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Old 11-10-2015, 07:27 PM
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Ring & Pinion

Hey everybody, been lurking a while but can't find an answer for my situation.

Ive got a 98 TJ 4.0 5 speed with the D30/35 combo running 3.07 gears.

I want to re gear and install some tru-tracs. My goal is to run 31" tires and be able to tow a small camper or utility trailer without working the clutch.

So I found a D44 rear housing out of a tj and plan on building it up in the garage over the winter. I'm looking at 4.10 gears for the swap.

I would like to run at least Dana Spicer brand R&P for the rear since it sees the most use. When looking at gear sets online the only Dana 4.10 D44 set is for a 00' Tj. The G2 brand and others don't seem to differentiate. Is there a reason for the specific year on the Dana brand or can I assume all D44 Tj gears are universal?

Thanks for the help!

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Old 11-10-2015, 07:43 PM   #2
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Rockauto shows Dana part #2020425 as fitting any Wrangler from '87-'06.

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Old 11-10-2015, 07:44 PM   #3
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I am having this set installed.
https://www.4lowparts.com/shop/produ...s/ring-pinion/
The shop told me that sierra makes good r&p sets too.
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:45 PM   #4
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Should be universal, but beware that the Dana gears assume a different carrier for x ≤3.73≥ x. Meaning if you have 3.07s, your carrier will only take Dana gears up to 3.73. If you had 4.10s, your carrier would only take higher than 3.73. 3rd party gear suppliers will sell "thick cut" / "thin cut" gears of each size to match each carrier.

If you go Dana gears, you will need to pick up another carrier as well.

*Side note, you may be able to save some $$ by snagging axles off a junked 4cyl. They had D30/D35 at 4.10 from the factory. If you can bolt the axles in yourself, it would probably be cheaper to buy them than to buy gears. DEFINITELY cheaper if you were going pay someone else to install said gears.
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Old 11-11-2015, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firehawkcpo View Post
I am having this set installed.
https://www.4lowparts.com/shop/produ...s/ring-pinion/
The shop told me that sierra makes good r&p sets too.
I do like the price point on those. Its my understanding that the install job has far more to do with how long the gears last vs their manufacturer.

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Originally Posted by C.L. View Post
Should be universal, but beware that the Dana gears assume a different carrier for x ≤3.73≥ x. Meaning if you have 3.07s, your carrier will only take Dana gears up to 3.73. If you had 4.10s, your carrier would only take higher than 3.73. 3rd party gear suppliers will sell "thick cut" / "thin cut" gears of each size to match each carrier.

If you go Dana gears, you will need to pick up another carrier as well.

*Side note, you may be able to save some $$ by snagging axles off a junked 4cyl. They had D30/D35 at 4.10 from the factory. If you can bolt the axles in yourself, it would probably be cheaper to buy them than to buy gears. DEFINITELY cheaper if you were going pay someone else to install said gears.
Thats new info for me. I knew the carrier size changed at 3.73, but didn't know you could buy thick cut gears to keep the original carrier. I plan on installing the tru tracs so they are already sized for the >3.73 range I believe.

Thanks for the info! Time to start putting some gears together.
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Old 11-11-2015, 06:43 PM   #6
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For what type of conditions have you selected Truetrac LSDs? I used to run front & rear Truetracs.
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:23 PM   #7
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I'll second the Revolution Gear sets. They set up easy and are quiet. I've installed 3 sets of them and none have had any issues.
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
For what type of conditions have you selected Truetrac LSDs? I used to run front & rear Truetracs.
Well, I want them more for simplicity overall. This is a daily driver and I don't plan on putting anything bigger than 31" tires or a 2 inch lift. I want reliability and drive-ability to be somewhat maintained. Where we live gets quite a bit of snow and so getting to the slopes reliably is also paramount. I do plan on running chains when necessary as well.

Selectable lockers are expensive, and I'd rather not mess with on board air, wiring, or cable actuators.

How does all that sound regarding the use of the true tracs? 4 Wheeling wise: I don't plan on doing any rock climbing. I'd rather go places and see things, so its more of an overlanding style vehicle for me. I've read a ton of reviews and am familiar with the breaking technique to use these things. I just don't see a wheel lifting off the ground as something that will happen very often.

I'm definitely open to opinions and ideas. I'm all ears!


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Originally Posted by hosejockey61 View Post
I'll second the Revolution Gear sets. They set up easy and are quiet. I've installed 3 sets of them and none have had any issues.
Thanks for the reco! I think the $100 difference between the dana spicer gears is a pretty good incentive as well.
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Old 11-11-2015, 10:28 PM   #9
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Truetracs would be ideal for your stated intended uses.
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Old 01-28-2016, 09:00 PM
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So I've finally accumulated all the parts and started tearing down a donor D30 in the garage. Below are details about the donor axle that I found odd. Skip to the bottom for my questions if you'd like.

There were a few odd things I noticed during disassembly...

The Pinion had a chipped tooth near the top of one of the teeth. I would think this might suggest it was incorrectly assembled. I would like to think that this axle has never been taken apart since it was at the factory. I picked it up on craigslist. It was still open, and with 4.10 gearing already so I assumed it was from a 4 cyl tj and was looking forward to having a good starting point for shim stacking with the new gears.

The carrier bearing caps had the factory stamps, but were installed upside down while on the correct sides of the carrier, according to the stamps. The stamps were "V"s, horizontal and vertical. I figure I'll put the caps on by themselves and look closer at the mating surfaces to see if there are any major irregularities.

The carrier had shims, though the carrier bearing preload seemed very low. The carrier came out pretty easily.

The pinion had a crush sleeve, and no shims for either inner or outer bearing.

The Spicer manual I've been using only has instructions for shimming the pinion preload. I understand now that the LP D30 axles have a crush sleeve, which should be replaced every time its opened up.


My question's:

With a crush sleeve, I don't need to worry about pinion pre load until final assembly when I can throw the new crush sleeve in. Is this correct?

Also with a crush sleeve, I can still shim the inner pinion bearing to achieve correct pinion depth. Is this also correct?

Thanks again for the help! This is definitely a good learning experience.
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Old 02-16-2016, 07:37 PM
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Working on the D44 now...

So the D30 is complete and ready to be put in the jeep...

I'm just starting on the D44 that I bought from a guy as an empty housing. I'm dry fitting the carrier to get a rough estimate on how many carrier bearing shims I'll need and it seems like a lot... with the D30 I only used maybe a total of .080" worth of shims for the carrier bearings. At first glance with the D44 it looks like i'll need almost .250" worth of shims! The rebuild kit i'm using only provided .135" worth.

I'm curious is this is pretty normal? Seems pretty excessive. I re checked the part numbers on the carrier (TruTrac) and the carrier bearings. Everything seems correct. Am I missing something here???


Here's a link for a couple pics.
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Old 02-16-2016, 10:21 PM   #12
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Nevermind...carry on folks
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98 TJ 5.7 Hemi, 545RFE, G2 D44, HP30, 4.10s & ARBs, RE 4.5 LA, 35 in MTRs on 15x10 alloys, Gen Right G3 Aluminum fenders/rear flares, Warn 9.5 CTi w/ Amsteel Blue, Premier Welder, Savvy rockers, Rampage top, a few other goodies..
Link to build thread..http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/s...rsion-1277803/
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Old 02-17-2016, 07:55 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SansFeeling View Post
At first glance with the D44 it looks like i'll need almost .250" worth of shims! The rebuild kit i'm using only provided .135" worth.

I'm curious is this is pretty normal? Seems pretty excessive. I re checked the part numbers on the carrier (TruTrac) and the carrier bearings. Everything seems correct. Am I missing something here???
Sounds normal. When I regeared my rear for the 2nd time (had a set of correctly installed G2 gears eat themselves...) I initially had a laugh at the pack of ginormous shims that came with the master rebuild kit. At first glance, they just looked like a bunch of identical aircraft carrier deck bolt washers someone put in there as a joke, but some investigation with a micrometer revealed that they were in fact shims that ranged from 0.120" to 0.150". The original carrier had some thick spacers to protect the paper thin shims, and you swapped out the thin ones for fine adjustment. Once we found the measurements for the final backlash/contact patch/preload, we were able to trade out the guard spacer and a handful of tiny shims for correctly sized new guard spacers and maybe one shim. It made wrestling the carrier back in without destroying shims much easier.

Sounds like you might need some guard spacers to start with. If you can find a big pack of the multi-sized ones it will really save you some headache on the final setup.
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Old 02-17-2016, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by C.L. View Post
Sounds normal. When I regeared my rear for the 2nd time (had a set of correctly installed G2 gears eat themselves...) I initially had a laugh at the pack of ginormous shims that came with the master rebuild kit. At first glance, they just looked like a bunch of identical aircraft carrier deck bolt washers someone put in there as a joke, but some investigation with a micrometer revealed that they were in fact shims that ranged from 0.120" to 0.150". The original carrier had some thick spacers to protect the paper thin shims, and you swapped out the thin ones for fine adjustment. Once we found the measurements for the final backlash/contact patch/preload, we were able to trade out the guard spacer and a handful of tiny shims for correctly sized new guard spacers and maybe one shim. It made wrestling the carrier back in without destroying shims much easier.

Sounds like you might need some guard spacers to start with. If you can find a big pack of the multi-sized ones it will really save you some headache on the final setup.
Thanks for the advice! I've been tearing my hair out over this one. You bring up an interesting point though. The shims my kit came with look like they are to be put under the bearing cones, rather than behind the cups. I got a bunch of .004" shims and only a few thicker ones.

The way everything looks, it appears that putting the shims behind the bearing cup is the most ideal. It just seems impossible to try setting it up that way with such thin shims.

Either way, I've got two more shim packs coming in the mail. Hopefully those packs come with some considerably thicker shims. Wish I could be knocking this project out sooner! I've got time off and good weather right now....Who knows what next week will hold!
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Old 02-17-2016, 05:15 PM   #15
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I think the kit i ordered that had the best assortment of shims was a DANA master install kit from Denny's Driveshaft (also a good source for u-joints). It would be a hell of alot easier to install the carrier with shims between the bearing cone and carrier, but unless you have setup bearings that match your final bearings' tolerances EXACTLY, it won't work. And you'll bugger up the final bearings if you try to press them on and off everytime you need to make an adjustment. All of my adjustments ended up being the larger shims outside the cups. I was able to sandwich the thinner ones between the cup and spacer/guard shims to alleviate the headaches somewhat, but there's always that one paper thin shim that doesn't slide in quite far enough, and no matter HOW carefully you try to tap it back in...

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