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Old 03-15-2015, 10:06 AM
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Metalcloak D30 UCA's

What is the current deal with MC UCA's and the axle side bushings? on the website it seems to imply you get all you need but last thread I could find here indicated you were on your own for the axle end bushings.

And if it is 'good luck with that' who is the preferred vendor for OE bushings?

And one last question on these; I've read the suggestion that shortening the uca's by a touch (1/16" or so) would help caster on a lifted jeep and is a good thing. Is this still understood to be a good plan?

Already have the MC UCA's and a HD JKS trackbar. Wanting to start wrapping up the front suspension and keep the death wobble boogieman far, far away from me. met him once and did not like the experience.

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Old 03-15-2015, 12:57 PM   #2
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Last I spoke to Metalcloak, 2 weeks ago, the front axle MC bushings are on their tj and being tested/abused. I would imagine another month or 2 before we can buy it.

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Old 03-16-2015, 06:22 AM
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Thanks very much.
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Old 03-16-2015, 07:53 AM   #4
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I just used the stock bushing and haven't had any problems. As far as shortening the uppers, that probably won't work because depending on lift height you'll need to adjust the pinion so that it's in line with the driveshaft to keep from getting vibrations
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Old 03-16-2015, 08:19 AM   #5
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Currie has a Johnny Joint saet that is easy and inexpensive, a little welding is required.

https://www.4lowparts.com/product/xj...FYU-aQod-KUAhg



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Old 03-17-2015, 12:00 AM   #6
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Great question...

First, a clarification. Typical flex joints put a lot of stress on the stock axle side bushings, causing premature failure.

Duroflex Joints do not. So, for most applications, and most Jeep owners, running the stock clevite bushing on the axle side with a Duroflex control arm, works great.

However, running the Duroflex Control Arm with the JJ on the axle side is not a good idea. In that case, the Duroflex Joint will do all the work -- flex and vibration dampening -- lessening the long term life of the joint.

Due to requests from customers, we did develop our own Axle Side bushing set up and we are in the middle of testing it. Like everything we do, we like to put stuff through long term testing before releasing it to the public.
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Old 03-17-2015, 12:14 AM   #7
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Due to requests from customers, we did develop our own Axle Side bushing set up and we are in the middle of testing it. Like everything we do, we like to put stuff through long term testing before releasing it to the public.
Good to hear. I've had a pair of new clevites sitting on my workbench for a while but have been to lazy to install them since I heard rumors of a kit from you guys. Hopefully it's soon, I'll be the first to buy!
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Old 03-17-2015, 12:20 AM   #8
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All of this nonsense can be avoided by going with Johnny Joints to begin with.
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Old 03-17-2015, 12:30 AM   #9
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^ agreed
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Old 03-17-2015, 02:05 AM   #10
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All of this nonsense can be avoided by going with Johnny Joints to begin with.
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Old 03-17-2015, 05:39 AM   #11
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It's nice that there will be a kit sooner or later, maybe after EJS. Not sure why a Duroflex joint should be discouraged if you have JJs up front, is the Duroflex not able to handle the strains from a non-self-centering joint? How long should a Duroflex joint last when paired with a JJ? My X-Flex joints currently paired up with the JJs have not worn a bit in 5 years, why would they be ok and not a Duroflex? I'm glad I saw this thread, I've been trying to decide between Duroflex and heims to replace all my X-Flex on mid-length arms.
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Old 03-17-2015, 10:20 AM   #12
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All of this nonsense can be avoided by going with Johnny Joints to begin with.
Meh. My MC arms have been pretty nice since installing them only a over a year ago. And at least with this company I can always get in touch with someone, God forbid there is some kind of race going on if you went with Savvy. Don't get me wrong I like Savvy products, have a few already, and plan on getting more.
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Old 03-17-2015, 12:04 PM   #13
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I've got about 20,000+ miles on my MC lift and it handles no different then the day I installed them. I've even gone from 33" to 35" tires and it's just as nice a ride. My buddy has all jj control arms and he says it's so stiff he needs to change springs and shocks. He loves the way mine rides but he is a little paranoid about durability and longevity. I have 1/2" less up front then him and the same 4.5" in the rear and even with my 35s I out flex him thanks to the metalcloak lift.
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Old 03-17-2015, 12:37 PM   #14
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My buddy has all jj control arms and he says it's so stiff he needs to change springs and shocks.
That's an issue with the shocks & springs, not the type of joint in the control arms....
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Old 03-17-2015, 01:22 PM   #15
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I've got about 20,000+ miles on my MC lift and it handles no different then the day I installed them. I've even gone from 33" to 35" tires and it's just as nice a ride. My buddy has all jj control arms and he says it's so stiff he needs to change springs and shocks. He loves the way mine rides but he is a little paranoid about durability and longevity. I have 1/2" less up front then him and the same 4.5" in the rear and even with my 35s I out flex him thanks to the metalcloak lift.
Funny, I "flex" better than a 3.5" Gamechanger 6-pack lift... suspension performance isn't brand-dependent. Performance is about how the suspension is set up. Metal cloak is not a bad suspension, by any means, but it's also not the best.

As stated earlier, your buddy's bad ride isn't a result of the control arms.

P.S. The MC track bars are the best.
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Old 03-18-2015, 12:00 AM   #16
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We usually don't get into this debate because Currie is a great company, and we wouldn't be here without leaders like them.

Above I mentioned JJ, simply because they are the popular axle side bushing, but let me answer a couple of the other questions coming up.

First, Duroflex Joints were designed to run in parallel with each other, sharing the load, self centering, and creating the most flex in any single production control arm.

If you run a typical flex joint on one end and a Duroflex joint on the other, the Duroflex joint will:
  • Flex First, long before the typical flex joint will (you can test this by just putting a screwdriver in a flex joint and twisting. It tends to take force, more force then a Duroflex.)
  • Be the only vibration dampening factor (there is no isolation factor in most flex joints.)
Will the Duroflex still function? Absolutely! But instead of it being in top shape for 4 years or 8 years (we don't ultimately know the long term life of the Duroflex, only that it IS showing its durability everyday) you might get less life out of the joint.

As for ride quality, I think you would be surprised how much control arms contribute to ride quality. I've seen time and again comments like "control arms don't make a difference." However, we have hundreds of customers who would testify differently.

I didn't even realize the difference myself. Early on we sold a 6Pak kit with no control arms. Thinking customers would use stock arms.

We had a customer call and say it was the worst ride he ever had. Luckily he was local so we had him come in and saw that he installed another brand of control arms. Out of curiosity, we changed the customers arms in our shop. That was the ONLY change made.

That made an INCREDIBLE difference in the ride quality. Night and day. A lot of times the NVH of the road is transferred directly to the seat of your pants through your control arms.

The Duroflex control arms isolate the NVH, handling pot-holes and lousy roads like a Caddy (And off-road washboards like a Pre-Runner).

Is it the only factor in the ride quality of suspension? Absolutely not. Coils and shocks are a big factor too. But I never discount the value of the control arms.

Thanks again for the great questions!
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Old 03-18-2015, 01:22 PM   #17
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As for ride quality, I think you would be surprised how much control arms contribute to ride quality. I've seen time and again comments like "control arms don't make a difference." However, we have hundreds of customers who would testify differently.

I didn't even realize the difference myself. Early on we sold a 6Pak kit with no control arms. Thinking customers would use stock arms.

We had a customer call and say it was the worst ride he ever had. Luckily he was local so we had him come in and saw that he installed another brand of control arms. Out of curiosity, we changed the customers arms in our shop. That was the ONLY change made.

That made an INCREDIBLE difference in the ride quality. Night and day. A lot of times the NVH of the road is transferred directly to the seat of your pants through your control arms.

The Duroflex control arms isolate the NVH, handling pot-holes and lousy roads like a Caddy (And off-road washboards like a Pre-Runner).

Is it the only factor in the ride quality of suspension? Absolutely not. Coils and shocks are a big factor too. But I never discount the value of the control arms.

Thanks again for the great questions!


X2 This is very true. I had Skyjacker arms that use a bushing on one end and a heim on the other. They made a lot of noise and made a harsh ride. I noticed a HUGE difference when I installed Metalcloak control arms. Now very quiet and the joints soak up the bumps and pot holes in the road.
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Old 03-18-2015, 04:21 PM   #18
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Man you make these control arms sound so good I might just buy them and throw out my shocks...
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Old 03-18-2015, 04:34 PM   #19
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Naw, just throw away your coilovers and replace them with cinder blocks
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Old 03-18-2015, 04:49 PM   #20
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Man you make these control arms sound so good I might just buy them and throw out my shocks...
I don't get it... What do you expect Matson to do?? NOT tell you his product is good and list the benefits?? Give me a break...

Furthermore, (I have JJs on my suspension but...) I hear all the time from people changing from JJs to Duroflex joints that they notice an increase in ride comfort. It seems likely that there would be real world, verifiable reasons why this would be an accurate statement. Search Imped's Duroflex thread on JF. He seems pleased. And in this online community he's the hardest person to please I've ever seen.
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Old 03-18-2015, 04:55 PM   #21
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I don't get it... What do you expect Matson to do?? NOT tell you his product is good and list the benefits?? Give me a break...

Furthermore, (I have JJs on my suspension but...) I hear all the time from people changing from JJs to Duroflex joints that they notice an increase in ride comfort. It seems likely that there would be real world, verifiable reasons why this would be an accurate statement. Search Imped's Duroflex thread on JF. He seems pleased. And in this online community he's the hardest person to please I've ever seen.
Its all marketing... you mentioned Imped and how happy he is with his arms. Read this link and pay attention to what Imped said. Its also mostly placebo effect from people buying a poduct and wanting to feel they spent their money well.

https://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/wh...ms-182391.html
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Old 03-18-2015, 05:10 PM   #22
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Its all marketing... you mentioned Imped and how happy he is with his arms. Read this link and pay attention to what Imped said. Its also mostly placebo effect from people buying a poduct and wanting to feel they spent their money well.

https://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/wh...ms-182391.html
That thread is irrelevant as far as Imped's opinion of the Duroflex joints... He wrote those comments the year before he actually installed the DF joints on his rig...
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Old 03-18-2015, 05:19 PM   #23
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That thread is irrelevant as far as Imped's opinion of the Duroflex joints... He wrote those comments the year before he actually installed the DF joints on his rig...
Impeds opinion might have changed but the facts have not. JJs are wrapped in a NVH material and the duroflex joints are a NVH material as well. Matsonian said that MC joints will do all the work if paired with a JJ joint. How can the MC joiny be doing all the work if the JJ is wrapped around NVH absorbtion material as well? Seems like a marketing statement with no research.
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Old 03-18-2015, 05:25 PM   #24
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Coke!!!!

No!!!!

Pepsi!!!!!!


Arguably a useless argument, when you use what Imped has to say at different points in his build to bolster your arguments it's time to do some building of your own and argue YOUR opinion.
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Old 03-18-2015, 05:30 PM   #25
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Impeds opinion might have changed but the facts have not. JJs are wrapped in a NVH material and the duroflex joints are a NVH material as well. Matsonian said that MC joints will do all the work if paired with a JJ joint. How can the MC joiny be doing all the work if the JJ is wrapped around NVH absorbtion material as well? Seems like a marketing statement with no research.
The exact same NVH material?? Are you sure you're comparing apples to apples?? Speaking of statements with no research...
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Old 03-18-2015, 05:32 PM   #26
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Coke!!!!

No!!!!

Pepsi!!!!!!

Arguably a useless argument, when you use what Imped has to say at different points in his build to bolster your arguments it's time to do some building of your own and argue YOUR opinion.
I dont get what you are saying... have you taken apart a JJ? have you seen what it looks like in pieces? If you have then you would know that what Imped is saying is not a opinion but a fact...

I personally went from shitty clevis bushing suspention to 14 JJs on my arms and I feel no difference in terms of vibration. However they do flex with no binding now.
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Old 03-18-2015, 05:33 PM   #27
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Coke!!!!

No!!!!

Pepsi!!!!!!


Arguably a useless argument, when you use what Imped has to say at different points in his build to bolster your arguments it's time to do some building of your own and argue YOUR opinion.
I frankly don't care about the DF vs JJ argument. I started this only because it's unfair to jump on Matson for promoting his product and trying to provide as much information as he can about them
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Old 03-18-2015, 05:41 PM   #28
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I frankly don't care about the DF vs JJ argument. I started this only because it's unfair to jump on Matson for promoting his product and trying to provide as much information as he can about them
Matson said MC joints will do all the work if paired with a JJ. I dont feel like that is all true. Maybe the MC joint will do more work then the JJ... but certainaly not all.
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Old 03-18-2015, 05:54 PM   #29
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Matsonion means the resistance to the flex point is lower on MC joints than on JJ, this has been my personal experience also, though some JJs are tighter than others. In that respect, which joint flexes first, the MC joints will work harder.

That is simple physics.

The difference that creates the different flex point resistance is in the difference of how the joints are constructed.

That is also simple physics.
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Old 03-18-2015, 05:59 PM   #30
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Matsonion means the resistance to the flex point is lower on MC joints than on JJ, this has been my personal experience also, though some JJs are tighter than others. In that respect, which joint flexes first, the MC joints will work harder.

That is simple physics.

The difference that creates the different flex point resistance is in the difference of how the joints are constructed.

That is also simple physics.
I never denied that the MC joint will work harder. I am denying the fact that it will do ALL the work.

Funny you mentioned simple physics, im sitting in a physics class right now.

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