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Old 06-23-2014, 07:53 AM
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Running a little hot (`04 TJ 6L)

My `04 TJ 6L recently started running a bit hot at speeds > 70mph.
Not overheating, but gauge is at the right of 210.
Runs at 210 at idle and at lower speeds.

Coolant was recently changed.

Could the cause be the thermostat? (I'm thinking not), or perhaps the fan clutch?

(Yes, I know, I could just drive 55 )

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Old 06-23-2014, 08:44 AM   #2
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Have you tried to clean the radiator?

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Old 06-23-2014, 09:20 AM
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I had the coolant changed and radiator flushed about 6 mo. ago.
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Old 06-23-2014, 09:32 AM   #4
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the dummy gauge is designed to sit at 210, which is the avg temp of a properly running 4.0L

best thing to do is find out your actual engine temp. if you have a smart phone this can be accomplished by spending $15 on an OBDII Bluetooth adapter and another $5 on an app. then you can get actual reading from your PCM instead of trusting the dummy gauges.

I think tbensor was talking about actually cleaning the radiator, take a hoes and go over the whole thing, front and back, doesnt hurt to remove the fan shroud so you can get into all the hidden areas
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Old 06-23-2014, 11:04 AM   #5
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If it's showing 210 then it's not running hot. That is the normal operating temperature.
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Old 06-23-2014, 11:10 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironhead Jed View Post
the dummy gauge is designed to sit at 210, which is the avg temp of a properly running 4.0L

best thing to do is find out your actual engine temp. if you have a smart phone this can be accomplished by spending $15 on an OBDII Bluetooth adapter and another $5 on an app. then you can get actual reading from your PCM instead of trusting the dummy gauges.
x2

the dash gauge on my 04 points at 210° whether the coolant 185° or 235°. gotta read it off the PCM via an OBDII scanner of some sort to get accurate real time information.
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Old 06-23-2014, 11:21 AM
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links to an OBDII Bluetooth adapter with an iPhone app available will be appreciated.
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Old 07-06-2014, 05:47 PM
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I found the problem. (I'll fix tomorrow)
The lower radiator hose is collapsing at rev's > 2.5
I had the dealer flush the cooling system and replace the hose back in Jan, so I didn't even think of looking at the lower radiator hose, but I was running out of ideas, and research reminded me that a collapsing hose is one of the causes of overheating.

The hose is a bit soft, but there is no spring in the hose. (In researching I've read that this is now common.)

When did they stop putting a spring in the lower hose?
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Old 07-06-2014, 06:33 PM   #9
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Please let me know if this fixes your issue. My gauge is the same with a small fluctuation at higher speeds. Mine moves about 2 needle widths at 70mph on warm days. I am planning to clean my radiator, flush, fill and change the thermostat.
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Old 07-06-2014, 06:35 PM
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Will do. I hope to change it tomorrow (If I can locate a hose with a spring )
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Old 07-06-2014, 06:59 PM   #11
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While the oil pressure gauge on newer TJs is a "dummy" gauge, the temperature gauge is not. It actually shows fairly accurate temperatures. I've personally seen it register every temperature possible including slow up-down creep up to when my engine overheated a couple times. Plenty of advance warning, there was no sudden jump to hot on the guage.

The fan doesn't have much to do with the coolant temperature at 70 mph. Based on you having flushed the system 6 months ago without mentioning replacing the thermostat, your thermostat may be failing. I'd replace it with a new quality 195 degree thermostat like from Stant. Avoid the temptation to go with a "fail safe" thermostat. While that does sound good, fail-safe thermostats are well known to fail prematurely and just get stuck in the open position so the engine either takes extra time to warm up, or it never fully warms up at all in cold conditions.
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:26 PM
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Yes, I didn't mention it, but the first thing I did was to replace the thermostat (MOPAR 195°), as after I thought about it (after my original post) I considered that the thermostat wasn't fully opening (thermostat was replaced 6 mo ago with the flush, but new parts do fail).

(BTW, I have an `04 TJ, and I agree, with you on the gauge. For 9 years (the age of the old hose), the needle sat a hair to the left of 210, (prob at 200°), rising to 210, but rarely above it. Now I'm at 200°-210° until I get above 70mph, then the needle sits to the right of 210, my guess at 220°, and will slowly creep higher to about 235°, and twice almost hit the red — but letting off the gas brings it right back down to 235°)

But…. with the lower radiator hose collapsing at high rev's (I confirmed visually), I'm certain that thats the problem. And that the problem is that there's no spring in the (6 mo. old) hose.

Is this normal — no spring in a new hose — or did I just get a defective hose?
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:32 PM   #13
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It actually shows fairly accurate temperatures. I've personally seen it register every temperature possible including slow up-down creep up to when my engine overheated a couple times. Plenty of advance warning, there was no sudden jump to hot on the guage.
I've had the exact opposite experience. I wouldn't consider +/- 15% "fairly accurate" at all, I'd consider it fairly inaccurate.

I've personally seen the OBDII scanner read nearly 240°, while the dash gauge pointed at 210°. I've also personally watched the gauge go from 210° to a near instant 260°, trip a CEL and had the PCM shut the motor off due to severe overheating. No warning whatsoever.

If I watch the OBDII scanner, I can easily see the temperature climb slowly, until the temperature gets too uncomfortable for my liking...all while the dash gauge does absolutely nothing interesting.
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:13 PM   #14
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Is this normal — no spring in a new hose — or did I just get a defective hose?

I don't know if new OEM hoses come with the "spring" but when I replaced all hoses with aftermarket units I transferred the "spring" from the old OEM hose to the new aftermarket hose.
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:17 PM   #15
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I haven't seen springs in new radiator hoses in years. I was told springs were eliminated because of better quality hose rubber and that springs could rust and break into pieces, scattering through the engine.
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:31 PM
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With spring: Lasted 9 years
Without spring: hose is collapsing after 6 mo.
(Unfortunately, I didn't do the replacement last time, so spring is gone, can't re-use in new hose)

Guess I'll have to go without the spring
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:32 PM   #17
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I haven't seen springs in new radiator hoses in years. I was told springs were eliminated because of better quality hose rubber and that springs could rust and break into pieces, scattering through the engine.

I don't know how much radiator hose technology could've improved in the last ten years but the spring I pulled was in perfect condition so I reused it.
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:34 PM
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Is corrosion of the spring was an issue, manuf could have used SS.
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:39 PM   #19
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Guess I'll have to go without the spring
I have seen the springs for sale in parts stores.

But I am wondering if the hose collapse is more of a symptom than the actual problem. Like your thermostat isn't opening or the radiator is obstructed, thereby causing a pressure differential that should not exist.
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:49 PM   #20
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Is corrosion of the spring was an issue, manuf could have used SS.
corrosion is a big issue.....for those who do not maintain their cooling system properly.

don't change your coolant on time, don't use the correct coolant or mix coolant chemistry and you'll have all sorts of corrosion problems.

automotive manufacturers are only concerned with getting the vehicle out of the warranty period. they could care less what happens after about 80k miles.

FWIW, when I installed new Gates/NAPA hoses, I reused the stock lower radiator hose spring.
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:52 PM
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… I am wondering if the hose collapse is more of a symptom than the actual problem. Like your thermostat isn't opening or the radiator is obstructed, thereby causing a pressure differential that should not exist.
I considered that, but it's only collapsing at high rev's (~>70mph). Doesn't appear to be any obstruction, and the thermostat is opening.

However, the Radiator Cap is original, I'll replace it

Also, the hose is also quite soft (I'm wondering if the dealer messed up and didn't replace the lower hose — mistakes happen)
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Old 07-06-2014, 11:58 PM   #22
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However, the Radiator Cap is original, I'll replace it
That might be a good move. I suspect that the water pump would have a hard time sucking a hose flat if system pressure was normal.
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Old 07-07-2014, 10:06 AM
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Stopped by Mopar parts dept, to pick up a new Lower Radiator Hose, and it has the spring!
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Old 07-07-2014, 12:37 PM   #24
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But…. with the lower radiator hose collapsing at high rev's (I confirmed visually), I'm certain that thats the problem. And that the problem is that there's no spring in the (6 mo. old) hose.

Is this normal — no spring in a new hose — or did I just get a defective hose?
How did you visually confirm that at 70 MPH your hose was being sucked in...? Dont think I'd want a buddy of mine holding onto my front bumper with the hood up while I drove down the road doing 70...?

I'm having a similar issue... Seems like about 65+ the jeep heats up just about a needle width further than 210. However, it also is heating up at idle after sitting for a few minutes, especially if my AC is running. Now I know this sounds like a fan clutch but I dont believe mine is bad. I can move the fan a few times around but its not "easy", I have to actually put a little arm strength into it I cant just spin it, take my hand away, and watch it freely rotate. Also, when the motor shuts off the fan stops immediately with it. I was told if the fan clutch was bad the fan would continue to spin.

I'm thinking my issue could be the thermostat (so I hope), and not the radiator. But if its just a hose I would like to test this out. I bought the jeep in December and have no idea what kind of maint was done, or wasnt done to it. Oh, I didnt start having heating issues until I had the transmission rebuilt in february but around that time its started to get upwards of high 90+ degree's here in florida so I didnt think much of it.
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Old 07-07-2014, 01:20 PM   #25
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How did you visually confirm that at 70 MPH your hose was being sucked in...? Dont think I'd want a buddy of mine holding onto my front bumper with the hood up while I drove down the road doing 70...?
It's best to use a former girlfriend for that type job.
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Old 07-07-2014, 02:21 PM
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How did you visually confirm that at 70 MPH your hose was being sucked in...?
(Ever see "Cape Fear" with Robert De Niro? )

I hit the throttle to bring the rev's to about 3,000, and the hose immediately collapsed.
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Old 07-07-2014, 02:33 PM   #27
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I wonder if I have that issue ... I doubt it, seems too simple for me. Nothing is simple for me hah
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Old 07-07-2014, 04:44 PM
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Simple now, but not when I didn't know what the cause was
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Old 07-09-2014, 07:54 PM
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Got the lower radiator hose in yesterday (OEM with a spring inside).
Today was on the highway for about 75 miles.
At 60 and below, the temp was a tiny bit below 210°
At 70 and above, needle was a bit above 210° (needle was right between the "1" and the "0" of 210° (before it was past the "0"))

So, looks like its fixed
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Old 07-10-2014, 07:51 AM   #30
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Checked my hose yesterday ... it has a spring in it and everything feels fine. Popped the radiator cap off and tried to squeeze the hose, it doesnt fold. Darn it!

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