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Old 02-21-2017, 12:42 PM
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2" lift - Dealer advice correct?

First off...I've been reading this Forum since I purchased by bone stock 2006 TJ 14 months ago...but this will be my first post.

I've been looking to do a 2" lift (and move to 31s), and based on my research, including all the great info on this Forum, I've decided to go with a BDS lift (springs and shock). I went to talk to my local BDS dealer about potentially having them do the install (instead of doing it myself) and they told me that I would also have to install longer sway bar end links and also add cam bolts for caster adjustment. Does that sound right? This is the first time I've heard of needing longer end links or cam bolts. I tend to think the dealer knows what's he's talking about but find it odd that I haven't heard of this before.

I figured I'd check with the experts. I'm still deciding on whether or not to do all this myself but need to lock down everything that needs replaced regardless of who does the install.

Thanks for the help.

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Old 02-21-2017, 12:57 PM   #2
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Lots of people install 2" springs or 2" Budget Boost Spacer and use the stock swaybar links. But ideally it is better to have 2" longer links.

Also with 2", if you don't relocate the trackbar mounts, the stock trackbars will pull the axles slightly to one side more than the other. It really does not affect drivability, but it's more of a visual thing. Again, many people with 2" do not worry about it.

The bare minimum I would do for 2"
2" Springs
2" Shocks
Bumpstop extensions

The right way for 2":
2" Springs
2" Shocks
Bumpstop extensions
2" Swaybar links
Rear trackbar relocation bracket
Front adj Metal Cloak Trackbar.

I know it gets a bit confusing, but you can start with the bare minimum and add the other stuff later.

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Old 02-21-2017, 02:35 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextreme View Post
Lots of people install 2" springs or 2" Budget Boost Spacer and use the stock swaybar links. But ideally it is better to have 2" longer links.

Also with 2", if you don't relocate the trackbar mounts, the stock trackbars will pull the axles slightly to one side more than the other. It really does not affect drivability, but it's more of a visual thing. Again, many people with 2" do not worry about it.

The bare minimum I would do for 2"
2" Springs
2" Shocks
Bumpstop extensions

The right way for 2":
2" Springs
2" Shocks
Bumpstop extensions
2" Swaybar links
Rear trackbar relocation bracket
Front adj Metal Cloak Trackbar.

I know it gets a bit confusing, but you can start with the bare minimum and add the other stuff later.
Spot on advice...!
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Old 02-21-2017, 02:39 PM   #4
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@Dextreme is right (as usual ). I run the BDS 2" kit and it is great and the shocks give you arguably some of the best travel for their size.

Many people run the stock sway bar links. I decided to replace them because my rears seemed a little tight on the brake lines when the axle drooped and the front sway bar links can bind/bend/break if drooped just right. I have been wanting to upgrade to some quick disconnects anyway so I replaced the fronts with Teraflex disconnects and the rears with some longer links from Zone. You can contact Morris 4x4 here on the forum and they should give you a great deal (they did for me).

Cam bolts aren't necessary. While it would allow you to get some caster back I do not feel the loss of caster has effected the streetability of my Jeep. You can notice the slightly easier/looser steering, but it is still very comfortable at 65mph on the freeway.

Lastly, as Dex said you can get adjustable trackbars. When you lift your front axle will pull to the driver's side and the rear to the passenger's. It is purely cosmetic, but if you want to correct it you can do adjustable trackbars (Metalcloak is a great option with lots of clearance) or brackets. For the front I would only recommend an adjustable trackbar. You can correct it by drilling the mount, but the new hole will be pretty close to the edge of the bracket and on such an important part of the vehicle I wouldn't want to risk it. The rear can be done with a relocation bracket which bolts into the existing hole and re-positions the trackbar. While many run this setup I have seen a few people mention some failures. Rather than risk it I just left it as is and it really isn't noticeable unless you're looking for it.

The only thing that the BDS kit doesn't include are bumpstop extensions. You need to add these to make sure you don't bust your shocks! You can get some body lift pucks and cut them down to size. This is one reason I decided to install the kit myself, because I wanted to measure everything to get the proper bumpstop extension size. There are write-ups on the forum which I can link if you would like to read. If I remember correctly I think I added 7/8" in the front and 1-7/16" in the rear.

Bare minimum are the springs, shocks, and bumpstop extensions; everything else can be added in time.
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Old 02-21-2017, 04:05 PM   #5
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It's best to purchase longer swaybar end links that will put the sway bar back to it's stock geometry (parallel with the ground within +-3/8").

If the end of the sway bar is pointing down or pointing up, the sway bar will not react the same to normal road conditions.

Case in point, my sway bar was pointing up on the ends on my TransAm when I lowered it 1.5 inches which caused more body roll when turning!

And T.Wagner was spot on! I have my 2.5" lift on 31's and it's a very good setup.
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Old 02-21-2017, 06:28 PM   #6
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Ok some dumb question, I can use a relocation trac bar bracket for the rear?
For the front you recommend an adjustable trac bar, when installing, do you subtract 2" from the stock trac bar? Or add 2"
Never done this before, just had a 2 inch lift put on by 4 WD. 4WD said nothing to me about bump stops, trac relocation bracket, sway bar links or new front trac bar. Wish they would have at least said something

Thanks for all the good info, all that matters is getting it right
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Old 02-21-2017, 06:47 PM   #7
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Ok some dumb question, I can use a relocation trac bar bracket for the rear?
For the front you recommend an adjustable trac bar, when installing, do you subtract 2" from the stock trac bar? Or add 2"
Never done this before, just had a 2 inch lift put on by 4 WD. 4WD said nothing to me about bump stops, trac relocation bracket, sway bar links or new front trac bar. Wish they would have at least said something

Thanks for all the good info, all that matters is getting it right
Like we said these things can be added in time, but you definitely need to add some bumpstop extensions that are appropriate for your lift. What brand lift did you get?

With the trackbar you will need it to be longer to accommodate the added height. The MC trackbar is just about perfect for a 2" lift at its shortest length. The rear you can do a bracket, but in my opinion I would leave it stock unless it bothers you that much. I'm pretty OCD and it doesn't bother me. The added risk of breakage wasn't worth it to me, but like I said many are successfully running them.

Your rear sway bar links should be fine. I replaced mine with longer ones because I got a good price on them. The front ones can bind if it is dropped enough when wheeling, but if you disconnect your sway bar you'll be fine.
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Old 02-21-2017, 06:49 PM
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Thanks guys. Really appreciate all the advice. It sounds like the shop was pretty much in line with all of you except for his suggestion of cam bolts. I'm surprised he didn't recommend bumpstop extensions...I'll have to check on that one.

Now, I just have to work up the nerve to do the install myself. I've been soaking the upper rear shock bolts with PB for a month now, just in case I end up going that route. Living in the rust belt does have it's drawbacks.
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Old 02-21-2017, 07:34 PM   #9
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You DEFINITELY 100% ABSOLUTELY need bump stop extensions otherwise you can/will damage bust your shock or shock mounts!

They are cheap (all you need are some body lift pucks and some screws) and easy to do install. The rears go between the upper perch and bump stop cup so all you need is a longer bolt. The fronts go on the bottom and you need to drill and tap a hole into spring cup thing. It's pretty thin metal so it is easy to do. I can take a photo when I get home if I remember to show you exactly what I mean.
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Old 02-21-2017, 09:59 PM   #10
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You can see the extensions below. The first picture is the front and the second is the rear.
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Old 02-22-2017, 07:45 AM   #11
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T Wagner, can these be installed without removing the springs? How big of a puck should I install for a 2 inch lift? 2 Inches?

Just read your post more closely, I was hoping I wouldnt have to pull the springs
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Old 02-22-2017, 07:56 AM
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@T.Wagner Thanks for the pictures. That's definitely helps.

@dlee There is another thread where T.Wagner talks about measuring the up travel of the suspension to determine the length of the bumpstops. If memory serves me, he installed something around 7/8" on the front and 1 9/16" on the back.
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Old 02-22-2017, 08:37 AM   #13
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T Wagner, can these be installed without removing the springs? How big of a puck should I install for a 2 inch lift? 2 Inches?

Just read your post more closely, I was hoping I wouldnt have to pull the springs
The rear you can install without pulling the springs but the front requires drilling and tapping the hole. Also, you'll need to check for clearances with the springs out.

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@T.Wagner Thanks for the pictures. That's definitely helps.

@dlee There is another thread where T.Wagner talks about measuring the up travel of the suspension to determine the length of the bumpstops. If memory serves me, he installed something around 7/8" on the front and 1 9/16" on the back.
While that worked for my BDS kit, it may be different for your BDS kit or for Dlee's kit. What you are adding bumpstop for, as long as everything else has the clearance it needs, is for your shocks. Different shocks will have different bumpstop requirements, so that is why you really need to pull the springs and cycle the suspension with your shocks on.
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Old 02-22-2017, 09:50 AM   #14
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Do you think 4wd.com should have addressed this before they installed my springs?
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Old 02-22-2017, 10:07 AM   #15
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Do you think 4wd.com should have addressed this before they installed my springs?
I am not sure, but I don't think they should be held responsible. What kit did you get? My BDS kit made no mention of requiring additional bumpstop, so I wouldn't think you could hold the company responsible if they didn't add any. If anything it is a big mistake by BDS and other companies to not even mention that you will need to add bumpstop extensions... If your kit does mention it in the instructions but they did it, then absolutely you should contact them and have them fix it.

Here is some reading material that really goes into depth on the process. Specifically pay attention to UnlimitedLJ's posts:
https://www.wranglerforum.com/f210/co...gth-70047.html

There are a few members in Colorado that I know of that know the procedure for adding bumpstop. I wish they would see this and offer to lend a hand
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Old 02-22-2017, 11:29 AM   #16
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Just to confuse matters a little, I installed a Rough Country kit where the instructions said that the bump stops were 'built in to the shocks' and to just let the shocks act as bump stops. Clearly wrong, but I can understand where a shop where time is money would see something like that and say good enough.

In reality though, the post linked to above makes it pretty clear and it's a pretty painless process compared to blowing parts all over the trail
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Old 02-22-2017, 11:32 AM   #17
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Just to confuse matters a little, I installed a Rough Country kit where the instructions said that the bump stops were 'built in to the shocks' and to just let the shocks act as bump stops. Clearly wrong, but I can understand where a shop where time is money would see something like that and say good enough.

In reality though, the post linked to above makes it pretty clear and it's a pretty painless process compared to blowing parts all over the trail
The reason for that is because it is Rough Country... I can't believe that a company would actually say that in their paperwork...
@dlee : I see you have a 2" Pro Comp lift. I looked at the instructions and they do not say that you need bumpstop extensions, so I do not think you can hold them responsible. This is something you'll have to tackle yourself or you can post up in the Colorado forum and see if there are members nearby that can help you do this if you're not comfortable with it.
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:16 PM   #18
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The reason for that is because it is Rough Country... I can't believe that a company would actually say that in their paperwork...
And its also probably a reason why the RC shocks are short lived (lots of complaints of blown RC Shocks after a year or two).
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:39 PM   #19
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And its also probably a reason why the RC shocks are short lived (lots of complaints of blown RC Shocks after a year or two).
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Old 02-23-2017, 09:47 PM
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This might be a dumb question but I'm trying to think thru the bumpstop piece. If I don't run disconnected (swaybar ends), would the bumpstop extensions still be necessary? Wouldn't the swaybar ends limit the upward travel? Like I said, maybe a dumb question, I still learning.
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Old 02-24-2017, 01:32 AM   #21
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This might be a dumb question but I'm trying to think thru the bumpstop piece. If I don't run disconnected (swaybar ends), would the bumpstop extensions still be necessary? Wouldn't the swaybar ends limit the upward travel? Like I said, maybe a dumb question, I still learning.
No, you could still hit full bump on road with the sway bar connected. The sway bar helps to keep the left and right side connected; so when one side goes up the other gets pulled up too. This is to help limit body roll. If you hit a bump straight on while connected they will both go up and you can get to full bump. Sway bars do not limit travel in that way.

You really need the bumpstop extensions, plain and simple. There really is no other way around it unfortunately. The task is easy to do it just takes a little time to jack everything up, check everything, measure, and whatnot. The actual process is easy, just a little time consuming. There are many friendly memebers around though so you could always post up in your local section of the forum and see if someone can lend you a hand.

EDIT: The job could be made significantly more difficult depending on the rust levels of your Jeep. In PA I can see your hesitation for DIY.
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Old 02-24-2017, 08:30 AM   #22
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maybe this is dumb of me, but do you actually need a lift to run 31's? I have 31's on both my 97 and 00 and neither has a lift. do you just want to lift your jeep?
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Old 02-24-2017, 09:26 AM   #23
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maybe this is dumb of me, but do you actually need a lift to run 31's? I have 31's on both my 97 and 00 and neither has a lift. do you just want to lift your jeep?
You may be able to get away with 31s on the road without a lift, but if you're off-roading the 2" lift would provide the clearance you need. My 2" BDS seems to have plenty of room so I could probably swap in 32s when I am ready without additional lift.

The general rule of thumb is 2" for 31s and 4" for 33s when being used off-road.
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Old 02-24-2017, 09:28 AM   #24
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I just added pucks. Big fan, I have to put washer and nut on the other side of the coil cup thought because that hardened steel freaking broke my snap on taps.


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Old 02-24-2017, 11:04 AM   #25
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I just added pucks. Big fan, I have to put washer and nut on the other side of the coil cup thought because that hardened steel freaking broke my snap on taps.
Be sure to check up on the pucks periodically. They aren't the toughest material and can start to deteriorate as time passes. Should be fine, just check back on them every few months
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Old 02-24-2017, 11:14 AM   #26
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Be sure to check up on the pucks periodically. They aren't the toughest material and can start to deteriorate as time passes. Should be fine, just check back on them every few months


Ahh I see. Thanks !!
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Old 02-24-2017, 10:57 PM   #27
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...

There are a few members in Colorado that I know of that know the procedure for adding bumpstop. I wish they would see this and offer to lend a hand
Hi! I'll consider myself one of Unlimited's "students". Get ready for my long explanation.

The simplest way I can put it is that when you start adding and changing your Jeep's steering, suspension, tires and drive lines from its stock configuration, you have disrupted their lovely harmonious factory relationships with each other. Not all upgrades and modifications play well with the other things under your Jeep. Trouble can quickly arise.

An often underappreciated feature of our linked suspension is that the control arms and track bars are what determine the motion and position of the axles independently of the coil springs. By putting the Jeep on stands and removing the coils and jounce bumpers, and disconnecting the sway bars, you are able to move and manipulate the axle throughout its entire range of motion. This allows you to closely replicate the dynamic forces that the suspension experiences on the road and trail with the Jeep's weight compressing the springs and twisting the sway bars all the way until they are stopped. RTI ramps and fork lifts cannot do this. They can only demonstrate a static load.

The goal of cycling the axles without coils and sway bars is to see what parts contact other parts when you hit a speed bump, dip in the road, drop off of a ledge or crawl over a rock. You are looking for that first limitation to up travel for both full bump and full flex and while turning the steering back and forth. Things like compressed shocks, front track bar hitting the diff cover, rear diff cover hitting the gas tank, tires rubbing the steel fenders (not the flexible flares). Whatever that limitation to up travel is is what you extend your bump stops to so that they are what stops the suspension travel instead of that other thing that could break or cause damage. Over compressing a shock is expensive. A broken front track bar results in no steering and then you and others could die. This stuff really matters.

Additionally, bringing the axle to droop will tell you if your brake lines are long enough or if you have driveshaft bind.

Cycling the suspension and setting bump stops really ought to be a basic requirement for anyone making changes to their Jeep. Both for safety, as well as for understanding for yourself what is actually happening down there while you are driving it. Every modified Jeep is different and this is how you can know how your combination of parts work together. Understanding right now how all your parts work together will help you make informed decisions on future modifications.

Speaking for myself, I began with a stock TJ and not knowing anything about how to work on it. A few years later, I am finishing up a well sorted mid-arm suspension and will be moving and extending all the shock mounts soon. I have done all this suspension work myself with a strong focus on knowing my suspension's full ranges of travel and taking everything I can to it's limit. This would have been an impossible undertaking to make any sense of if I hadn't cycled the axles at nearly every stage of the build.
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Old 02-25-2017, 07:59 PM
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@jjvw , thanks for the write-up. It sounds like I'm in the same boat you were a couple years ago...I'm definitely learning


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Old 02-26-2017, 12:12 AM   #29
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@jjvw , thanks for the write-up. It sounds like I'm in the same boat you were a couple years ago...I'm definitely learning


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