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Old 01-22-2018, 07:56 AM
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Tranny Re-installation Problem: The Last Inch

Okay guys,

Internal slave blew up, bought an AX-15 out of a 98 TJ with the external set up.

Everything came apart great and the clutch install went great as well. However, I can not for the life of me get the tranny to line up with the pilot bushing. That is to say, the tranny is roughly 1" from the block. The splines line up and the tranny engages with the clutch (its in first gear right/2H) so I know the clutch is aligned right. But its the last inch that I can't get. I did verify the pilot bushing fits on the shaft, so everything is good there.

Are there any tricks to this? I thought about getting longer bolts and forcing the issue but I really don't want to do that since I would probably ruin something...or everything.

I do have a tranny jack to help, and a regular jack to lift/lower the engine block.

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Old 01-22-2018, 09:46 AM   #2
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Sure sounds like clutch disk is no centered, did you use the proper alignment tool when you installed the clutch? Not meaning to question your your skill level but some of those cheep plastic universal tools are not accurate.

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Old 01-22-2018, 09:49 AM
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I used that plastic tool but it was kinda sticky coming out. Its possible its not fully aligned, I suppose. If the plastic tool doesn't work, how do I align it?
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:09 AM   #4
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Make sure you have the right pilot bushing... I believe there are two different sizes
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Gottagofast View Post
Make sure you have the right pilot bushing... I believe there are two different sizes
Well, I did verify that the part number on rock auto for a 92 and 98 ax-15 is the same part, so it should be identical. The Part is SCE1295, which has a 3/4" bore (.75"), 1" diameter, and is 9/16" thick (.5625").
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:38 AM   #6
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I did basically the same swap years ago. I can tell you that the pilot bushings are different. You have to buy the adapter bushing from advanced adapter, or novac. There is no off the shelf bushing that works.
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Ov yj View Post
I did basically the same swap years ago. I can tell you that the pilot bushings are different. You have to buy the adapter bushing from advanced adapter, or novac. There is no off the shelf bushing that works.
Could you do me a favor and link the adapter? The AX-15 input shaft diameters are both .75" and the bushings are both the same part, so I'm confused as to what about them is different.

In 1992 Jeep stopped using the .59" input shaft on the AX-15 and opted for the .75" shaft. That is the only difference I could find and assumed I was in the clear.
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Old 01-22-2018, 04:57 PM   #8
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I don't know the #, go to advanced adapters Web site, it's there. If your 92 was internal slave, then it's the same as a 91.
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Old 01-22-2018, 05:12 PM   #9
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It can be a bitch to line them up. I went through this this past fall. Watch how much trouble the Bleepin Jeep guy has with it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0Lam4vp_64
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Old 01-22-2018, 06:02 PM
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It can be a bitch to line them up. I went through this this past fall. Watch how much trouble the Bleepin Jeep guy has with it.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0Lam4vp_64
Nice, thanks!

It seems I just need to keep pushing, and line things up right. I hate that het cut out the pushing bit since that is where I am at, but it also shows that there aren't any tricks, just lining stuff up
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Old 01-22-2018, 06:29 PM   #11
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from an old TV commercial.
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:25 PM   #12
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Get two bolts the same size that hold the trans in place, [a little longer] and cut the heads off and then use them for alignment dowel pins, so you know the trans in in the right place. some people cut a slot in the end so you can unscrew them once the trans is in.
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Old 01-22-2018, 09:22 PM   #13
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Nubby55 View Post
Get two bolts the same size that hold the trans in place, [a little longer] and cut the heads off and then use them for alignment dowel pins, so you know the trans in in the right place. some people cut a slot in the end so you can unscrew them once the trans is in.
I tried this yesterday and it worked perfectly, I could feel the tranny wanting to slide in but I am not strong enough to push it in. My T-case/rear drive shaft are already assembled so the unit weighs ~125 lbs and at the awkward angle (I don't have a lift) means I need a few hands to help. I'm having a few club members over Thursday to help.

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Thats what I was thinking, I measured both shafts I have at 3/4" so hopefully it lines up okay. My jeep is a 92 (built in November according to the vin code & FSM).
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:03 AM
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Also, regarding installing the clutch, I had a hell of a time loosening the clutch alignment tool and I fear I may have moved the clutch friction disk. Is it normal for the tool to be hard to remove?

I'm going to reinstall the clutch just to make sure it's 100% lined up but if the tool is stuck I'm not sure how to remove it without moving things
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:36 AM   #16
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When I was a youngster, the hot setup for us was 1949-1951 Fords.
Flathead V8s with 3 on the tree.
They had weak 1st/reverse cluster gears and if you wound the old flathead up to 4 grand and slipped your foot off the clutch, you could rip the teeth of the cluster.
This caused many transmission overhauls and related clutch replacements.

I remember one of my buddies couldn't get his transmission back into place (the last inch). He had one of us push the clutch pedal in to release the pressure on the friction disc and was able to get the transmission home.

This is simply a hint to OP and may or may not even be possible in his situation. OP has a question about pilot bearing. I seem to remember some poster saying that a pilot bearing from a V8 CJ will work, but I don't remember the year.

What I would try is remove the disc and pressure plate and measure the pilot bearing internal diameter. Compare that measurement to the snout on the transmission input shaft.
Harbor Freight has a digital caliper for about $10.00 that should be accurate enough for this measurement.
Once you're certain you have the correct pilot bearing for your trans, put the disc and pressure plate back up with the bolts just in by a few threads, reinsert the alignment tool and run the PP bolts in finger tight and wiggle the alignment tool as you tighten the PP bolts little by little, doing every other bolt, like you would tighten the lug nuts on a wheel. What you're trying to do as you wiggle the alignment tool and tighten the bolts little by little is be sure the disc is centered to the end of the crankshaft. The tool shouldn't be difficult to remove.
If, as you tighten each bolt little by little, the alignment tool becomes difficult to remove, stop what you're doing and find out why it gets difficult.
Once the PP has enough pressure on the disc that you're sure it won't move, go ahead and tighten all the bolts and torque them to spec. Try the alignment tool one more time just to be sure it goes in and out without trouble.

I suggest that you support the engine at the pan with a block of wood with the floor jack. Then put the transmission on the transmission jack and lift it into a close to install position. I'd do this with the transfer case off. The addition weight of the TC makes trying to install the trans with the TC attached clumsy.
Then use the bolts with a cut off head as a guide and with an assistant helping with the transmission jack, fit the transmission in place.

Under no circumstances should you attempt to draw the transmission into place by tightening the bellhousing bolts. That's a recipe for disaster. Yes, you'll ruin something....or everything.

Keep us posted on how it goes.

Good Luck, L.M.
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckymac View Post
When I was a youngster, the hot setup for us was 1949-1951 Fords.
Flathead V8s with 3 on the tree.
They had weak 1st/reverse cluster gears and if you wound the old flathead up to 4 grand and slipped your foot off the clutch, you could rip the teeth of the cluster.
This caused many transmission overhauls and related clutch replacements.

I remember one of my buddies couldn't get his transmission back into place (the last inch). He had one of us push the clutch pedal in to release the pressure on the friction disc and was able to get the transmission home.

This is simply a hint to OP and may or may not even be possible in his situation. OP has a question about pilot bearing. I seem to remember some poster saying that a pilot bearing from a V8 CJ will work, but I don't remember the year.

What I would try is remove the disc and pressure plate and measure the pilot bearing internal diameter. Compare that measurement to the snout on the transmission input shaft.
Harbor Freight has a digital caliper for about $10.00 that should be accurate enough for this measurement.
Once you're certain you have the correct pilot bearing for your trans, put the disc and pressure plate back up with the bolts just in by a few threads, reinsert the alignment tool and run the PP bolts in finger tight and wiggle the alignment tool as you tighten the PP bolts little by little, doing every other bolt, like you would tighten the lug nuts on a wheel. What you're trying to do as you wiggle the alignment tool and tighten the bolts little by little is be sure the disc is centered to the end of the crankshaft. The tool shouldn't be difficult to remove.
If, as you tighten each bolt little by little, the alignment tool becomes difficult to remove, stop what you're doing and find out why it gets difficult.
Once the PP has enough pressure on the disc that you're sure it won't move, go ahead and tighten all the bolts and torque them to spec. Try the alignment tool one more time just to be sure it goes in and out without trouble.

I suggest that you support the engine at the pan with a block of wood with the floor jack. Then put the transmission on the transmission jack and lift it into a close to install position. I'd do this with the transfer case off. The addition weight of the TC makes trying to install the trans with the TC attached clumsy.
Then use the bolts with a cut off head as a guide and with an assistant helping with the transmission jack, fit the transmission in place.

Under no circumstances should you attempt to draw the transmission into place by tightening the bellhousing bolts. That's a recipe for disaster. Yes, you'll ruin something....or everything.

Keep us posted on how it goes.

Good Luck, L.M.

I'll double check the pilot bearing but the more I see and read the more I think the clutch isn't lined up right. I'll take it apart and re-tighten the bolts. Thanks so much for the write up!
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckymac View Post

I remember one of my buddies couldn't get his transmission back into place (the last inch). He had one of us push the clutch pedal in to release the pressure on the friction disc and was able to get the transmission home.

This is simply a hint to OP and may or may not even be possible in his situation.
I forgot to add, I have a new slave/master unit coming Wed so I might be able to install it and see how the clutch trick works but not until I have the clutch lined up and things in place correctly
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:31 PM   #19
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The tool should have no drag coming out.... you didn't get the disc centered.....
As you tighten the pressure plate you need to hold up on the allignment tool a little... keep checking that it moves freely and make tiny adjustments..... also you can feel around the edges with your finger tips the disc vs the pressure plate.... they can be lined up without a tool.
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Gottagofast View Post
The tool should have no drag coming out.... you didn't get the disc centered.....
As you tighten the pressure plate you need to hold up on the allignment tool a little... keep checking that it moves freely and make tiny adjustments..... also you can feel around the edges with your finger tips the disc vs the pressure plate.... they can be lined up without a tool.
Yea, It's not centered. If it's supposed to be drag free then I messed up. I'll do the wiggle trick Lucky suggested and just slowly tighten them in a criss-cross pattern. Kinda like torquing lugs on a wheel
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:07 PM   #21
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I can totally relate to the guy in the video's exuberance when the thing finally lands home. on the other end of the spectrum I reinstalled a transmission in another marque auto fighting it all the way only to find I did not install the ring gear...

luckily I caught it before id reattached drivelines, but that was only dumb luck. the starter had to be installed before the half shafts for sake of accessibility. I don't know what made me look so closely at the starter housing prior to starter install.. but I did, and it went in easier the second time...
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:59 PM
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Well, as I kinda figured out earlier, the clutch friction disk wasn't centered. I worked at it for a few minutes and made absolutely certain the tool could be inserted and removed easily.

Sure enough, not only could I not insert the tool all the way but once I started tightening the bolts with the tool inserted all the way, it came out super smooth. I was not able to work to line the tranny up because of time restraints, so I will work on that on Thursday.
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Old 01-24-2018, 02:49 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixotwo View Post
Yea, It's not centered. If it's supposed to be drag free then I messed up. I'll do the wiggle trick Lucky suggested and just slowly tighten them in a criss-cross pattern. Kinda like torquing lugs on a wheel
Be very careful doing this, if the shaft is not inserted into the bearing and you pull the bolt down you can destroy the bearing with very little tightening, there is a lot of force applied when screwing in a bolt.
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Old 01-24-2018, 03:03 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Luckymac View Post
When I was a youngster, the hot setup for us was 1949-1951 Fords.
Flathead V8s with 3 on the tree.
They had weak 1st/reverse cluster gears and if you wound the old flathead up to 4 grand and slipped your foot off the clutch, you could rip the teeth of the cluster.
This caused many transmission overhauls and related clutch replacements.

I remember one of my buddies couldn't get his transmission back into place (the last inch). He had one of us push the clutch pedal in to release the pressure on the friction disc and was able to get the transmission home.

This is a good tip for a trans set up where you install the clutch, then the bell housing with all the yoke and linkage and then install the trans onto the bellhousing. Usually 4 bolts holding trans from the outside, sad but this will not work with a YJ trans, every time you push the clutch the trans goes backwards, and you may blow out the slave. But it will work fine on some car and trucks up to the 1970s or 1980s, just don't work where the trans and bell go in bolted together.
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:31 PM   #25
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Be very careful doing this, if the shaft is not inserted into the bearing and you pull the bolt down you can destroy the bearing with very little tightening, there is a lot of force applied when screwing in a bolt.
I had the same concern except I was going to say don't do it at all until I realized he was talking about tightening the pressure plate slowly and NOT the bellhousing....

No worries
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:17 PM   #26
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I did basically the same swap years ago. I can tell you that the pilot bushings are different. You have to buy the adapter bushing from advanced adapter, or novac. There is no off the shelf bushing that works.
No, he's right, 92 is when they changed to the bigger pilot bearing. I put a tranny out of a 92 in my 91, and had to do the adapter. Oh the difference a year makes. 92 and lateron should fit.
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Old 01-25-2018, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nubby55 View Post
Be very careful doing this, if the shaft is not inserted into the bearing and you pull the bolt down you can destroy the bearing with very little tightening, there is a lot of force applied when screwing in a bolt.
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Originally Posted by Gottagofast View Post
I had the same concern except I was going to say don't do it at all until I realized he was talking about tightening the pressure plate slowly and NOT the bellhousing....

No worries
Yea, Sorry that was confusing. I was referring to the Clutch!

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No, he's right, 92 is when they changed to the bigger pilot bearing. I put a tranny out of a 92 in my 91, and had to do the adapter. Oh the difference a year makes. 92 and lateron should fit.
I think the '92 was the mid model update of sorts. New tidbits here and there to prep for the total revamp in 1997. If only they had put the external slave design in, I wouldn't be in this mess!...Actually, I love wrenching on the jeep even when I'm pissed the damn thing won't do what I want haha
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Old 01-25-2018, 03:24 PM   #28
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I did basically the same swap years ago. I can tell you that the pilot bushings are different. You have to buy the adapter bushing from advanced adapter, or novac. There is no off the shelf bushing that works.
You can use a pilot bushing from a1973 CJ5 with a 304 V8 available at most parts stores. I just did mine a year ago
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Old 01-26-2018, 07:52 AM
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Update: IT FITS!!

After lining the clutch up properly and playing with the geometry, it slid right in! Took 3+ hours to get the Jeep drivable again but I took it for a 2 mile test run through town making sure to shift through all the gears. It is butter smooth shifting and the clutch pedal is firm but not too firm.

Because my exhaust is the rustiest part of the jeep I had to cut it out to do the swap. I bought some butt clamps and some exhaust sealant and thats holding for now, but I'm thinking my next project is a new exhaust.

Oh well, on to the next thing!
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