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Old 08-03-2019, 03:06 PM
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rear brake job from hell

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A week ago on the way home form work at 1:30a my dside, rear wheel cylinder blew. Didn't know until I got work the next day thinking the brake pedal felt weird, checked the fluid level and was shocked to see it nearly empty, had to be towed home.
I have now completed the new shoes, springs and turned drum installment. Adjusted and bleed, although I only bleed the dside. Pedal feels great, ready to go for a test drive, start my rig and the ebrake lite on the dash is on. Ebrake not on - WTF?
Recheck fluid level all is well, pull brake on and off, no joy.
I have:
removed the fuse for the cluster
disconnected the battery
readjusted the brakes
Checked the FSM
Checked my Haines book
consulted with a dude from my wheelin' group
consulted with a dude at the auto parts store
checked the internet
BANGED MY HEAD AGAINST CONCRET
PULLED MY HAIR OUT
Now I'm reaching out to the actual TJ owners

Please can someone help me fix this! I own this TJ and an XJ, right now the XJ won't start and the TJ won't stop - I really need a working car.
Thanks in advance

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Old 08-03-2019, 03:38 PM
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I forgot to say '99 2.5 manual 99k raised 2" running 31 Mudders

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Old 08-03-2019, 09:32 PM   #3
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I had the same thing happen. But my brakes were not releasing correctly. The brake light was constantly on. Put all new hardware in. Done these a million times. Sure as shit it was bad flexible brake lines from the hard line to the pistons. They didn't leak or look bad. But seems any pressure problem will trigger that light. Maybe that helps you.
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Old 08-03-2019, 10:09 PM
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when you got the new lines installed and bleed, did the light go off all by its self?

I didn't bleed the system starting with the pside, I just did the dside, since that was where the problem occurred. Tried to bleed pside this am but couldn't get the bleeder value open, off to HF to get correct tool.
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Old 08-03-2019, 10:26 PM   #5
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If the system got too low on fluid, you might have to do a full flush/bleed and bench bleed the master
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Old 08-03-2019, 10:28 PM   #6
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To properly bleed the brakes you need to do the passenger side too....

Start at pass rear, then drivers rear, pass front and then finally drivers front in that order, keep an eye on the master cylinder and don't let it run dry.
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Old 08-03-2019, 10:35 PM   #7
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I am not saying this is what is happening in this case, BUT!! I always do brake parts replacement on an axle. What happens to the D side rear, I also do the P side rear. If I replace a wheel cylinder on the left, I also replace the right. Same with brake shoes, turning drums, replacing springs and hardware, and/or hoses. The passenger side has been on the vehicle the same length of time the drivers side was and just because it didn't blow at the same time, doesn't mean that it is in good enough shape to work well with the brand new D-side one. I won't replace all the fronts just because I did the rears, but L to R, I always do the same to BOTH sides and have never been disappointed.
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Old 08-04-2019, 02:51 AM
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Currently I do not have a running car, am paying for a rental until I can sort this out. Having said that, the plan is to do both rear brake jobs, have all the parts. BUT I'd like to have a working vehicle, so I can stop throwing away $ on a rental.
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Old 08-04-2019, 07:42 AM   #9
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The brake light went out by its self after replacing the line. I used the hose into a bottle with fluid in it to bleed the brakes. Worked like a champ. If you let the reservoir get too empty then you will need to bleed them all again.
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Old 08-04-2019, 10:41 AM   #10
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Currently I do not have a running car, am paying for a rental until I can sort this out.
When you opened one side of the brake circuit, it's highly likely that you introduced air into the opposite side. Bleed both sides and see what that does for the situation.
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Old 08-04-2019, 05:52 PM
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This am, I bleed the brakes starting with r pside, r dside, f pside, f dside. I the front pside had the brake pedal go all the way to the floor, obviously air in there.
Was all excited since that HAD to be the problem. Nope start the rig and damn brake light is still on in the dash.
I'm going to do the bleed again, starting her and pressing the pedal, if this doesn't fix it I'd like to know the thoughts of what the next step is?
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Old 08-04-2019, 06:18 PM   #12
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As I mentioned above, if you let the master drain too much, you might have to bench bleed it.
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Old 08-04-2019, 06:37 PM   #13
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Don’t know if this will help you, but I had the light come on after a hard stop. Brake fluid was pretty near empty. As I had recently done the front brakes, I replaced everything in back. Could not get that light off. Poured I don’t know how many bottles of fluid through it. Finally replaced all the bleeding screws with self bleeders. I can look up the part numbers if you need them. Rebled, only this time a whole lot of gunk came out the right front side. I don’t know if the self bleeders helped or not, but they certainly made it easier. Light turned off shortly afterwards when I made a hard stop.
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Old 08-04-2019, 10:36 PM   #14
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After you bled all the brakes do you have a working brake pedal now ?

Maybe the sending unit for the brake light might be bad if your brakes are working normally now.
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:41 AM   #15
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I think the proportioning valve has gotten "off center". Do a search on this site about how to do the procedure for resetting it. There is a guy from Black Magic Brakes (that will remained unnamed bc I'm sure he is extremely busy) that has posted the information.

Side note and a disclaimer. Safe to drive? Well, it will stop but not as good as it should be. Use common sense and keep the safety of EVERYONE in mind if you do so. Of course your mileage mat vary.
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Old 08-05-2019, 10:00 AM
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After you bled all the brakes do you have a working brake pedal now ?

Maybe the sending unit for the brake light might be bad if your brakes are working normally now.
Are you asking me or LovingMaui?
I had a working brake pedal, after the the first bleed and starting the car. I continue to have a working brake pedal, very firm.

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proportioning valve has gotten "off center"
Stupid question, what's a proportioning valve and where's it located?

Lovesleddin: what made you look at replacing the lines?
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Old 08-05-2019, 10:22 AM   #17
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jpenvy, I couldn't figure out the problem since everything checked out, so I went through several jeep blogs looking for an answer. I found a few people in the same scenario. I guess the interior of these flexible brake lines breakdown and cause issues like yours and mine. I noticed my right front caliper was not releasing properly even though it all brand new. So I thought they are cheap enough that it would be good preventative maintenance and "boom" light went out and never had and issue since. It may not fix your issue but maybe it would.
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Old 08-05-2019, 11:57 AM
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Thanks loveslidden.

I just went out and did the bleed with the engine running. Now b4 engine brake pedal firm almost hard. Turn on engine, with the assist, the pedal firm.
Engine on, r pside, pedal didn't go 1/2 way, but never seemed to get as firm with engine off. Ditto for r dside. However, when I got to f pside the pedal went all the way to the floor making a sound as it hit bottom, few more pumps and it came up 1/2 way, like the others not firm. In fact it felt like I could have kept pumping it.
Back under the car the fluid in the cup is dirty. Interesting since all of the old fluid was removed from the system 3 bleeds ago on the project. Is it possible there is something wrong with that caliper? Yesterday when I did the bleed on it the pedal went all the way to the floor also.

Scratching head.
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:27 AM   #19
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what's a proportioning valve and where's it located?
The proportioning valve is usually below the master cylinder, kinda looks like a small brass block, tube/ line in, tubes/ lines out. This valve limits pressure to the rear brakes to keep them from locking up to soon.
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Old 08-06-2019, 11:42 AM   #20
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Do you have ABS?
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Old 08-06-2019, 06:18 PM   #21
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I believe that Stranger has the correct answer here. Look at the valve he is talking about and you will see a plug in on it. Disconnect that plug and see if the light goes out. If so, then follow the procedure as was stated.


Best of luck
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Old 08-07-2019, 04:48 AM
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Do you have ABS?
Interesting question. I have a very stripped down TJ. There is a place on the dash for an ABS indicator light, however it has never come on, because I'm pretty sure I don't have them.
However, the rear wheel cylinders ARE ABS, the parts dude sold me the non-ABS ones but when I got the brakes apart, the parts didn't match, back to the story, he says, "Oh you have ABS."
Ah no I don't as far as I know.

Is there a way to tell?
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:52 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpenvy View Post
Interesting question. I have a very stripped down TJ. There is a place on the dash for an ABS indicator light, however it has never come on, because I'm pretty sure I don't have them.
However, the rear wheel cylinders ARE ABS, the parts dude sold me the non-ABS ones but when I got the brakes apart, the parts didn't match, back to the story, he says, "Oh you have ABS."
Ah no I don't as far as I know.

Is there a way to tell?
under the power brake booster and master brake cylinder will be a tray that looks a lot like the battery tray on the opposite sided. If it is empty NO abs.
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Old 08-07-2019, 08:21 AM   #24
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Odd, I just picked up pads for my '05 TJ and the question never came up for abs or non. I'll have to check the parts store search widget to see if there is a difference.

Edit: Follow up, no changes between abs and non for at least the '05 TJ. Only Metallic vs semi vs ceramic.
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Old 08-08-2019, 01:56 PM   #25
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Your rear axle may have been swapped out at some point with an ABS one. This does not mean you have ABS. You would also need the control module and all of the wiring and stuff. Doesn't really matter, you just need to get the right parts as may have been discovered while buying the wheel cylinder.

On to you issue. IMHO, like a few others have said, it is probably your proportioning valve acting up or stuck. It is probably stuck to one side and not regulating the front and rear pressures correctly. Or, you may have a bubble in it that won't pass thru.
Sometimes you can free the piston up by giving them a few nice clacks/wacks with a small wrench. The piston inside is centered by very weak springs and if it wedges, it can get stuck. Crud will jamb it up too. You may be able to disassemble it and clean it to get it to work correctly. Sometimes you can remove the switch and put a wire into it and move the piston. You will them need to bleed the entire system. Otherwise, you may need a new one. And of course, this may not be your problem at all.
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Old 08-08-2019, 02:41 PM   #26
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Odd, I just picked up pads for my '05 TJ and the question never came up for abs or non.
How is that odd?
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Old 08-08-2019, 03:52 PM   #27
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I followed that up after

Odd in that I never heard there was a difference in ABS verses non ABS pads. And my review of O O O O'riles Auto for a 05 shows no difference. Hence odd.
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Old 08-08-2019, 06:04 PM   #28
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Odd in that I never heard there was a difference in ABS verses non ABS pads.
There is an outstanding chance that you never heard of a difference because there is no difference. Nothing odd about that.
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Old 08-09-2019, 06:07 AM   #29
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I followed that up after

Odd in that I never heard there was a difference in ABS verses non ABS pads. And my review of O O O O'riles Auto for a 05 shows no difference. Hence odd.

I think the confusion might be that the PO is referring to the wheel cylinder and not pads. I've never looked, but maybe there is a difference.
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Old 08-09-2019, 06:35 AM   #30
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I'd start by bleeding the brakes, in fact I would bleed all 4. Overkill, maybe. It sounds like air might have gotten into the system. If you do bleed them take a rubber mallet and tap each wheel cylinder and caliper gently to release any trapped air which may be in them.

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