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Old 10-23-2019, 08:51 PM
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Question Noxious Exhaust Smell - Diagnosis?

Hi Ladies and Gents,
I just got my Jeep back as my main vehicle. It is 2002 TJ 4L.
She runs fine but "feels" slightly off.

The smell coming from the exhaust is very strong in a burn your nose and your throat kind of way. There is absolutely NO SMOKE of any color coming out when running or starting cold. Nor when under load or stomping on the gas. (as I tend to do) However there is an unusual amount of moisture spitting out the tailpipe.

In 2005 and again around 2008 the Oxygen sensor had to be replaced. Both times it had simply failed. Other than that I have had no issues other than the normal oil leaks one sees in the 4L Jeep engines. She just passed California Emissions without any concerns last year.

I have two thoughts in my mind as to what may be wrong.
Oxygen sensor is starting to fail again?
or
Catalytic converter is starting to go?

I am curious what ya'll think. I'm not in position to take her in to the shop right now.

The water issue is also concerning. Maybe some water in the tank. I was also thinking about something I read recently about Ethanol based Fuel. That they can induce or contribute to water in the fuel system? Not sure if that is true. But I have gotten a fuel treatment to "supposedly" help get rid of water in the system. I have no idea if they actually work or not.

On a good note. I spent all day refurbishing the hardtop. All new seals and scrubbed clean as a whistle inside and out. I feel as if I accomplished something that needed to be done after putting thousands of off road miles on her for the past 17+ years I've owned her.

Cheers,
Nixx

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Old 10-23-2019, 10:42 PM   #2
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1st the Ethanol in your fuel will actually absorb and burn off any water in your fuel, by adding Something to absorb water your just putting more Ethanol in the tank.
2nd you mentioned multiple O2 sensor failing and usual 4.0 oil leaks, did you do any gasket replacement and if so did you use a sensor safe RTV sealer? Non sensor safe RTV will kill O2 sensor's when the vapors are drawn in through the PCV system and burned.
Just a thought.
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Old 10-24-2019, 05:05 PM
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@bubbabud no gaskets have been replaced yet. So no worries there. I will be replacing the valve cover gasket soon. I'll be sure to use the correct sealer. Thanks for that. I had no idea the sealers could cause such an issue with O2 sensors.

I have noticed she is getting horrible mileage. I saw a thread elsewhere last night that said that anyone of those O2 sensors going bad would cause that problem and might not even set off the diagnostic light. I think it would be best just to replace all 4 sensors with the recommended NGK brand.
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Old 10-24-2019, 07:28 PM   #4
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A bad catalytic converter can definitely cause a rotten egg/sulphur smell. A bad upstream O2 sensor or two can easily cause a dramatic loss of mpg and power. Go with either NTK or NGK O2 sensors, they're the same from different channels. Just make sure to avoid Bosch.
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Old 10-28-2019, 02:29 AM   #5
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Any check engine light? I just had this same exact issue and finally fixed it
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:38 AM
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Any check engine light? I just had this same exact issue and finally fixed it
Nope. No check engine light at all. The two times I had an O2 sensor go bad, only the first failure set off the CEL. The second time an O2 sensor went bad it was only caught on a whim when I got the engine checked for another minor issue.

What did you do to fix your issue Josh?
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Old 10-29-2019, 05:56 PM   #7
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Go with either NTK or NGK O2 sensors, they're the same from different channels.
Could you provide a link to a source for a NGK oxygen sensor?
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Old 10-29-2019, 08:08 PM   #8
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A bad catalytic converter can definitely cause a rotten egg/sulphur smell. A bad upstream O2 sensor or two can easily cause a dramatic loss of mpg and power. Go with either NTK or NGK O2 sensors, they're the same from different channels. Just make sure to avoid Bosch.
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Could you provide a link to a source for a NGK oxygen sensor?
Every time I mention NGK O2 sensors in the same breath as NTK you post that bullshit. Even you should be able to find an NGK O2 sensor, here's just one example... https://www.amazon.com/NGK-23139-Oxy...ype=automotive. Just because you have a hard-on trying claim there's no such thing as an NGK any time I post a recommendation to go only with NTK or NGK O2 sensors. NTK and NGK O2 sensors are the same product, they are just coming through different distribution channels. It's time you got a life rather than being a constant little yappy heel nipper.
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Old 10-30-2019, 01:27 PM   #9
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Any check engine light? I just had this same exact issue and finally fixed it
Nope. No check engine light at all. The two times I had an O2 sensor go bad, only the first failure set off the CEL. The second time an O2 sensor went bad it was only caught on a whim when I got the engine checked for another minor issue.

What did you do to fix your issue Josh?
Well the difference is I have a 2.4 liter. However, I had really bad strong exhaust coming out the back. The root was I had a cracked exhaust manifold which caused upstream 02 sensor to go bad which caused pinging like crazy and misfire from the bad 02 sensor. Which ultimately destroyed the cat. When I pulled the cat out it was completely hollowed out and the upstream sensor on the exhaust manifold was white from the air leak. So yours sounds like if the manifold is not cracked either way upstream sensor may be bad and ur cat is going or even hollowed out
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Old 10-30-2019, 06:08 PM   #10
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Every time I mention NGK O2 sensors in the same breath as NTK you post that bullshit. Even you should be able to find an NGK O2 sensor..
NGK does not manufacture oxygen sensors. It never has. The nipper guilty of posting misinformation is you. Despite the fact that I have taken the time to courteously provide you with accurate information in the past.

If you are so sure that I am wrong, show me a NGK document that supports your claim. (The average fifth-grader would know better that to cite an Amazon listing as a source.)
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Old 10-30-2019, 06:16 PM   #11
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NGK does not manufacture oxygen sensors. It never has. The nipper guilty of posting misinformation is you. Despite the fact that I have taken the time to courteously provide you with accurate information in the past.

If you are so sure that I am wrong, show me a NGK document that supports your claim. (The average fifth-grader would know better that to cite an Amazon listing as a source.)
You are simply not getting it. Read what I said... here it is AGAIN for you... "NTK and NGK O2 sensors are the same product, they are just coming through different distribution channels.".

If you see an NGK sensor for sale, and it's not just Amazon that sells them, it's as safe to use as its NTK counterpart is. That's my point. I don't really care if NTK makes them and NGK just puts their name on them. It doesn't effing matter. Either is fine, which is the point you would rather ignore so you can continue making an ass out of yourself. You need to get a life and stop going after every little thing you can spin into something it's not.

I'm done here, whether you can understand that or not. And I know what that will be. You won't because you don't want to. Simple bone headedness.

And since you're apparently unaware, I'll clue you in that NGK owns NTK. https://www.ngkntk.co.jp/english/corporate/brand/ "NGK SPARK PLUG CO., LTD. produces IC packages, sensors for exhaust gas cleaning, ceramic tools and other items under the "NTK" brand."
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Old 10-30-2019, 06:24 PM   #12
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You are simply not getting it. Read what I said... here it is AGAIN for you... "NTK and NGK O2 sensors are the same product, they are just coming through different distribution channels.".

If you see an NGK sensor for sale, and it's not just Amazon that sells them, it's as safe to use as its NTK counterpart is. That's my point. I don't really care if NTK makes them and NGK just puts their name on them. It doesn't effing matter. Either is fine, which is the point you would rather ignore so you can continue making an ass out of yourself. You need to get a life and stop going after every little thing you can spin into something it's not.

I'm done here, whether you can understand that or not. And I know what that will be. You won't because you don't want to. Simple bone headedness.

And since you're apparently unaware, I'll clue you in that NGK owns NTK. https://www.ngkntk.co.jp/english/corporate/brand/ "NGK SPARK PLUG CO., LTD. produces IC packages, sensors for exhaust gas cleaning, ceramic tools and other items under the "NTK" brand."
Jerry;

Ignore the troll. Don't let him get to you. You post great info to those that choose to listen
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Old 10-30-2019, 06:43 PM   #13
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I'm done here, whether you can understand that or not.
I was hoping that you could at least show us an oxygen sensor in a NGK box before you threw in the towel. If there really is an oxygen sensor sold under the NGK brand, it just should not be that hard.
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Old 11-10-2019, 12:56 PM   #14
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How did you fix your problem?
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Old 11-11-2019, 11:11 AM
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@mimillerus I got new upstream O2 sensors to start.
Unfortunately Bank 1 Sensor 1 is so completly "welded" to the exhaust, I am unable to remove it. I am going to have to remove the intake manifold to complete the task. And I'm not up to doing that at this time. So my problem is not fixed, it's not as as it was a couple weeks ago. I've been driving it more that it has been driven in a few holes.

But it still smells bad.
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Old 11-11-2019, 11:26 AM   #16
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probably not very good gas mileage? I am still dealing with a po132 code and intermittent rough running at speeds under 45. not always rough, sometimes fine. that is with a new upstream sensor. mine might be a cpm.
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Old 11-12-2019, 01:38 AM   #17
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@mimillerus I got new upstream O2 sensors to start.
Unfortunately Bank 1 Sensor 1 is so completly "welded" to the exhaust, I am unable to remove it. I am going to have to remove the intake manifold to complete the task. And I'm not up to doing that at this time. So my problem is not fixed, it's not as as it was a couple weeks ago. I've been driving it more that it has been driven in a few holes.

But it still smells bad.
Ur gonna need a cat. All the fumes that a working cat holds back are coming out cuz the cat is bad.
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:34 PM
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☹️ bad cat is no bueno. Going to have to have this investigated.
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Old 11-13-2019, 07:33 PM   #19
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NGK does not manufacture oxygen sensors. It never has. The nipper guilty of posting misinformation is you. Despite the fact that I have taken the time to courteously provide you with accurate information in the past.

If you are so sure that I am wrong, show me a NGK document that supports your claim. (The average fifth-grader would know better that to cite an Amazon listing as a source.)
Jeez dude, it takes all of 15 seconds to google NGK 02 sensors and see its NGK/NTK . The NTK is the Technical ceramics line and NGK is the plug line. Same company, different lines of products, same corporation. Think Ford,Lincoln, Merc...same nightmare...err, I mean vehicles,different box.Ok to play the devils advocate your not driving a Jeep, its a Fiat.
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Old 11-14-2019, 09:11 AM
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NGK and NTK are one and the same company. I don't know how or why this has become a point argument. So to clear this up for anyone not sure. Here is one of the O2 sensors I just purchased.

Cheers
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Old 11-14-2019, 09:44 AM   #21
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NGK and NTK are one and the same company. I don't know how or why this has become a point argument. So to clear this up for anyone not sure. Here is one of the O2 sensors I just purchased.

Cheers
Neither "NGK" nor "NTK" are companies. In the US, they are brands owned by the "NGK Spark Plug Co, LTD."

Fact: there are no NGK-branded oxygen sensors nor are there "different distribution channels" as claimed. The NGK Spark Plug Co, LTD markets sensors under the NTK brand.
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Old 11-14-2019, 09:50 AM   #22
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Jeez dude, it takes all of 15 seconds to google NGK 02 sensors and see its NGK/NTK .
Fake news is easy to find. Accurate information sometimes take a bit longer. There are no NGK oxygen sensors.

If they are so easy to find, please post a picture of a NGK oxygen sensor in original packaging. No time limit; take all the time you need.
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Old 11-22-2019, 01:52 AM   #23
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I finally got mine running good. Not sure what did it but no CEM and smooth running. checked and cleaned all the grounds I could find, checked harnesses, found one suspicious junction. pulled cpm connectors and sprayed with connector cleaner. checked a few circuits for continuity. Well anyway I started it up and no codes for a week.
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Old 11-22-2019, 06:50 PM   #24
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NGK and NTK are one and the same company. I don't know how or why this has become a point argument. So to clear this up for anyone not sure. Here is one of the O2 sensors I just purchased.

Cheers
because tangofox007 is just an A-hole who likes to stir the pot....thanks for posting the pic
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