is different.

I have 35/12.5r17's and I run 29psi. It gets pretty bouncy around 34-35psi
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:49 PM   #19
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I have same setup. RE 2.5 coil lift with adj control arms and 35s. Had same feeling as you did. If I hit a hard bump the front tires would shimmy a little too, but they always calmed down right away. Still very unnerving.

Installed dual steering stabilizer and it was a great improvement. Not perfect, but way better. Most issues went away. I'm still waiting to install Synergy ball joints which I hope puts the final nail in the front suspension coffin.

I whole heartedly recommend a dual steering stabilizer. For about $125 you will not be disappointed.
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:53 PM   #20
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I have same setup. RE 2.5 coil lift with adj control arms and 35s. Had same feeling as you did. If I hit a hard bump the front tires would shimmy a little too, but they always calmed down right away. Still very unnerving. Installed dual steering stabilizer and it was a great improvement. Not perfect, but way better. Most issues went away. I'm still waiting to install Synergy ball joints which I hope puts the final nail in the front suspension coffin. I whole heartedly recommend a dual steering stabilizer. For about $125 you will not be disappointed.
I put on an old man emu single stabilizer. And then put on the aev correction brackets which got rid of that shimmy. Talk to the guys at forte, that's who works on my jeep up here in Atlanta, the brackets are $100 and maybe an hour to install. I have a RE 3.5 by the way.
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Old 07-01-2015, 04:37 PM   #21
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Is this correct?
Sorry, been working...

Ok, that's an interesting angle to measure from. I will try to get a picture of how I measure mine when I get home. With the 1.5 on the ground, I assume that's up hill? I think your measurement would be like 1.5, giving you a total of 3 which would be 3deg caster...

If it's down hill, then the 5.1 - 1.5 would be 3.6 and that would be 2.4... That would make more sense.

Both are pretty easy to install and it's good that the washers aren't there, its a better install without them and proper caster correction. At 2.5 I like the arms better as well.

Stabilizers just mask the problem, fix it rather than band-aid it...

Photo to come in a couple hours.
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Old 07-01-2015, 05:10 PM
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That would be great @Pressurized if you could show me where to measure.

Ok went out and did chalk test. Noticed not much chalk gone from inner tread. Took it down to 38 psi. It's definitely better. But I don't think I would like much lower. It's really "mushy." I think I'm using the entire tire now so it will be used evenly at least. I will continue to monitor.

Lowering the psi helped but I still feel like the wheel is lose and I can literally move the wheel a a couple inches each direction back and fourth and the the jeep doesn't even start turning. Will the longer arms help with this?
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Old 07-01-2015, 05:11 PM
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Will I need to hack the jeep up to install the longer arms?
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Old 07-01-2015, 05:20 PM   #25
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Will I need to hack the jeep up to install the longer arms?
No, your standard short arms use the factory mounts.
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Old 07-01-2015, 05:44 PM
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Lol, "hack" sorry I'm using iPhone. I meant to ask will I need to "jack" up the jeep?
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Old 07-01-2015, 06:02 PM
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Would I also need to lower the rear arms?

I was thinking of getting this since I also would like quick release away bar

http://www.jeep4x4center.com/terafle...f-1441066.html
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Old 07-01-2015, 07:37 PM   #28
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Would I also need to lower the rear arms? I was thinking of getting this since I also would like quick release away bar http://www.jeep4x4center.com/terafle...f-1441066.html
That link is for TJ.
No you dont "need" Other than front lowers.
@ 3.5" + rear upper arms would be used for pinion angle.
A single set of rear lower arms will do little alone.
Both uppers and lowers can be used to position the axle back and correct pinion.
Same with the front, uppers and lowers (wheelbase + pinion/caster)
A complete set of all 8 arms is not really needed running a small lift.
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Old 07-01-2015, 08:33 PM   #29
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That link is for TJ.
No you dont "need" Other than front lowers.
@ 3.5" + rear upper arms would be used for pinion angle.
A single set of rear lower arms will do little alone.
Both uppers and lowers can be used to position the axle back and correct pinion.
Same with the front, uppers and lowers (wheelbase + pinion/caster)
A complete set of all 8 arms is not really needed running a small lift.
X10

Here is a post with how I measure my caster: https://www.wranglerforum.com/f202/je...l#post20031929

As Ken pointed out, you can probably get the phone on the flat of the pinion, but I have never felt the need to. I might try it when it's not 120 outside...
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Old 07-01-2015, 09:37 PM   #30
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That would be great @Pressurized if you could show me where to measure. Ok went out and did chalk test. Noticed not much chalk gone from inner tread. Took it down to 38 psi. It's definitely better. But I don't think I would like much lower. It's really "mushy." I think I'm using the entire tire now so it will be used evenly at least. I will continue to monitor. Lowering the psi helped but I still feel like the wheel is lose and I can literally move the wheel a a couple inches each direction back and fourth and the the jeep doesn't even start turning. Will the longer arms help with this?
that's honestly still way to high. The stock km2's are only a max of 37. Large side wall tires will have a slightly mushy feeling in corners just the nature of the beast. As others have stated you should try in the 27-30 psi range. Larger tires require less psi as they have a larger foot print to exert the same pressure on the road with less pressure over all. Also the larger volume of air requires less psi over all to maintain the same lift in the tire so to speak. Geo brackets or longer control arms will improve your touchy handling.

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