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Old 03-25-2019, 07:07 AM
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Upgraded Speakers HELP!

There have been a million threads on the subject of speakers. Searched a bunch and haven't found what I'm looking to get answered. I know its not going to sound like a home theater or a $2,000 system that I've had before.



I just put in 4 Polk DB651s. Dynamat and Polyfilled both soundbar and speaker units up front. Still running the stock head unit. I do not have the Alpine system.



The sound is a little better than the stock speakers as far as being tinny. I have to crank the head unit to power these speakers. The lows dont sound low and some songs sound majorly distorted when listening to metal or something similar.



I've faded the speakers to test each side out. I saw some info about the speaker adapters from Metra needing the pins to be switched out because the speakers are out of phase? I do not believe this to be the problem as all the speakers sound the same when isolated.



Is this just because the stock head unit isn't powerful enough to drive them? I ordered a Pioneer 2300nex last night. is this enough to get far better sound without throwing in an amp or sub? This is the last thing I want to do with the audio for a good while.




Thanks for any help!

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Old 03-25-2019, 07:22 AM   #2
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What's the rated output from the new head unit? I'd guess any aftermarket head/unit would sound better than the factory especially if it's driving nice speakers. Like you said, the factory radio needs to be juiced up to power them well.

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Old 03-25-2019, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by MRBachand View Post
What's the rated output from the new head unit? I'd guess any aftermarket head/unit would sound better than the factory especially if it's driving nice speakers. Like you said, the factory radio needs to be juiced up to power them well.



It's Peak is 50 watts x 4 channels and its RMS is 22 watts x 4 channels


I'm hoping that's all it is.
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:30 AM   #4
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I noticed a big difference with a pioneer 4200 and just the stock speakers. Then I upgraded the speakers and again, an improvement. But of course I finally added and amp and it sounds really good.
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:49 AM   #5
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You’ll get an improvement with the upgraded head unit. But if you really want to show off those speakers, you’ll need to get an amp.
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:22 AM   #6
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Polk DB651 speakers are rated for 6-60watts, stock deck puts out maybe 20watts, any aftermarket deck will do the same 20ish watts, 22 24 25, not really any difference.

You can't fit a decent amp in that space along with everything else you need, AM/FM/CD etc etc etc.
Find a 45 or 50x4 watts amp and it will be night and day at all volume levels.
You won't need to Max out the volume just for it to sound good.
You will need to run wire from the amp to the speakers.
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:31 AM   #7
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Two things... Although confirmation of the impedance of the factory speakers would confirm. The Polk's are 4 ohm speakers and the factory units are 2 ohm. When you double the impedance, that cuts the amplifier power in half. So if you had 20 watts, now you only have 10. It works the same the other way too. If you had 4 ohm speakers and put in 2 ohm speakers, your amp can put out double the power. Obviously, there are still limits that you cannot exceed....

Second, the Polks are 92db sensitivity... 92 isn't bad, but a 3 db increase is roughly the same as doubling the amplifier output. So a speaker at 94 or 95db sensitivity would be a big improvement....

I'd guess that you reduced amp output then increased sensitivity, putting you back close to stock output. You just need more "watts".
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:35 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Pressurized View Post
Two things...
He did say he did not have any Alpine, so bone stock no factory upgrades.
They should be a 4ohm speaker, correct?


But yes feeding a 60watt speaker with 20 isn't going to get the job done.
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Number41 View Post
I noticed a big difference with a pioneer 4200 and just the stock speakers. Then I upgraded the speakers and again, an improvement. But of course I finally added and amp and it sounds really good.

That's what I'm hoping for.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunit35 View Post
You’ll get an improvement with the upgraded head unit. But if you really want to show off those speakers, you’ll need to get an amp.

Hopefully later this summer once I get the lift in lol


Quote:
Originally Posted by screwlose View Post
Polk DB651 speakers are rated for 6-60watts, stock deck puts out maybe 20watts, any aftermarket deck will do the same 20ish watts, 22 24 25, not really any difference.

You can't fit a decent amp in that space along with everything else you need, AM/FM/CD etc etc etc.
Find a 45 or 50x4 watts amp and it will be night and day at all volume levels.
You won't need to Max out the volume just for it to sound good.
You will need to run wire from the amp to the speakers.

Can you recommend any amp that will work decently with them? Something that won't break the bank? Sounds like a more intensive project than what I was hoping for. I've gone down the deep hole of audio before and I can think of a bunch of other stuff I'd rather do to the Jeep lol. Was just hoping for a little bit of improvement with the speakers and head unit. Amp will come later.


Thanks everyone
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:38 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by dun_right View Post
Can you recommend any amp that will work decently with them? Something that won't break the bank? Sounds like a more intensive project than what I was hoping for. I've gone down the deep hole of audio before and I can think of a bunch of other stuff I'd rather do to the Jeep lol. Was just hoping for a little bit of improvement with the speakers and head unit. Amp will come later.

These are hard to beat
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-3FrwrH...RoCATsQAvD_BwE


Right at that 45watt for $150, pretty small so can hide them just about anywhere and really do work good with a good aftermarket deck.
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:41 AM   #11
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Just an fyi I went with a 5 channel amp (pioneer gm-d9605). A few months ago it was only ~$220 but looks like it's harder to get and a newer 9705 model just came out. I think my 9605 is 75 watts per channel.

There are a ton of options so I wouldn't stress it. A good 4 channel 50 watt amp possibly would be ~100 - 150. But if you think you'll ever add a sub, a 5 channel would be a good choice.
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by screwlose View Post
These are hard to beat
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-3FrwrH...RoCATsQAvD_BwE


Right at that 45watt for $150, pretty small so can hide them just about anywhere and really do work good with a good aftermarket deck.



Sweet thanks! Don't they make a bracket from one of the full WPA kits to mount the amps under the steering wheel and behind that panel?


Running new wires? So id have to run all new wires to each speaker? What about crossovers? Is that even an issue with my speakers?
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Number41 View Post
Just an fyi I went with a 5 channel amp (pioneer gm-d9605). A few months ago it was only ~$220 but looks like it's harder to get and a newer 9705 model just came out. I think my 9605 is 75 watts per channel.

There are a ton of options so I wouldn't stress it. A good 4 channel 50 watt amp possibly would be ~100 - 150. But if you think you'll ever add a sub, a 5 channel would be a good choice.



Thanks! That could be wayyyy later on lol. But im a fan of future proofing so good call!
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:48 PM   #14
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This Rockford PBR 400x4D is what I went with. I like that Rockford tests the output of their amps in the QC process. Mine ended up being 132 per channel fronts and 127 channels rears. I have a separate mono bridge sub amp PBR 500x1. These amp push awesome power and are small and easy to find a spot to mount.
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Old 03-26-2019, 05:56 PM   #15
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This has been said many times before .......
If you want it to sound amazing you must gut your system.
1. Aftermarket head unit
2. aftermarket amp
3. Aftermarket speakers
4. Aftermarket sub
Note. Do not run any wiring thru the system. You must run all speakers directly from your head unit to the amp then to the speakers.

The Factory setup is crap and no way can you make that sound good especially with the top down.

Here is what I have and I am blown away how good it sounds.

Alpine WRA I109 - head unit
Alpine PDX v9- amp
J/L Audio 8W1v3-4 Sub. - Will fit directly in stock amp box, holes will not line up but who cares, just drill and mount. This sub is absolutely amazing. My kids have smiles from ear to ear and I can feel the air moving thru my body. Its crazy good.

J/L Audio C2-650 components for the front , tweeters in the original spot
J/L Audio C2-650 coaxial for the sound bar

Its loud, clean , crisp and did I say loud as hell.

I installed everything myself and it was a breeze.

Dont try to make the factory integration with new components . It will give you a headache.
You have to run it from scratch.

hope this helps
If your in the area you are welcome to listen
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Old 03-26-2019, 06:01 PM   #16
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Yes that little powerpac is the bomb
had that when I ran things with the stock setup but it does distort .
Thats why I went to a clean install and bypass the factory setup all together.
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Old 03-26-2019, 08:15 PM   #17
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I put in a Sony Mex-xb100 for a head unit. It actually puts out over 40 watts per channel in 4 ohms and about 70 watts at 2 ohms. Also has a built in crossover so you can send only the highs to the regular speakers. It is running Polk speakers. Sounds great but very little bass. So the system grew to a Rockford P3D4 12” and a Rockford R1200-1D. System sounds amazing now and crystal clear.
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Old 03-27-2019, 08:40 AM   #18
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I was...and still am in a similar situation. Have a stock HU, replaced fronts and sound bar with J/L Audio C2-650. They have an amp running to them. Sound better but need to be turned up to have quality sound. I’m researching subs as I want more. Contemplating a JL stealthbox. It’s $$$ but lose minimal space in the rear of the Jeep. Also looking at a Kicker hideaway. Has anyone purchased either? Looking for feedback.
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Old 03-27-2019, 10:13 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by dun_right View Post
There have been a million threads on the subject of speakers. Searched a bunch and haven't found what I'm looking to get answered. I know its not going to sound like a home theater or a $2,000 system that I've had before.



I just put in 4 Polk DB651s. Dynamat and Polyfilled both soundbar and speaker units up front. Still running the stock head unit. I do not have the Alpine system.



The sound is a little better than the stock speakers as far as being tinny. I have to crank the head unit to power these speakers. The lows dont sound low and some songs sound majorly distorted when listening to metal or something similar.



I've faded the speakers to test each side out. I saw some info about the speaker adapters from Metra needing the pins to be switched out because the speakers are out of phase? I do not believe this to be the problem as all the speakers sound the same when isolated.



Is this just because the stock head unit isn't powerful enough to drive them? I ordered a Pioneer 2300nex last night. is this enough to get far better sound without throwing in an amp or sub? This is the last thing I want to do with the audio for a good while.




Thanks for any help!
.

I installed the Kenwood marine 6.5” speakers into my sound bar and lost all lows. I added a small 10” sub and amp and tapped Into the front speakers instead of the rear and it gives a great sound for low cost and I still have my factory head unit. Easy install and cost effective. Crutchfield.com is a GREAT place to get info and equipment.
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Old 03-27-2019, 10:22 AM   #20
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What is the rating (watts) of your HU and the speakers (usually given per pair) you usually want your speakers to be as close to the HU as possible (per channel)

So if your HU on a single channel maxes out at 10w you would want your speaker (on that single channel) to either as close to 10w or slightly above
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Old 03-27-2019, 10:38 AM   #21
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I think i posted a long time ago not sure. You def need to gut it all and start fresh for quality sound. I did Jl mm100, m650 in front and added Jl tweeters on dash. M770 in the sound bar. 2 M8ib5 in the rear floor where jack goes. All ran off MHD900/5. The subs are being replaced by the 13TW5v2-4 as soon as i build the box and hang it on the tail gate.
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Old 03-27-2019, 12:01 PM   #22
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Did you remove the small (3.5"?) speakers from the system? I would try that first.
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Old 03-27-2019, 01:23 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by JNDBLIT View Post
I was...and still am in a similar situation. Have a stock HU, replaced fronts and sound bar with J/L Audio C2-650. They have an amp running to them. Sound better but need to be turned up to have quality sound. I’m researching subs as I want more. Contemplating a JL stealthbox. It’s $$$ but lose minimal space in the rear of the Jeep. Also looking at a Kicker hideaway. Has anyone purchased either? Looking for feedback.
I installed the Hideaway in my JK. It is awesome. I have it installed underneath the driver's side seat.

If you're looking for loud bass you won't get it from the hideaway. It hits plenty hard enough for rock or country music. Rap music bass is too low and it doesn't handle it very well. I didn't care to have hard hitting bass and wanted something that would fit under my seat.
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Old 03-27-2019, 02:49 PM   #24
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FYI, I have a Pioneer 2300 with those Polk speakers. The sound will be good. I want to add an amp later, but so far for my listening needs, I'm pretty good without the Amp. I'm sure you will be much better once the Pioneer is in.
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Old 03-27-2019, 04:54 PM   #25
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I skipped most of the thread, so this might have been mentioned.



The stock speakers are 2ohms, but the Polks and most others are 4ohms. That means less current from the stock head unit to the speakers & correspondingly less power. Which is why you have to crank the volume higher on the head unit for the sound level same output. And why an aftermarket amp or head unit fixes that particular issue, as most are designed for 4ohm loads.
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Old 03-27-2019, 05:28 PM   #26
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The stock speaks in the base system are 4 ohm.
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Teddyk1 View Post
This has been said many times before .......
If you want it to sound amazing you must gut your system.
1. Aftermarket head unit
2. aftermarket amp
3. Aftermarket speakers
4. Aftermarket sub
Note. Do not run any wiring thru the system. You must run all speakers directly from your head unit to the amp then to the speakers.

The Factory setup is crap and no way can you make that sound good especially with the top down.

Here is what I have and I am blown away how good it sounds.


Alpine WRA I109 - head unit

Alpine PDX v9- amp
J/L Audio 8W1v3-4 Sub. - Will fit directly in stock amp box, holes will not line up but who cares, just drill and mount. This sub is absolutely amazing. My kids have smiles from ear to ear and I can feel the air moving thru my body. Its crazy good.

J/L Audio C2-650 components for the front , tweeters in the original spot
J/L Audio C2-650 coaxial for the sound bar

Its loud, clean , crisp and did I say loud as hell.

I installed everything myself and it was a breeze.

Dont try to make the factory integration with new components . It will give you a headache.
You have to run it from scratch.

hope this helps
If your in the area you are welcome to listen

This is legit. I really wanna see how much of a difference the new head unit will make. I'm hoping itll satisfy my needs while putting money elsewhere in her. then put more into the amp and a sub. I dont have the alpine system so I'm trying to put things in discreet areas. The waterproof sub and enclosure from alpine that goes under the passenger seat would more than likely suffice.





As well as maybe a smaller 5 channel amp for cheaper that can be mounted behind the glove box or something.


Thanks for your advice!
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by bdog22 View Post
FYI, I have a Pioneer 2300 with those Polk speakers. The sound will be good. I want to add an amp later, but so far for my listening needs, I'm pretty good without the Amp. I'm sure you will be much better once the Pioneer is in.



this is what im trying to do and am hopeful for. I need to divert my money into the lift and such lol. Amp and sub will come later unless its a killer deal.



Thanks!
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Rauland04 View Post
Did you remove the small (3.5"?) speakers from the system? I would try that first.

Is this something that actually works well with everything else? Both on the dash and in the soundbar?
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:32 AM   #30
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The stock system has small 4 ohm speakers in parallel with the regular 4 ohm speakers. They just rob power from the better speakers.

You can disconnect them completely or, for the front, add bass blockers. Try fading to a back corner and disconnecting that one and see if you like it better.

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