4WD indicator light still not working w/new 5 position switch (NP241) - Jeep Wrangler Forum
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Old 12-17-2016, 07:40 PM
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4WD indicator light still not working w/new 5 position switch (NP241)

4WD indicator light not working (update from https://www.wranglerforum.com/f210/4w...t-1908810.html)
2004 Rubi / NP241
I hadn't been in 4WD for a few months, had a new clutch installed, it then snowed, so I engaged 4WD and noticed the indicator light was not working.

Just installed a new 5 position switch T-Case sensor, didn't fix it.
4WD is engaging, however I tested the lockers and they are not engaging (I'm thinking that's because the PCM doesn't know I'm in 4WD).

What else can I check? Is there a fuse for this?
I don't see how, but could it be related to the installation of the new clutch?

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Old 12-17-2016, 08:02 PM   #2
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Burnt out bulb?


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Old 12-17-2016, 08:12 PM
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No bulbs, but did the self-test instrument panel check (hold tripometer and turn key to on) and 4WD lights during test.
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Old 12-17-2016, 08:14 PM   #4
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Pretty sure it is a bulb but if lights with self test not an issue

Is a bulb on my 98 and wife's 04 Rubi


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Old 12-17-2016, 08:22 PM
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OK, I see there's 3 pages in the FSM to test this, but a DRBIII tool is needed, so that won't help me
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Old 12-17-2016, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger84 View Post
Pretty sure it is a bulb but if lights with self test not an issue
Is a bulb on my 98 and wife's 04 Rubi
`98 are bulbs, but the `04 uses LED's
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Old 12-17-2016, 08:34 PM   #7
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4WD indicator light still not working w/new 5 position switch (NP241)

Even with the off road package the FSM shows it as a simple switch

Without off road package the switch grounds the bulb and the bulb gets power fuse block fuse 10

With off road package still a simple open or closed switch no 5 position switch

The two wires to the transfer case switch with the 04 off road package are both from PCM

One is sensor ground blk with light blue stripe from pin 4 connector C1 at PCM

Other is brown with white stripe from pin 14 C1 at PCM

The switch simply connects or disconnects these two wires to each other
(See FSM TJ 2004 page 8W-31-15)

For no off road package see page 8W-31-2

Then apparently the PCM controls the cluster light via the BUS (PCI bus)


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Old 12-17-2016, 08:35 PM   #8
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4WD indicator light still not working w/new 5 position switch (NP241)

See image of circuit with off road package ( not a five position switch in this FSM diagram)




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Old 12-17-2016, 09:08 PM   #9
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Is the little light really that big of a deal? You don't need it to know if you're in 4x or not.
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Old 12-17-2016, 09:18 PM   #10
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If the Rubi PCM does not get the in 4WD signal from switch it may preclude activating lockers unless the bypass wiring method is used

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/04...ge=1&_k=6swczy


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Old 12-17-2016, 09:48 PM
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Is the little light really that big of a deal? You don't need it to know if you're in 4x or not.
Lockers won't engage as PCM doesn't know its in 4WDL
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Old 12-17-2016, 09:54 PM   #12
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There is a bypass for that

http://www.stu-offroad.com/electrical/rubi1/rubi1-1.htm

Also I know people claim 5 position but looks like a big ass single switch with one pair of contacts and that is how FSM shows it

So maybe locker restriction is just 4WD (high or low and speed sensor below some value)

I see no way that simple switch has more than 2 positions


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Old 12-17-2016, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger84 View Post
Even with the off road package the FSM shows it as a simple switch

Without off road package the switch grounds the bulb and the bulb gets power fuse block fuse 10

With off road package still a simple open or closed switch no 5 position switch

The two wires to the transfer case switch with the 04 off road package are both from PCM

One is sensor ground blk with light blue stripe from pin 4 connector C1 at PCM

Other is brown with white stripe from pin 14 C1 at PCM

The switch simply connects or disconnects these two wires to each other
(See FSM TJ 2004 page 8W-31-15)

For no off road package see page 8W-31-2

Then apparently the PCM controls the cluster light via the BUS (PCI bus)


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Thanks, that helps.
I'll trace the wire tomorrow,
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Old 12-17-2016, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
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I see no way that simple switch has more than 2 positions
It's really a 6 position switch, but only 4 are used:
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Old 12-17-2016, 10:07 PM   #15
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Interesting as that is sure not how they diagramed it in the image I posted from the 04 TJ FSM for off road package switch


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Old 12-17-2016, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger84 View Post
Interesting as that is sure not how they diagramed it in the image I posted from the 04 TJ FSM for off road package switch
I posted from the `04 FSM (TRANSFER CASE - NV241 - Pg 21 - 263)
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Old 12-17-2016, 10:16 PM   #17
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I also gave my page number guess the book is off/ inconsistent again

The good news is with those resistance values simple to place a resistor across leads where switch would plug in and see if light comes on

If it does issues is switch or switch actuation if not problem is elsewhere


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Old 12-17-2016, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
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I also gave my page number guess the book is off/ inconsistent again

The good news is with those resistance values simple to place a resistor across leads where switch would plug in and see if light comes on

If it does issues is switch or switch actuation if not problem is elsewhere
Since it's a new switch, problem is most likely elsewhere, but could be a defective switch
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Old 12-17-2016, 10:26 PM   #19
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There I am pretty sure you are wrong

The off road diagram shows transfer case switch with sensor ground and one other lead both to or from PCM and only the rubicon PCM interfaces with the transfer case switch

Rest just send a ground to wire to bulb in cluster

Part of reason Rubicon PCM is different the other wrangler PCMs
So since the pic Posted shows wires to PCM it had to be the rubicon


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Old 12-17-2016, 10:32 PM   #20
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Since the 4WD indicator is not coming on & the lockers are not engaging meaning the PCM is apparently not getting the 4WD lo signal I would say there may be a problem in the switch or wiring between the switch & the PCM.

I would suggest you check the resistance at the switch (connector disconnected) in each of the positions then if they are as the FSM shows, go to the PCM & unplug the C-1 connector there & check the resistance between the wires there to see if it is the same as at the switch. That should answer if it is a switch or wiring problem or something else.
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Old 12-17-2016, 10:33 PM   #21
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Ok now go to page 8W-31-1
Section called Transmission control system

You will see an entry called
Transfer.case switch listed as 8W31-2 , 15

Then look at those pages
8W-31-2 is non Rubi switch giving ground to cluster

And

8W-31-15 is switch connected to PCM image I already posted




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Old 12-17-2016, 10:40 PM
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You're right, I see it now on Pg 8W-31-15.
It makes sense that the Rubicon is the "Off Road Package" but what confuses me is that on pg 8J - 37 it says "Models that are equipped with the Off-Road Package do not have a hard wired transfer case switch input". The 5 position switch looked like a "hard wired" switch to me.

edit: ok, I see it now, "hard wired" to the console, not through the PCM
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Old 12-17-2016, 10:43 PM
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Since the 4WD indicator is not coming on & the lockers are not engaging meaning the PCM is apparently not getting the 4WD lo signal I would say there may be a problem in the switch or wiring between the switch & the PCM.

I would suggest you check the resistance at the switch (connector disconnected) in each of the positions then if they are as the FSM shows, go to the PCM & unplug the C-1 connector there & check the resistance between the wires there to see if it is the same as at the switch. That should answer if it is a switch or wiring problem or something else.
Since its a new switch (that could be defective), I start with the wiring to the PCM
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Old 12-17-2016, 11:06 PM   #24
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The Rubicons need more than an on-off switch since it needs to know both 4WD hi/lo for the indicator & 4WD lo for the lockers.
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Old 12-18-2016, 06:22 AM   #25
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4WD indicator light still not working w/new 5 position switch (NP241)

Looks like it is really just a variable resistor like a pot with a slider where resistance varies with plunger extension making length of plunger and how FAR it is screwed in important

Which is why the easiest step one is replace sensor with proper ohm resistor and see if light comes on

Measuring resistance with sensor installed is also fine but measuring resistance of removed sensor is not workable as cannot tell where plunger was along its stroke when installed and 4 hi or 4 low selected


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Old 12-18-2016, 07:04 AM   #26
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4WD indicator light still not working w/new 5 position switch (NP241)

It sounds like voodoo but this guy who installed a new OEM sensor then had to do a PCM reset and a cluster self check to make it work after new sensor install

Sounds silly but costs nothing and worth a try

See link

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/review/...=UTF8&cursor=2


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Old 12-18-2016, 07:45 AM
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Just measured the resistance of the old switch, and it was working (checked all positions from fully extended @ 20mm to position 1 @ 10mm (2H)
At 12mm (4H) I got a reading of 671Ω, so while you're correct that placing a 700Ω resistor on the plug is the right step 1, the only way that would light the indicator would be if the shaft in the T-Case that moves the plunger is where the problem is (which is possible).
So, while I agree with you, I think I'll jump to step 2 and trace the wire looking for a break before I make a trip to radio shack to get the resistor.

And thanks again for your help. This has been a frustrating little project (first I couldn't get enough leverage from under the Jeep, so I had to get to it from above by removing the T-Case shifter, which meant a trip for a 1˝ socket, then of course I needed a ˝" swivel and I only had a ⅜" — which didn't bother me until I found out that the new switch wasn't the problem)
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Old 12-18-2016, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger84 View Post
It sounds like voodoo but this guy who installed a new OEM sensor then had to do a PCM reset and a cluster self check to make it work after new sensor install

Sounds silly but costs nothing and worth a try

See link

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/review/...=UTF8&cursor=2
Interesting. Similar as mine ("This happened after I did a clutch install, so I thought that the harness wires were pinched"), except that since I didn't go into 4WD for months before the clutch install, I could not confirm that that clutch install caused the problem.

I'll give that bit of voodoo a try.
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Old 12-18-2016, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger84 View Post
It sounds like voodoo but this guy who installed a new OEM sensor then had to do a PCM reset and a cluster self check to make it work after new sensor install

Sounds silly but costs nothing and worth a try

See link: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/review/...=UTF8&cursor=2
Holy Shit!! It worked!!!

How did you even find the answer buried within an Amazon comment!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!
I owe you a beer, hell, I owe you a case!
And let me say Thank You!



I'll post the full Amazon Comment you linked here:

Jeep 241OR TCase switch
Customer rating 5.0/5.0
July 17, 2014
Amazon Verified Purchase
1 out of 1 found this helpful

Fitted to my 2003 Rubicon Tcase 241OR RockTrack. You need a 1 1/2" socket on a 3/4" ratchet to get the old one out and the new one in after disconnecting the harness plug on top of the switch sensor. Trickier without body lift (I have one). This happened after I did a clutch install, so I thought that the harness wires were pinched, checked them all , and came to conclusion that the switch bit the dust somehow during the removal and reinstall.

My symptoms were that the 4WD light didn't come on and therefore the lockers didn't engage in LOW range. After installing the new switch, I still didn't get the 4WD light to operate, I did a battery disconnect, no luck, then tried this, quoted from another website :-

1. Disconnect the POSITIVE battery Terminal and touch it to ground for 30 seconds. (This is to discharge the PCM capacitors, which maintain the Adaptive Memory.
2. Reconnect the Battery Cable
3. Turn Ignition Switch to the "ON" position but DO NOT start the engine
4. Turn Headlight "ON"
5. Turn Headlights "OFF"
6. Turn Ignition Key "OFF"
The PCM Adaptive memory has now been flashed, or erased from the PCM.

Still no 4WD light. Soooo.....

I did the dash light test routine (google it, if I remember it's hold the ODO switch and key-on the ignition switch) and then the light came back on after keying off and back on. YMMV.
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Old 12-18-2016, 08:19 AM   #30
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Just as an aside looks like off road is what the OR in 241OR stands for so kinda makes since FSM calls it off road

This from JP mag article

"Variations: Shown here are the only two Jeep versions that exist. Shown on the right is the Rock-Trac, which is known as the 241OR (OR stands for off-road). The non-Rubicon model is labeled 241J."

Full TC case article here

http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/tr...ransfer-cases/

Still not a excuse for FSM diagraming it as a simple open closed switch

I did learn something new about that switch and I am grateful

One last question as you depress the plunger on an uninstalled switch is it a smooth continuous travel or are there detents you can feel

Since same switch is listed for some WJ may pick up one at you pull it just to play around or dissect it and see what is inside



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