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Old 09-08-2014, 11:11 PM
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Wrecked JK, Frame Replacement

I was recently rear ended while stopped at a stop light. I was sandwiched between the car behind and the car in front of me. Luckily no one was seriously hurt. Damage didn't look bad at first, but my doors were popping open and they didn't seem to shut right. Got it to the garage and they said my frame is FUBAR. They want to replace the entire frame. Insurance is paying for it so cost is not an issue, but am I losing all resale value? My adjuster says my Jeep is worth 23K and will still be worth that with the new frame. I am skeptical. I said no practical person would ever pay that much for a vehicle with frame damage. Should I lawyer up and try to force them to total my Jeep? What kind of issues can I expect in the future from a frame replacement?

2013 JK, 2 door, 20k miles

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Old 09-09-2014, 04:58 AM   #2
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Carfax is what's going to kill you in resale.

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Old 09-09-2014, 05:34 AM   #3
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Carfax is what's going to kill you in resale.
Agree. I was rear ended in my 2009 Saturn. Severe damage to my Saturn which was fixed and was like new after repairs. But Carfax killed the value on trade and/or private sell. Check with your insurance on diminished value. I have it on my policy and i have to make another claim to get the diminished value reimbursed. Pain to do, but worth it. WRT to the frame repairs, today with the way frames are designed to absorb energy in a crash, they can fix and replace most frames to factory specs. So the repair can be safe and as good as new with the right shop. But diminished value is very real if you ever go to sell or trade.
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Old 09-09-2014, 06:00 AM   #4
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I recently bought a 2011 jk, 2 door, 20k miles that was in an accident. The guy swapped the frame and when I got it checked out they said it was one of the cleanest looking jeeps they have seen in a while, best of all I only paid 16500 for it because the frame swap. Still haven't had issues with it. But It did kill the resale for the guy.
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Old 09-09-2014, 10:02 AM   #5
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I would fight tooth and nail to have it totaled.
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Old 09-09-2014, 11:30 AM   #6
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How on earth is it not totaled right off the bat? Jeez.
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Old 09-09-2014, 11:31 AM   #7
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I was recently rear ended while stopped at a stop light. I was sandwiched between the car behind and the car in front of me. Luckily no one was seriously hurt. Damage didn't look bad at first, but my doors were popping open and they didn't seem to shut right. Got it to the garage and they said my frame is FUBAR. They want to replace the entire frame. Insurance is paying for it so cost is not an issue, but am I losing all resale value? My adjuster says my Jeep is worth 23K and will still be worth that with the new frame. I am skeptical. I said no practical person would ever pay that much for a vehicle with frame damage. Should I lawyer up and try to force them to total my Jeep? What kind of issues can I expect in the future from a frame replacement?

2013 JK, 2 door, 20k miles
Yeah resale is screwed....Remember that you are most likely working with the adjuster for the "other" guy if he was cited, he will tell you it will be worth the same after it's fixed, and I call BS. Hold out and ask for damages toward "reduced resale value" which if it were me I would think it be the same as a salvaged titled vehicle.
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Old 09-09-2014, 01:16 PM   #8
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Diminution in value - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Diminution in value is a legal term of art used when calculating damages in a legal dispute, and describes a measure of value lost due to a circumstance or set of circumstances that caused the loss. Specifically, it measures the value of something before and after the causative act or omission creating the lost value in order to calculate compensatory damages.[1]

In legal damages theories, diminution in value is often calculated for compensatory special damages when a loss is monetarily quantifiable, and for restitution or disgorgement damages when the loss has unfairly enriched a wrongdoer.[1]
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Old 09-09-2014, 01:53 PM
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I recently bought a 2011 jk, 2 door, 20k miles that was in an accident. The guy swapped the frame and when I got it checked out they said it was one of the cleanest looking jeeps they have seen in a while, best of all I only paid 16500 for it because the frame swap. Still haven't had issues with it. But It did kill the resale for the guy.

Thanks for the info. That gives me a ballpark idea what it's worth with the new frame.
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:00 PM
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Yeah resale is screwed....Remember that you are most likely working with the adjuster for the "other" guy if he was cited, he will tell you it will be worth the same after it's fixed, and I call BS. Hold out and ask for damages toward "reduced resale value" which if it were me I would think it be the same as a salvaged titled vehicle.

The crazy thing is, it was actually MY insurance that told me it wouldn't lose value. Why would they give me bad advice when they aren't even flipping the bill? I won't get a salvage title because it wasn't totaled. Repairs are going to cost around $15k and they say the Jeep is worth $23k. My argument was, "after they pay me the reduced resale value plus repair costs it will exceed $23k, so just total it." But they say it won't lose value. Such a headache. The accident wasn't my fault, I have full coverage, and they are still trying to screw me.
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:06 PM   #11
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It will have an "R" title, and it will definitely effect resale value. You can count on loosing 20-25% on resale. The dealer you bought this from should be able to help you out with identifying what the diminished value is and you can present that to your insurance company
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Old 09-09-2014, 03:53 PM   #12
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It will have an "R" title, and it will definitely effect resale value. You can count on loosing 20-25% on resale. The dealer you bought this from should be able to help you out with identifying what the diminished value is and you can present that to your insurance company
This^^^^

If you provide the insurance company with documentation on current offers for the vehicle(repaired) then they can't refute it, or vehicles that have sold with similar repairs for comparison.. A buddy of mine had his M-coupe totaled and they tried giving him bluebook value, which was no where near what it was worth... he told them to find one for the price they were offering and they couldnt and actually wound up paying much much more when they found the same vehicles going for 2x the bluebook value. Insurance companies bank on you being uninformed.. once you start poking and prodding them they are pretty quick to deal and just get rid of you. Once you show them real market values there isn't much they can do, but until then they will continue to say what ever suits them.
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Old 09-09-2014, 04:05 PM   #13
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I was recently rear ended while stopped at a stop light. I was sandwiched between the car behind and the car in front of me. Luckily no one was seriously hurt. Damage didn't look bad at first, but my doors were popping open and they didn't seem to shut right. Got it to the garage and they said my frame is FUBAR. They want to replace the entire frame. Insurance is paying for it so cost is not an issue, but am I losing all resale value? My adjuster says my Jeep is worth 23K and will still be worth that with the new frame. I am skeptical. I said no practical person would ever pay that much for a vehicle with frame damage. Should I lawyer up and try to force them to total my Jeep? What kind of issues can I expect in the future from a frame replacement?

2013 JK, 2 door, 20k miles
I haven't read all the posts.. forgive me if it's already been stated. I would get a trade-in value now at a dealer where you bought the Jeep - sight unseen. Tell them its in perfect condition.

After they give you the trade in value ON PAPER.. drop the bomb and say its in the shop getting the frame replaced. Then ask them if they will honor that trade-in value. If not, what they will give you after the repairs are done.

Perhaps a bit disceptive.. this is the only way you'll get a fair comparison.

Good luck.

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Old 09-09-2014, 04:32 PM   #14
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Hit up Google with "Diminished value" and you'll have a field day. I would get a 3rd party involved to do an inspection for diminished value. This might be as simple as another body shop, but they are trained in understanding diminished value.

Replacing an entire frame is no small amount of work, add in diminished value and total loss probably makes a lot more sense.

Don't assume your insurance company is working for you. They may not be fighting as hard as you think. Though I'm no fan of hiring an attorney you may want to consult with one so you're sure you're not getting hosed.
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Old 09-09-2014, 04:39 PM   #15
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First go to the NADA website and get the current value of the Jeep without damage. Then get a trade in value with damage from the dealer. I don't know what all you have on yours so I just did an average Jeep write up. NADA has the average trade in value at $21,300. Take the NADA price and the Dealer price to the insurance company and tell them you want the difference. If they refuse go to the court house and file suite and ask for a jury trial. Most of the time when the insurance company is served they want to talk to and make a deal. I had to do this when my wife wrecked her 1999 Durango. We were dealing with Progressive insurance (Worst to work with) and after we filed the came back to me with an agreeable settlement. It is a lot of work but it is the only way.

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Old 09-09-2014, 04:39 PM   #16
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I would ask the insurance company, not the agent, if they will provide full coverage/full value replacement on a salvage titled vehicle. Answer will be no.
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Old 09-10-2014, 12:06 AM   #17
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Just because frame replaced does not mean it will then be a salvage title, in order to salvage, they would total it then give him the option to buy it back, I have a bike that has a new frame and was never totaled. Therefor still original title, It cost less to replac frame than total value so frame was replaced just like a fender or hood would be... So a frame replacement don't necessarily mean it is a salvaged rig. But it will have a diminished value for the simple fact it was involved in a wreck. Therefore you are entitled to diminished value as long as you are not the cause of the diminished value.
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Old 09-10-2014, 12:36 AM   #18
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The reason I sought a buy back on my new 2005 Toyota Land Cruiser was because the frame needed to be replaced. Not due to an accident, but a defective frame. Think about that for a moment...

Now... you're looking at full disassembly and reassembly of all major components at a body shop or dealer. Not saying it can't be done, the question is can it go back together the same using all the factory torque values - many performed by automation? Or will 2 or 3 temp workers get the opportunity to pull a new Wrangler apart using their own tools?

It will not be salvaged as was mentioned, but most likely will be tagged as having the frame replaced. That usually is a vehicle that you see on a small used car lot because dealers don't want to mess around with them - high risk, low return.

In essence it becomes the registered owner's problem if the reassembly doesn't go well - you are left with a payment and vehicle no one wants.

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Old 09-10-2014, 01:04 AM   #19
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Once that you have been in a accident, then your wrangler has just been de-evaluated by 20%. This is a fact, that your Dealer will confirm. And yes it will show up on your carfax.

So if the other party was at fault, then their Insurance Company, needs to belly up to the bar, and pay you this difference.

If you think that I am wrong, then go check it out with your Dealer.
I have already learned this the hard way, on a previous vehicle that I owned!!!!!!!!
And no Insurance Company is ever going to make you aware of this up front........
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Old 09-10-2014, 01:21 AM   #20
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A frame Job is not all that hard. Especially in our hobby. we all swap or want to swap out axles motors ect. only main Item left it the body.

Diminished value is the way to go.

Your insurance is right and wrong with telling you will you lose value two part answer if your vehicle gets in a collision no your vehicle will not lose value. but if you go to sell it yes it will.

Diminished value is a process and sometimes you will be out of a vehicle for a little while after you get it re assembled. as the next shop will sometimes need to disassemble the vehicle to re-inspect the work preformed. I have been on the insurance side of the DV claims.

Depending on where you live a DV claim can be different and also different process.Insurance companies will make it as hard as possible to deter people from filing those claims. Some will even tell you that you cannot file one until you go to re-sale the vehicle BS on that also.

Most frames are usually 40-60 hours to replace. I work on cars most of the time with more body frame and mech labor than that all the time.

I just finished a 2013 lexus hybrid total body labor 77.9 and mech labor 18.3 hrs frame labor 6.5.
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Old 09-12-2014, 10:27 PM   #21
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I would add just because they replace the frame doesn't mean the body is going to line back up perfectly. If your doors aren't closing properly now, setting a new frame underneath isn't going to magically straighten everything above it. I would take some earlier adivice and have it towed to a Jeep body shop and trade it in as is. Ask for a reasonable number that reflects what it was worth the second before the accident and get a new JK. And whatever you do, and matter how much they beg, do not sign off on or settle the personal injury portion of the case until the physical damages to your Jeep are agreed upon and you have the check in your hand. Diminished value is very difficult to quantify. Insurance companies don't want to pay it, even though they should be required to IMO, and usually make you to through all sorts of gyrations to even begin a conversation. Id insist on a rental Jeep Wrangler or other truck at the insurance company's expense for the duration of the negotiations. And personally, I'd never take that Jeep back. IMO anyway.
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Old 09-12-2014, 11:50 PM   #22
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LOL, In Georgia there was legislation several years ago that makes a DV payout automatic from insurers who want to insure in GA. So you don't have to go to court and sue them over it. In fact, you CAN'T do so, as long as they pay you the amount determined by the formula provided by the state.

So fast forward to my wife a couple years ago. 8 month old 2011 Grand Cherokee Overland Hemi -- $48,500 truck. 8000 miles on it. Dude runs a redlight and does $10,500 worth of damage. (amazingly, and as an aside, all of that damage was in front of the hood! Hood and both front fenders were unscathed! 2k of it was the radar unit for adaptive cruise control.)

Anyway, the wonderful state formula dictated the other guy's insurance co had to pay me DV for this major damage, right? Guess how much: $850.

Yup. Can you imagine looking at two GCs, worth probably 42k on the used market at the time; one is perfect, the other has just had 10k worth of damage repairs. Would you buy the second one for only $800 less?

Didn't take long to figure out that the insurance companies were completely behind the legislation that was forcing them to pay us DV claims. It set the amount artificially low, and prevented us from being able to sue them for a reasonable amount.
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Old 09-13-2014, 01:05 PM   #23
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Insurance companies are deceptive. They gladly take your premiums and then find every possibly way not to pay out. Once, I hired a lawyer after I was hit hard on my side by a drunk driver - I was the passenger riding shotgun, injured. If I recall, the dude didn't have insurance.

Since I was the passenger, my lawyer tapped my auto insurer under uninsured motorist. They in turn went after reimbursement through any means they could though litigation or negotiations between other insurance companies carrying liability.

I work in an industry that makes things to save lives.. where everyone wins, including my company.

I'll never relate to an industry where the primary goal is to chase dollars... where everyone loses, except the insurance company.

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Old 09-20-2014, 08:59 PM   #24
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This may help you. My daughter was rearended 3 weeks ago in her 2013 sahara unlimited by another jk. There were no injuries at all. They wanted to replace the frame and we pretty much said no! My wife called the insurance company and said this vehicle will never be the same. I took pic of door jams, A post, Cowl, Fenders, Door Jams and floor pan. Im not sure how much damage you have but the front doors were pushed 1/2" past the A post. Dig your heels in and settle for nothing less than a total. When we asked to speak to a manager the adjuster called back a couple of hour later and said they would total it.

Good Luck

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