Is this Ford 9" good for a swap? - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Jeep Wrangler Forum > TJ Tech Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Like Tree3Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 07-12-2017, 05:07 PM
Thread Starter
  #1
Jeeper
 
Garret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 347
Is this Ford 9" good for a swap?

I've been looking for a nodular ford 9" and came across a Nodular Ford 9" 31 spline open diff out of a 1973 Torino. I've read that this axle is either 59.25" or 61.25" wide so it is close to my stock axle (60.5"). It states it has the heavy duty thick walled housing and 3.25" axle tubes with flat tops. Is this the type of Ford 9" axle I should start building for my jeep? I will be doing a disc brake conversion most likely and putting a locker in. Since it has 2.75 gear ratio, I will be regearing to match my 4.56 gears or may regear both axles to 4.88.
Thank you in advance

Garret is offline   Quote
Old 07-12-2017, 05:49 PM   #2
Jeeper
 
daveTJ04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: ohio
Posts: 2,288
u can put in any axle u want as long as u can afford/find the pinion conversion and brake parts. the 9 might not be super common in jeeps but could work, u don't care for the 8.8's? tons around and bracket kits are readily available for easy swap-over too, u can find um with 3.75 gears and LS too, even if u don't like the LS pawn it.. off prob pay for the axle

daveTJ04 is offline   Quote
Old 07-12-2017, 06:08 PM
Thread Starter
  #3
Jeeper
 
Garret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveTJ04 View Post
u can put in any axle u want as long as u can afford/find the pinion conversion and brake parts. the 9 might not be super common in jeeps but could work, u don't care for the 8.8's? tons around and bracket kits are readily available for easy swap-over too, u can find um with 3.75 gears and LS too, even if u don't like the LS pawn it.. off prob pay for the axle
I have 4.56 gears in right now so gear ratio doesn't matter since I will have to regear to match anyways. I planned on doing the 8.8 swap but I would rather go with a stronger axle from the start and my brother and I are familiar with the 9" axles (regearing, locker, etc) so I am more comfortable with that as long as I can find a good bracket kit for it. For everything I wanted from ECGS.com was going to cost 3 grand for a fully built 8.8 axle. I'd rather build a 9" and have it be stronger and cheaper.
Garret is offline   Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-12-2017, 07:14 PM
Thread Starter
  #4
Jeeper
 
Garret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 347
Pretty much I would like to know if this is a good base to build off of compared to other models of the ford 9".
Garret is offline   Quote
Old 07-12-2017, 07:17 PM   #5
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 13,238
9 inch nodular of proper width is a gem especially if lug pattern matches your rims

Gear swaps are simple thanks to the removable third member

Disk brakes not needed but 9 inch from Versailles has discs


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
Digger84 is offline   Quote
Old 07-12-2017, 07:21 PM   #6
Jeeper
 
daveTJ04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: ohio
Posts: 2,288
yah 8.8 ECGS is no deal once u start adding things on............ artec got some nice truss n bracket sys but I didn't see brackets cut for the 9" , any bracket sys for a big axle will do for u (get closest smaller size), just might have to open/play with that tube radius on um, if ur not scared to weld it.. trimming brackets is gravy
daveTJ04 is offline   Quote
Old 07-12-2017, 07:31 PM   #7
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 13,238
https://www.wranglerforum.com/f118/fo...s/98511?page=2

Had a 9 in my 69 428 cobra jet stang and never gave me any trouble


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
Digger84 is offline   Quote
Old 07-12-2017, 08:27 PM
Thread Starter
  #8
Jeeper
 
Garret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 347
Update

Now the guy told me that the axle has stamped on it that it is a 28 spline and measures 55 3/4" from backing plate. Now I need some help to decide on if this is worth it. I could get it cheap but how hard it is it to covert from 28 spline to 31 spline when adding in a locker and regearing? Wouldn't I just need 31 spline axle shafts and I could get the axle shafts in 5x4.5 bolt pattern so I can run my wheels. I am concerned about the axle width. Is the 55 3/4" backing plate measurement correct for a TJ? Since I am assuming the total axle width is around 60"??
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	output.jpg
Views:	65
Size:	194.8 KB
ID:	3670993   Click image for larger version

Name:	output-1.jpg
Views:	40
Size:	197.0 KB
ID:	3671001  

Click image for larger version

Name:	output-2.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	186.9 KB
ID:	3671009   Click image for larger version

Name:	output-3.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	204.1 KB
ID:	3671017  

Garret is offline   Quote
Old 07-12-2017, 08:35 PM   #9
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 13,238
http://www.kevinstang.com/Ninecase.htm


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
Digger84 is offline   Quote
Old 07-12-2017, 09:27 PM
Thread Starter
  #10
Jeeper
 
Garret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 347
The guy also just told me that this axle has the smaller bearings in it. I think I am going to pass on it. The only thing this axle has going for it is the Nodular case. Unless I'm wrong, I do not think I can convert a 28 spline small bearing into a 31 spline big bearing.
Garret is offline   Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 12:39 AM
Thread Starter
  #11
Jeeper
 
Garret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 347
Bought it!

After being on the phone with him getting measurements, we found out that it is the Torino (New Style) large bearing! I bought it for $175! Now I have to come up with a build for it and decide which spline I want to end up with.
Garret is offline   Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 11:45 AM   #12
Jeeper
 
Dextreme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 8,397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garret View Post
After being on the phone with him getting measurements, we found out that it is the Torino (New Style) large bearing! I bought it for $175! Now I have to come up with a build for it and decide which spline I want to end up with.

Cool project! Keep us posted on your build thread.
Garret likes this.
__________________
'99 Chili Pepper TJ - I4 PowerTech motor
33x12.5 DuraTracs
Zone 4.25"
F8.8/Artec Rear
Dextreme is offline   Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 11:58 AM   #13
Jeeper
 
mudbug85603's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 1,243
You won't be disappointed with the 9" far better than an 8.8 in many ways. Know a couple folks that put them in YJ's and I've run them in rock crawler Broncos for years. Doubt you'll need to truss it as mentioned earlier plenty strong for a TJ.
Garret likes this.
__________________


'98 TJ 5sp Super 35 D30 w/Aussie 5.13 on 33's
'94 YJ 5sp 4.88 D35/HP30 sitting on 33's
mudbug85603 is offline   Quote
Old 07-13-2017, 10:43 PM
Thread Starter
  #14
Jeeper
 
Garret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 347
31 or 35 spline?

I am beginning to think of a build plan for this axle and noticed 4wheelparts.com that there is no price difference between a 31 spline and 35 spline detroit locker. I'm assuming that axle shafts are a little more expensive for 35 spline, but not by much. Does it make more sense to skip the 31 spline and just go straight to the 35 spline? What is a general price difference from upgrading to a 35 spline compared to 31 spline?
What is a common disc brake swap that people do in these axles as well? (link would be helpful)
Is it worth putting a pinion guard on? I do rock crawling and would prefer not to damage my axle.
I plan to upgrade from 33" tires to 35" tires and stay that way for a long time. However, I would not be surprised if I eventually go 37" many many years down the road. I have 4.56 gears up front, is it worth re-gearing the front to 4.88 or should I just put 4.56 gears in the 9" to save some money? I believe I could run 35" tires with 4.56 gears fine. I would definitely re-gear for 37" tires though whenever that day comes.
Lastly, would it be worth doing a 4-link in the rear? Not sure how hard this would be. I would like to stick with short arms and do not see much about a short arm 4-link setup.
Thanks!
Garret is offline   Quote
Old 07-14-2017, 01:57 AM   #15
Newb
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 8
There is much to tell you but I will be brief. The 3rd member you have will not work with 35 spline axles. The Torino and truck 9" 3rd uses a 3.1" bearing, the aftermarket 3rds are available with a 3.25" bearing that is necessary for the larger 35 & 40 spline axles.
Also, the stock housings are very weal at the ends, they have large tubes but they taper at the ends and are susceptible to bending outside of the springs. You can use what you have and upgrade to alloy 31 spline axles and it will work and be an improvement in strength over the D35 but it is far from bulletproof, especially if you intend to go to 37" tires. If that is your goal, then save up and buy a custom fabbed housing from one of the companies such as Currie. By time you regear and do the Fab work you will have spent at least 1/2 of the cost of getting the good set up in the beginning. I learned this the hard way and went through two stock housings before getting a fabbed housing which I have had now for 7 years of hard use with no issues. Look here Currie Enterprises TJ-F9300R - TJ F9 9" Rearend Unit (61" Wide, Bolt-In)
This unit is complete with all mounts and axles ready to bolt in just add your new big bearing 3rd member. I know it is a lot of money but what you have now is miles away from being ready to use in your TJ. Sell that set up to someone building a hot rod and get what you really need the first time.
Gunit is offline   Quote
Old 07-14-2017, 02:05 AM   #16
Newb
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 8
The hot set up for brakes is to use the Ford Explorer rear disc brakes with integral e brake. They can even be ordered installed on the housing from Currie
Garret likes this.
Gunit is offline   Quote
Old 07-14-2017, 10:15 AM
Thread Starter
  #17
Jeeper
 
Garret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunit View Post
There is much to tell you but I will be brief. The 3rd member you have will not work with 35 spline axles. The Torino and truck 9" 3rd uses a 3.1" bearing, the aftermarket 3rds are available with a 3.25" bearing that is necessary for the larger 35 & 40 spline axles.
Also, the stock housings are very weal at the ends, they have large tubes but they taper at the ends and are susceptible to bending outside of the springs. You can use what you have and upgrade to alloy 31 spline axles and it will work and be an improvement in strength over the D35 but it is far from bulletproof, especially if you intend to go to 37" tires. If that is your goal, then save up and buy a custom fabbed housing from one of the companies such as Currie. By time you regear and do the Fab work you will have spent at least 1/2 of the cost of getting the good set up in the beginning. I learned this the hard way and went through two stock housings before getting a fabbed housing which I have had now for 7 years of hard use with no issues. Look here Currie Enterprises TJ-F9300R - TJ F9 9" Rearend Unit (61" Wide, Bolt-In)
This unit is complete with all mounts and axles ready to bolt in just add your new big bearing 3rd member. I know it is a lot of money but what you have now is miles away from being ready to use in your TJ. Sell that set up to someone building a hot rod and get what you really need the first time.
I've looked into the currie F9 before. I do not have the banjo style housing. I have the nodular case, with 3.25" axle tubes and they do not taper down like some other ford 9" axle tubes I have seen. I'm seeing all kinds of answers, some saying that the torino style (new big bearing) and that is what is needed for 35 spline shafts, and some saying not. I do not have the small bearings though which I know is important. 35 spline 9" conversion - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum. Either way, I would be completely fine running 31 spline chromoly shafts with a locker. I am never throttle heavy on it, and from what I have read, 31 spline axle shafts are very hard to break with 35" tires. I may or may not end with 35" tires since 37" tires are insanely expensive to build for, but you never know. I really can't justify the price difference when I can build this rear end for cheap compared to buying a built one. Buying a built one was the original plan too, but my brother and I can easily build a 9" and fab it up.
Garret is offline   Quote
Old 07-14-2017, 10:27 AM
Thread Starter
  #18
Jeeper
 
Garret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunit View Post
There is much to tell you but I will be brief. The 3rd member you have will not work with 35 spline axles. The Torino and truck 9" 3rd uses a 3.1" bearing, the aftermarket 3rds are available with a 3.25" bearing that is necessary for the larger 35 & 40 spline axles.
Also, the stock housings are very weal at the ends, they have large tubes but they taper at the ends and are susceptible to bending outside of the springs. You can use what you have and upgrade to alloy 31 spline axles and it will work and be an improvement in strength over the D35 but it is far from bulletproof, especially if you intend to go to 37" tires. If that is your goal, then save up and buy a custom fabbed housing from one of the companies such as Currie. By time you regear and do the Fab work you will have spent at least 1/2 of the cost of getting the good set up in the beginning. I learned this the hard way and went through two stock housings before getting a fabbed housing which I have had now for 7 years of hard use with no issues. Look here Currie Enterprises TJ-F9300R - TJ F9 9" Rearend Unit (61" Wide, Bolt-In)
This unit is complete with all mounts and axles ready to bolt in just add your new big bearing 3rd member. I know it is a lot of money but what you have now is miles away from being ready to use in your TJ. Sell that set up to someone building a hot rod and get what you really need the first time.
This link has the information on the last couple posts, I believe I will just build it as a 31 spline and will probably carry an extra shaft with me. I only ever do slow rock crawling and the tires do not spin. Who knows what I end up doing, but if i can build a 31 spline locked axle for 1/3 of the price of a 35 spline fabricated one. That is what I will most likely do. Who knows, I may change my mind when I look into it more, but I think this is the route I may go.
35 spline 9"??? - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
Garret is offline   Quote
Old 07-14-2017, 12:02 PM   #19
Jeeper
 
mudbug85603's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 1,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garret View Post
I believe I will just build it as a 31 spline and will probably carry an extra shaft with me.
You'll be fine with 31 spline shafts. I've beat the crap out of chromo 31's.
Not saying they will never break, they will take some serious abuse.
__________________


'98 TJ 5sp Super 35 D30 w/Aussie 5.13 on 33's
'94 YJ 5sp 4.88 D35/HP30 sitting on 33's
mudbug85603 is offline   Quote
Old 07-14-2017, 12:46 PM
Thread Starter
  #20
Jeeper
 
Garret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 347
Awesome, what brand of 31 spline chromoly shafts are best?
Garret is offline   Quote
Old 07-14-2017, 02:56 PM   #21
Newb
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 8
The housing is not the limiting factor for using 35 spline axles, it is the 3rd member. The one you have will accept 31 spline maximum.
Gunit is offline   Quote
Old 07-14-2017, 03:55 PM
Thread Starter
  #22
Jeeper
 
Garret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 347
Brakes

So far the currie brake kit is about as cheap as I found so far. I could also go to the junk yard and piece together this kit. I also have to figure out the E-brake cables.
Currie Enterprises CE-6012E1 - 11" Explorer Disc Brake Kit (5 x 4 1/2" Pattern)
Garret is offline   Quote
Old 07-15-2017, 12:34 AM   #23
Jeeper
 
mudbug85603's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 1,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garret View Post
Awesome, what brand of 31 spline chromoly shafts are best?
I run pretty much exclusively Yukon

Why rear disc brakes? not much better braking out of a rear disk conversion definitely not worth the cost IMO and I think you might end up with proportioning valve issues.
__________________


'98 TJ 5sp Super 35 D30 w/Aussie 5.13 on 33's
'94 YJ 5sp 4.88 D35/HP30 sitting on 33's
mudbug85603 is offline   Quote
Old 07-15-2017, 02:18 AM
Thread Starter
  #24
Jeeper
 
Garret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 347
These drum brakes are beyond rebuildable the guy told me with the corrosion and the he took all of the internals out because they were useless. So it's either spend the money on rebuilding them or spending that money on disc brakes instead. Drum brakes really do suck in my opinion and my drum brakes in the Dana 35 are barely enough to stop me and won't save me in an emergency. I'd be fine with my rear brakes locking up before my fronts. It's a manual anyways so I'm not on the brakes a whole lot anyways but I've noticed on off-road trips that the drum brakes don't do well enough for me and that's even on 33" tires. By the time I rebuild these drums, I could've spent probably a $100 more and have disc brakes with all new components
Garret is offline   Quote
Old 07-15-2017, 08:43 AM   #25
Jeeper
 
mudbug85603's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 1,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garret View Post
These drum brakes are beyond rebuildable the guy told me with the corrosion and the he took all of the internals out because they were useless. So it's either spend the money on rebuilding them or spending that money on disc brakes instead. Drum brakes really do suck in my opinion and my drum brakes in the Dana 35 are barely enough to stop me and won't save me in an emergency. I'd be fine with my rear brakes locking up before my fronts. It's a manual anyways so I'm not on the brakes a whole lot anyways but I've noticed on off-road trips that the drum brakes don't do well enough for me and that's even on 33" tires. By the time I rebuild these drums, I could've spent probably a $100 more and have disc brakes with all new components
I get the spend it here or spend it there thing.... If your drum brakes on the TJ or any vehicle weren't working properly then they needed adjustment a very simple process to do.

You really don't want the rear locking up before the fronts. Under a hard braking condition there could be so much weight transfer to the the front that the rear brakes will lock up and skid. That will increase your stopping distances even more so than drum brakes or worse send you careening out of control.

What I'm referring to with the proportioning valve and don't quote me on this as I'm not positive with the TJ. Is that you won't have enough pressure
in the rear braking system to make the brakes work as well as they should. Which will also increase your stopping distance.

DO your home work on this one it's worth the time and effort to have a properly working brake system. It just may be your life or other around you.
__________________


'98 TJ 5sp Super 35 D30 w/Aussie 5.13 on 33's
'94 YJ 5sp 4.88 D35/HP30 sitting on 33's
mudbug85603 is offline   Quote
Old 07-15-2017, 10:23 AM
Thread Starter
  #26
Jeeper
 
Garret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudbug85603 View Post
DO your home work on this one it's worth the time and effort to have a properly working brake system. It just may be your life or other around you.
I'll do some more research on it and see what is all needed regarding a larger break booster, proportioning valve, etc and decide if that's worth doing. I plan on doing gears, locker, shafts, and replacing the bearings by the end of this school year. I planned on doing brakes and mounts next summer so I have plenty of time to think about whether or not I want disc brakes and if I want to do a 4-link setup versus a 5-link.
Garret is offline   Quote
Old 07-15-2017, 10:28 AM   #27
Jeeper
 
mudbug85603's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 1,243
Here's a good place to start with brake questions, Blaine has been in the industry a long time and is an avid Jeeper always willing to help a fellow Jeeper.

Welcome to Black Magic Brakes
__________________


'98 TJ 5sp Super 35 D30 w/Aussie 5.13 on 33's
'94 YJ 5sp 4.88 D35/HP30 sitting on 33's
mudbug85603 is offline   Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 12:28 AM
Thread Starter
  #28
Jeeper
 
Garret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 347
Found out that this axle already has 5x4.5 bolt pattern from the factory out of a '73 Torino. This means I won't have to change hubs. Also took off the shocks, control arms, and pulled the shafts to double check they were 28 spline instead of 31 spline. Cleaned the axle up a little bit as well. Have to figure out how to take the drive shafts off because everything is just cut right in half, including the drive shaft so it is difficult to loosen the 4 bolts and hold the drive shaft tight enough.
Garret is offline   Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 02:24 AM   #29
Newb
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 8
Jus buy a master cylinder from a TJ Rubicon, they come with 4 wheel disc brakes and the proportioning issue is solved
Gunit is offline   Quote
Old 07-16-2017, 11:46 AM
Thread Starter
  #30
Jeeper
 
Garret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 347
What do you guys recommend for a locker? As of now it is still my daily driver and it's a manual. I've heard that automatic lockers are not too fun with manuals but I have no personal experience with one. It won't be my daily driver a few years down the road but will still be driven occasionally on the road.

Garret is offline   Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off






All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, Gladiator, Mopar and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to FCA US LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with FCA US LLC.