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Old 01-27-2019, 07:48 PM   #31
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Not forums or hearsay....

As I said it was an aisin webpage...
Within the last 6 months...

How is it that you think you know what I do and don't have experience with?

What the heck does a rear differential have to do with a transmission????

Nothing...

I have stated that aisin reccommends 10-30... the ONLY way for you to prove me wrong is to find a current spec FROM AISIN stating otherwise..... you COULD just come out and call me a liar I suppose but then that wouldn't be proof either.


I will clarify something for you that I suspect you misunderstood...

The OP asked about lube to make his transmission SHIFT better and when I said conventional was superior I was on the subject of shifting.... I am not saying than conventional oil LUBRICATES better than conventional...

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Old 01-27-2019, 11:29 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gottagofast View Post
Not forums or hearsay....

As I said it was an aisin webpage...
Within the last 6 months...

How is it that you think you know what I do and don't have experience with?

What the heck does a rear differential have to do with a transmission????

Nothing...


I will clarify something for you that I suspect you misunderstood...

The OP asked about lube to make his transmission SHIFT better and when I said conventional was superior I was on the subject of shifting.... I am not saying than conventional oil LUBRICATES better than conventional...
Aisin never recommended 10w-30, especially not conventional. Mopar/Chrysler recommended their 10w-30 full synthetic which they added stuff for manual transmissions to. If you want to be stubborn, fine. The only way I'll believe you that 10w-30 conventional is good for transmissions is if mopar and aisin warner say otherwise, but I have gotten 2 customer transmissions back that I recommended 10w-30 full synthetic mopar oil that both had the same wear on the output shaft that prevented downshifting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gottagofast View Post
I have stated that aisin reccommends 10-30... the ONLY way for you to prove me wrong is to find a current spec FROM AISIN stating otherwise..... you COULD just come out and call me a liar I suppose but then that wouldn't be proof either.
This is what everyone needs to see for me to be wrong! Please find a recommendation by aisin warner calling for 10w-30 conventional!


Not one person who has used Redline mt-90 or Amsoil Manual Transmission & Transaxle Gear Lube 75W-90 has ever complained about how their transmissions shift or lasts.

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Old 01-27-2019, 11:39 PM   #33
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Follow the manufacturer recommendations. Always use a quality oil of the correct type.
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Old 01-27-2019, 11:54 PM   #34
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You haven't proven anything at all...

You can be pissed all you want... Totally pointless and unproductive...

I DON'T NEED TO PROVE YOU WRONG
I gave a guy honest advice based on what I have read from the manufacturer of the transmission and you came and started accusing me..... The burden of proof is on YOU.

I clearly and honestly stated that if you can SHOW that aisin reccommends differently I will gladly accept it....

You have quoted outdated service manual data and all sort of unsubstantiated claims with absolutely no quantifiable technical data that is somehow supposed to prove me to be either ignorant or dishonest...

You have stated completely imaginary facts that you think you know about what I have or have not had experience with...

You seem VERY concerned w convincing me....
Go ahead and reach out to aisin for a reccomendation.... surely such a transmission building expert as yourself could figure out how to do that...
Manage that one thing and you'll instantly win....

Otherwise you can just keep typing every day....
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Old 01-28-2019, 12:02 AM   #35
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Btw.... ease up on your redline bandwagon... I never once said there was anything wrong w redline....

I said 10-30 is correct and that no I do not use synthetic.... because conventional (shifting) is better....

I said that 3 ax transmissions that I drained syncromesh to replace w 10-30 shifted better afterwards....

You are (imho of course) really over reacting....
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Old 01-28-2019, 11:39 AM   #36
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Both you guys need to lighten up.

This is from the Community Rules....

Respect Each Other: Our underlying philosophy is that we want The Wrangler Forum to be an online reflection of the wheeling community. Treat each other with respect just as you would on the road. Talking smack or challenging others' points of view and opinions is fine as long as you do so in a respectful manner.

We all want the same thing...to exchange information about what works for us, so that we can help other Jeepers decide what's best for them.

As far as what to put in our transmissions, there's no right or wrong (except for GL-5).
It's just what's worked best for each person that's offering advice.

Good Luck, L.M.
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Old 01-28-2019, 12:57 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Luckymac View Post
As far as what to put in our transmissions, there's no right or wrong (except for GL-5).
It's just what's worked best for each person that's offering advice.

Good Luck, L.M.
So much misinformation concerning oil, non-hypoid (sulfur free) gl5 is okay but a little too slick imo, good for the bearings and gears but bad for synchronizer friction. The only make that uses these aisin manual transmissions that has anything to mention about 10w-30 full synthetic is Jeep. All the other transmissions that share synchronizers (and look exactly the same internally) with the Jeep AX-15 and AX-5 (Chevy AR-5, toyota R/G/W-series) all recommend 75w-90 gl4 lube.

There has not even been a Jeep technical service bulletin recommending 10w-30 that I or anyone else has seen. There has not been any updated service manuals for these transmissions and they would have updated if 10w-30 is recommended above original recommendations. The only source of info about the 10w-30 full synthetic is that the old mopar P/N for the manual transmission 75w-90 fluid started cross referencing to their 10w-30 full synthetic motor oil and the constant forum hearsay about 10w-30 only on wrangler forum and Jeep Forum.

Considering Toyota recommends 75w90 gl4 and toyotas are known for having longer maintenance free intervals than Jeeps, I can only recommend using what Toyota, GM, Novak adapters, all service manuals for all aisin manual transmissions, advance adapters, wikipedia, google and literally every transmission rebuilder use including Moses Ludel.

Please, for the longevity of your transmissions, I recommend more of you look into doing more research. I did and I used to recommend 10w-30 on this forum, I regret doing that now because I was wrong and it was bad advice and I've had transmissions come back for warranty work because of my bad recommendations to customers. If you absolutely need to put motor oil in for whatever reason, at least change it every 5000 miles or switch to synthetic for every 15000 miles because conventional motor oil does have a terrible shear stability compared to synthetic. I'd call 75w-90 gl4 synthetic a 50,000-100,000 mile lube.
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Old 01-28-2019, 01:56 PM   #38
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Is it just me, or is anyone else tired of this "conversation"? Same crap over and over.
You all need to realize that I'm the only one who is right about this, and you NEED to follow my advice or the world will come to an end quicker than the 12 years forecast by that dumbass in DC.
My advice? Do like Popeye says: "I only use Olive Oil".
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Old 01-28-2019, 02:46 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by 283 YJ View Post
My advice? Do like Popeye says: "I only use Olive Oil".
How Popeye uses Olive Oil is even legal now in about 30 states. Plus, I never heard about Olive Oil complaining.

Good Luck, L.M.
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Old 01-28-2019, 02:53 PM   #40
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Agreed LM....
I admit that I'm guilty of tossing a jab in tho in all honestly tho I've felt like I was on the defensive since his first post on the subject...

Although, I'll conceed that oftens intentions can be easily misunderstand when conversing in print, It feels like mr wagner is attacking instead of conversing and saying anything to try to make me, you, and others look bad even to the point of completely contradicting himself.....

Re: my statement that syncronizers need some friction to function...
Quote:
Originally Posted by c5wagner View Post
...the slicker oil with the brass synchronizers is better because the friction comes from the brass (soft metal) against steel (hard metal), not the oil that's only there to transfer heat away from the brass.
Re: LM's mention of gl-5 being unacceptable
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Originally Posted by c5wagner View Post
.....gl5 is okay but a little too slick imo, good for the bearings and gears but bad for synchronizer friction....
How about we sum it up and move on

I say I read something but I can't find it again to show him...
He says he never read it but he can't say it doesn't exist...

Fair enough?
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Old 01-28-2019, 04:58 PM   #41
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Agreed LM....
I admit that I'm guilty of tossing a jab in tho in all honestly tho I've felt like I was on the defensive since his first post on the subject...

Although, I'll conceed that oftens intentions can be easily misunderstand when conversing in print, It feels like mr wagner is attacking instead of conversing and saying anything to try to make me, you, and others look bad even to the point of completely contradicting himself.....

Re: my statement that syncronizers need some friction to function...


Re: LM's mention of gl-5 being unacceptable

How about we sum it up and move on

I say I read something but I can't find it again to show him...
He says he never read it but he can't say it doesn't exist...

Fair enough?
Sorry if you felt attacked, it's just frustrating when misinformation spreads through forums like wildfire. I've seen the same thing with Ford manual transmissions and ATF on thier forums where ford quietly removed all info about atf but the forums kept it up.

To clarify, the original post about friction was concerning conventional to synthetic motor oil where slicker synthetic would be better especially for bearing and synchronizer wear. Gl5 is really good for anti wear but is really slick compared to gl4, that's why many feel quicker shifting when dumping gl5 for something else on old transmissions with worn synchronizers. GL5 is good for new transmissions or those with new synchronizers and tight tolerances but I still recommend GL4 with new or rebuilt units.

The main point is, the more you have to move down the line in oil grade to shift, the closer your transmission is to being out the door.
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Old 01-28-2019, 10:25 PM   #42
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So I should use Type F? Am I understanding that right? So confused...
Got it at last likes this.
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Old 01-29-2019, 12:08 AM   #43
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So I should use Type F? Am I understanding that right? So confused...
Sure! Maybe ATF+4 since it's a jeep! What could go wrong?
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Old 01-29-2019, 10:36 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Gottagofast View Post
Agreed LM....
I admit that I'm guilty of tossing a jab in tho in all honestly tho I've felt like I was on the defensive since his first post on the subject...

Although, I'll conceed that oftens intentions can be easily misunderstand when conversing in print, It feels like mr wagner is attacking instead of conversing and saying anything to try to make me, you, and others look bad even to the point of completely contradicting himself.....

Re: my statement that syncronizers need some friction to function...


Re: LM's mention of gl-5 being unacceptable

How about we sum it up and move on

I say I read something but I can't find it again to show him...
He says he never read it but he can't say it doesn't exist...

Fair enough?
When did you quit beating your girlfriend?? Prove it!!!
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Old 01-29-2019, 11:42 AM   #45
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I gave up and went with THIS!
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Old 01-29-2019, 01:14 PM   #46
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I gave up and went with THIS!
Remember, you don't want it to slippery. Still need some friction for the errmm Synchronizers.....
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Old 01-29-2019, 02:11 PM   #47
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Remember, you don't want it to slippery. Still need some friction for the errmm Synchronizers.....
After 33 years the wife seems to think I still Sync OK, Oh and the Jeep shifts good after 30. LOL
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Old 01-30-2019, 06:59 AM   #48
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I called O'Reilly's, AutoZone, and the dealership. They looked up the part number for the oil recommended. A technical services bulletin was put in around 10 years ago for 10w 30 synthetic. I've been running it for 6 months, and it works well. It's a beat old ax15 and it already had synch issues when I got it. Shifting is smoother now.
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Old 01-30-2019, 08:03 AM   #49
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Well if it was designed around 75-90, and updated after 15 years to 10-30, I figure you can run either, why not?

Everyone says there was a “misprint” in the factory manual” for a GL-5? Who is to say there wasn’t a misprint to 10-30?

And Mopar is changing fluids for Aisin-Warner? Mopar made the Dodge Neon, I wouldn’t trust a thing they say. I am surprised Dodge hasn’t recommended bubble gum.
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Old 01-30-2019, 10:53 AM   #50
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I called O'Reilly's, AutoZone, and the dealership. They looked up the part number for the oil recommended. A technical services bulletin was put in around 10 years ago for 10w 30 synthetic. I've been running it for 6 months, and it works well. It's a beat old ax15 and it already had synch issues when I got it. Shifting is smoother now.
10 years ago, we had API SM (2004_2011) oil, then SN (2011-2018) now we have SN+ (2018->). With the additive makeup changed, i wouldn't personally trust it. Especially considering these are engine additive makeups and not gear additive makeups. Gears aren't a concern for engine oil, except motorcycle oil. t's true 10w-30 full synthetic is equivalent viscosity to a gl3 75w90, but the only way I'd run it is changing it often enough. Maybe every 10000-15000 miles. The failures I've seen seem to indicate that the oil loses its properties about there.
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Old 01-30-2019, 02:08 PM   #51
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Especially considering these are engine additive makeups and not gear additive makeups. Gears aren't a concern for engine oil, except motorcycle oil. t's true 10w-30 full synthetic is equivalent viscosity to a gl3 75w90, but the only way I'd run it is changing it often enough. Maybe every 10000-15000 miles. The failures I've seen seem to indicate that the oil loses its properties about there.
First, I think it's difficult for the untrained to understand why or how the viscosity of a 30W motor oil can be equal to the viscosity of a 75W gear oil - without understanding ISO. So there's hurdle #1.

Second, I've stated several times that I don't use motor oil specifically because of the incorrect additive package. That's why I went to a dedicated drive train fluid - 30W.

Third, you state "changing it often enough. MAYBE 10000-15000 miles.."
I personally am a huge fan of used oil analysis. Why would any 'expert' be guessing about something like this? With UOA I know exactly what my wear patterns are and exactly when to change my oil.
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Old 01-30-2019, 02:21 PM   #52
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Am I the only one who is getting more confused by each post?


We need a definite answer based on:


1) What the manufacturer originally recommended
2) Any alternative approved by the manufacturer
3) Any Directive or Service Bulletin calling for the stoppage of use for one type of oil.


Does anyone have proof of what type of oil is needed for the AX-5 / AX-15 used in the YJ Wranglers 88-95? Like, actual manuals from Jeep that said so...


Disregard personal suggestions, what Autozone says, what other vehicles that have the same transmission use... what does Jeep say to use specifically? Because it looks like we have 6 to pick from based on what everyone mentioned prior: 10-30 conventional / 10-30 synthetic / Syncromesh / 75-90 / 75-80 / Red Line MTL... they all can't be right! lol
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Old 01-30-2019, 02:53 PM   #53
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NOPE! No definitive answer on what you MUST use. Just a bunch of opinions. There are likely bulletins out there to say "don't" use something, but I'm of the opinion that your really can't trust most recommendations, especially from manufacturers.
As an example, let's say Ford recommends 0-30 in their Yadamobile. Think that's because it was determined to be the best lubricant for that particular motor? Or is it recommended because that particular oil got that motor to EPA (or CAFE) specs?
Ford did recommend ATF in my 5sp F250 transmission. Somehow I'm guessing that they didn't look at ATF specs and say, "Hey, let's build a manual transmission around these". More likely scenario is that they build the smallest 5 sp tranny they could, then started scratching their collective heads and said, "what the hell do we put in this?"
And as it turns out, ATF didn't work there either.
The only thing I can recommend is to do what research you can or want, then decide what you want to use. If not, find someone you think you trust and go that route. And believe me, that guy isn't the one that just paid $20 to AMSOIL and became an expert oil salesman.
Not much help, am I?
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Old 01-30-2019, 04:22 PM   #54
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I love these threads, muchos caliente!

Around page 30, it will still be opinions...
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Old 01-30-2019, 05:00 PM   #55
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I still defer to post #45
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This thread really escalated....
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Old 01-30-2019, 10:53 PM   #57
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I'm still running 10-30 in my ax15 and my ax5 and will continue to do so.....
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Old 01-31-2019, 01:18 AM   #58
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I'm done with this whole thread, logically doesnt make sense that Jeep decided 10w30 full synthetic oil is what they recommended on a transmission they didn't design or build. Aisin warner suggests 75w90 gl4 or gl5 on a transmission they did design and build to Jeeps outer dimension specs and gear ratio specs. Every other make using their transmissions that look and function identically internally holds to these oil recommendation specs including Toyota, isuzu, gm, and hynix. Yet everyone is obsessed with jeep's recommendation but not really because conventional is somehow better than synthetic. Maybe jeep didn't trust their average users were smart enough to make sure their gear oil choice had the "yellow metal safe" label or something. With all the dufus engineering I've seen jeep owners come up with especially the XJ crowd, I could understand that.
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Build Thread 1989 YJ, Chevy 355 TBI, 700r4, np231 sye/wide chain/6 pinion planetary, D30/8.8/4.56, 33" A/T's, bds 3.5" springs, 1" Boom Shackles, crossover heim steering
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Old 01-31-2019, 07:41 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gottagofast View Post
I'm still running 10-30 in my ax15 and my ax5 and will continue to do so.....
I have been using it in my windshield washer fluid reservoir since day 1, works fantastic!
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1993 Wrangler YJ MPFI 4.0 HO m/t 5 spd
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Old 02-03-2019, 07:02 AM   #60
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Jeepers I replaced my transmission in 93 yj I have been running MT-90 in tranny in morning cold day stiff but after motor and tranny get to running temperature all good.
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