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Old 03-18-2015, 04:33 AM
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My alignment specs

Everything look alright here? Zone 4.25 on 33" Duratrace.

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Old 03-18-2015, 10:58 AM   #2
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Your .25 toe-in is a little excessive, the factory calls for .15 degrees.

There was no need to pay for your alignment, you can easily set your own toe-in which is the only thing that is adjustable on a newer TJ. The toe-in can be set in just a few minutes with nothing more than a tape measure, wrench, and a big pair of pliers used to rotate the tie-rod until you get the right amount of toe-in. And with a little care, your results would have been more accurate than what that shop provided. You don't have to measure degrees, you only have to set the toe-in so the fronts of the tires are 1/16" to 1/8" closer together than the rears of the tires are.

Here's a basic writeup on how to do it... Basic Jeep Front End Alignment

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Old 03-18-2015, 11:08 AM
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I actually did a late night driveway alignment the night before and ended up with the initial specs you'll see on the left. It was late, my wife was getting tired of helping , and then I just wanted to make sure it was done right at the shop. I was off quite a bit. Will that .10 more total toe-in be too much? Excessive tire wear?
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Old 03-18-2015, 11:22 AM
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Looking at the 2004 FSM it says .15 total toe in then under it it says (each front wheel). That's confusing.

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Old 03-18-2015, 11:30 AM   #5
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The left/right sides are not adjustable individually so it's only the total amount that you adjust for. The tie rod pulls both sides in our out.

Only with IFS type vehicles with separate l/r tie rods are the sides individually adjustable.
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Old 03-18-2015, 11:46 AM
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It's a little wierd that my initial settings were off by so much on each tire then isnt it? Okay so should I spin the tie Rod sleeve out a 1/4 or so? Less or more?
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Old 03-18-2015, 12:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
The left/right sides are not adjustable individually so it's only the total amount that you adjust for. The tie rod pulls both sides in our out.

Only with IFS type vehicles with separate l/r tie rods are the sides individually adjustable.
Respectfully, my thinking doesn't agree. You can adjust the left side independently by adjusting the drag link, the right side by adjusting the tie rod. Recognizing that adjusting the tie rod will throw off the setting of the left side, requiring it be re-adjusted for the new position of the tie rod.

Your statement is true in the sense that rack and pinions can be adjusted without affecting one another, sorta like our left side can.

My opinion and life experience with tire wear is that the more toe you have, the worse the tires will wear- period. The unfortunate trade off is that having some toe-in provides better straight line tracking. I'm cheap, I like good tire wear, I'll give up a little elsewhere to get it. I can keep it between the lines. Imo, ideal toe is going to be .05-.1. Unfortunately, that's darn near splitting hairs since resolution on that machine is only .05║...

If anyone knows the thread and pitch of the tie rod and drag link, I could tell you how much to turn it/them to make an adjustment (if you wanted to). Really need to know the angles that the rod and link are sitting at relative to horizontal, also (yeah, it's getting deep). I would be hard pressed to suggest going and turning it some arbitrary amount.
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Old 03-18-2015, 12:48 PM   #8
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Looking at the picture above, adjusting the drag link is only going to effect the steering wheel alignment as the tie rod goes to a set point on the drag link bar that point of connection offers some flex or movement.
Have someone hold the steering so it will not turn and twist the drag link. Both tires will move together in the same direction.
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Old 03-18-2015, 12:57 PM   #9
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Respectfully, my thinking doesn't agree. You can adjust the left side independently by adjusting the drag link, the right side by adjusting the tie rod. Recognizing that adjusting the tie rod will throw off the setting of the left side, requiring it be re-adjusted for the new position of the tie rod.

Your statement is true in the sense that rack and pinions can be adjusted without affecting one another, sorta like our left side can.

My opinion and life experience with tire wear is that the more toe you have, the worse the tires will wear- period. The unfortunate trade off is that having some toe-in provides better straight line tracking. I'm cheap, I like good tire wear, I'll give up a little elsewhere to get it. I can keep it between the lines. Imo, ideal toe is going to be .05-.1. Unfortunately, that's darn near splitting hairs since resolution on that machine is only .05║...

If anyone knows the thread and pitch of the tie rod and drag link, I could tell you how much to turn it/them to make an adjustment (if you wanted to). Really need to know the angles that the rod and link are sitting at relative to horizontal, also (yeah, it's getting deep). I would be hard pressed to suggest going and turning it some arbitrary amount.
Your theory only holds water until you drive it. If you tried to actually set a TJ's toe differently for the left and right sides, the steering will be biased towards the side with the least toe-in at which point it will self-center between the two sides and you'll then be driving straight ahead with the steering wheel clocked towards the side with the least amount of toe-in.

With just one tie rod that connects both sides, you can't truly adjust the toe-in of the two sides independently as can be done with a vehicle with IFS which of course has two tie rods. It may look that way on the rack to someone inexperienced setting the alignment for a solid axle but that's just how it is.
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Old 03-18-2015, 12:58 PM   #10
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pvanshc- You're right, absolutely- I got my link and rod names mixed up in a couple places. It would seem to me logically that #5 should be called the drag link as it's just along for the ride, being "drug" along by the tie rod. I've always gotten them mixed up as it just doesn't make sense to me.

And, I just missed the 30 minute cut-off for editing the post- it's wrong forever! lol.
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Old 03-18-2015, 01:20 PM   #11
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Yes and no- that's 2 different conditions for the discussion: static and dynamic. Both IFS and Drag link systems will self-center when moving leading to the steering wheel clocking you mention. In the dynamic condition, neither can be adjusted independently as the system will always self-center- we're strictly talking about total toe in that condition assuming you let the steering self-center.

I openly admit all I've ever replaced is a tie rod end on a solid axle front (F250). That will change soon as I noticed a slight clank in the steering wheel just yesterday- woohoo. I have done 2 rack and pinion and tie rod replacements. None of which did I set the toe on- took them to a shop. However, I have hours and hours of suspension set up, measuring, head scratching, and seat time on my race quad, which has more adjustability than most anything we see on the street- caster, camber, toe, and wheel base. But, by no means do I claim to be a suspension or alignment expert.
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Old 03-18-2015, 03:29 PM   #12
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NRath, it is simply misleading to refer to the left and right sides being independently adjustable which is not true for a solid axle design. Your experience with non-solid axle designs is simply not applicable for the TJ's solid axle design.

A suspension or alignment expert would realize that.
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Old 03-18-2015, 04:32 PM   #13
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Could we agree that the left side can be done independently and the right side cannot?
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Old 03-18-2015, 08:17 PM   #14
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And I always thought that you couldn't adjust toe settings independently on any vehicle because that effects total toe which is where it all counts.....now of course if you want to "center" the steering wheel......use the bar that runs wheel to wheel for total toe then center the steering wheel by using the adjuster up near the steering box.
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Old 03-18-2015, 08:18 PM   #15
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Could we agree that the left side can be done independently and the right side cannot?
No, at least not by me.
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Old 03-18-2015, 09:24 PM   #16
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10-4, I'll take my lashes for that gracefully! Lol! On the rack, they can't be truly adjusted independently if you have to go back and tweak the other side.

I had my son run the math on my cell phone on the way home. It looks like 1/8" total toe measured at the od of a 32" tire will be about .224 degrees per side. I like your 1/16 - 1/8" numbers there, JB!
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:07 PM   #17
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At some random time last night it hit me that the OP stated his tire size in the first post and it wasn't 32". Measuring to the outside diameter of a 33" tire with 1/8" total toe will be .217║ per side, 1/16" total toe will cut the angle in half.

Now, if I could just understand why my motorcycle tire is wearing funny, life would be good!
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Old 03-19-2015, 02:28 PM   #18
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Now, if I could just understand why my motorcycle tire is wearing funny, life would be good![/QUOTE]

Lopsided butt cheeks, forces motorcycle to lean to one side

Wheels parallel?

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