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Old 04-04-2015, 07:46 PM
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M100/M416 questions

Hi, guys, not sure if this is the right forum, so mods, feel free to move if this isn't.

I'm taking a road trip next weekend, and hoping to pick this beauty up for $500-$550. Owner gave this some weird "m77 1/4 ton military trailer" title, but I'm thinking it's a m416. Let me know if I'm wrong. The owner says there is some minor rust and pitting, but no rust through. He said he oiled it up this winter, which is why the pics look a little sludgy. There is some rust on the cover for what he said was the drain plug. Tires aren't in great shape with some cracking, but he said they've never lost air in the 2 years he's owned it.















Is this a m416? Couple of quick questions:


What pintle receiver size do I need to tow it home?

What is the tire/rim size/pattern? I think its 5x5.5, but I'm not 100% sure. Hoping to find some cheap rims/tires to replace.

Anything I might need to get this home (about 200 miles)? I'm hoping to grab some HF magnetic trailer lights. Any input at all is greatly appreciated.


Really keeping my fingers crossed I can pick this up!!

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Old 04-04-2015, 08:45 PM   #2
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Wow, you're getting a great deal there!

It looks to me that it's an M416. Here's a great thread on the G503 forum you may want to check out: G503 Military Vehicle Message Forums ā€¢ View topic - MBT/M100/M416 comparison

The magnet lights are a great idea. I picked up a set from Harbor Freight for $20.

As far as trailer hitches go, a standard pintle hook will work. There are a couple of varieties that you can choose from, I got the first one pictured below. The second one will work with regular trailer hitches too. Both of the hooks below are made by Curt. You can Google "Pintle Hook" and lots of choices come up. You can pick up a good one for $55-$60.

The only other thing I can think would be to walk it around a bit before towing it to make sure the wheels spin freely and the parking brake is not binding.


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Old 04-04-2015, 09:18 PM
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Thanks, beastmaster. The website etrailer headquaters is not too far from my work, I may pick a pintle hook there. Is there any advantage to the shank vs the bolt on type (besides price).

Based on your link and the year he gave (1967), it looks like a Johnson M416.
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Old 04-04-2015, 09:42 PM   #4
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I actually have one of each of the pintle types. I use the receiver type on my JKU since it has the receptacle and I use the bolt-on one on my MB. It all depends on what will work best on your bumper. The advantage to the receiver type is that I already had a trailer ball and can easily swap it for the pintle.
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Old 04-05-2015, 04:01 PM   #5
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nice find! Mine was a good bit more and in much worse shape
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Old 04-05-2015, 10:16 PM
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Pics of the tires, which I think I will have to replace.





I know the normal tires are 700 16 NDT, but they are a little on the pricey side new, and haven't had any luck finding used. I think the bolt pattern is 5x5.5. I'm hoping to find something like this to replace them, but not sure about the backspacing:

15 inch diameter, 5x5.5, 31 inch.





Anybody running civilian wheels/tires? What type, and how can I figure out if they will fit? The forums I've read say "the backspacing may be different", but how can I measure, and what is the correct bs?
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Old 04-06-2015, 06:44 AM   #7
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Well, I don't know your price range but you can get new pair of tires of this type for $276 (plus another $38.90 for a pair if inner tubes) from summit:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cok-676469/overview/
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Old 04-06-2015, 07:11 AM   #8
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$500 sounds like a real deal for that M416. They aren't found that often any more and are pretty desirable because they're so useful. Mine is a '67 also. On the pintle, I'd recommend getting one with a riser. I have a 6" rise, and use it to pull my M416 with my Nissan Titan 4wd. The hitch height is around 24" best I remember if you want the trailer to run level.


Rather than changing the wheels too, why not just put new tires on them? I used Dayton Timberline M/T 215 85 16 on my M151. I've had them for 10 years now with no leaks. The same size as the 700x16 and tubeless. If the rims are in good shape, you shouldn't have any troubles.

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Old 04-06-2015, 05:47 PM
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Hmm, not sure I have enough room under the spare for the adjustable kind. Stock JKUR with stock bumper. Will the straight pintle hook be too low? I'm measuring around 19" to center hitch height.
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Old 04-06-2015, 07:42 PM   #10
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The M416 has two positions for the lunette- 1'11" and 2'1" based on the M416 manual.

The bottom of the lunette will be a couple inches lower than your measured center line, so figure you'll be 17" to the bottom. It should pull fine if it's empty. After you get it home, you may want to see if a riser mount will work. Perhaps go ahead and buy the riser for the pintle, and if it won't go into your receiver without hitting the spare, flip it over mount the pintle with the riser pointing down. You won't lose any pintle height, any may be able to gain some.
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Old 04-07-2015, 05:35 PM
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Thank you for the info, Bryan. I may try a longer shank. I'm measuring a little under 11" from the center of the hitch pin to clearing my spare. This one is 12 1/8". If e trailer has it in stock, I will see if it fits.





Could have some problems with tailgate access with it mounted, but I guess that is expected.
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Old 04-07-2015, 08:26 PM   #12
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That's a lot bigger than mine. I think mine is a 6" and with my Hi-line bumper works perfect with my m416. It does clear my spare tire, but prevents me from opening my rear gate while the Pintle is installed.



Originally I had just a frame mounted hitch and with this 6" riser it was still a little low. But I only have 31" tires.
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Old 04-07-2015, 08:49 PM   #13
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I've just bought my M416 a couple of weeks ago and was going to go with Lock 'N' Roll but at $240+ I'm doing to do some modifications, mine did not come with the lunette.

I'm prob going to go with a pintle similar to yours, let us know what you go with.

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Originally Posted by scipio337 View Post
Thank you for the info, Bryan. I may try a longer shank. I'm measuring a little under 11" from the center of the hitch pin to clearing my spare. This one is 12 1/8". If e trailer has it in stock, I will see if it fits.





Could have some problems with tailgate access with it mounted, but I guess that is expected.
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Old 04-07-2015, 09:54 PM
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I put in a message in to e-trailer for part # BWPMHD14005. The shank is long enough to clear the tire, but I'm worried about that angled piece that connects the shank to the plate hitting the tire. I'll let you know what they say, and I'll more than likely just buy it and try it out in the parking lot on Thurs.

Thanks, you guys rock!
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Old 04-10-2015, 05:06 PM
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Well good news, found one that fit! It was the cheaper of the 2 with 10"+ shanks. It clears the tire with about 2" to spare.

The guy has taken down his CL post, it's mine for the taking on Sunday. Unless it's rusting off its wheels, it's coming home with me!
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Old 04-14-2015, 05:02 AM
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Wow. What an adventure.

Well, I picked up the trailer on Sunday, but it still isn't home. Long story short, I loved the trailer. It was in great shape, and the owner Dave had even re-packed the bearings and wired some new HF lights he had up. The tires look absolutely shot. They were hard and the dry rot was deep, even to the tread. There was no way the tires were making the 5 hour drive home. I had the options of risking driving it home, or waiting to bring a trailer up next weekend to take it home.

The seller Dave had another option: He had a friend who owned a tire shop who might have a tire to fit it. Oddly enough, his friend Mark was at his shop at 5pm on a Sunday, and let us pick through his used tires to find one to fit. He said "Take whatever you want, (for free) I have to pay $3 to get rid of each one." I did find a pair of Firestone 235/85/16. He actually had taken them off his daughter's Honda CRV right before the Winter. The tread was just a little worn, probably about 75% left.

Well, I found out you can't run tubeless tires on the stock M416 wheels without the tube, so then the hunt was on for new 16" 700 tubes (the ones on the trailer looked suspect). After a half hour of calling around various tire and farm places late on a Sunday, we found 2 at a Farm & Fleet store about 1/2 hour away.

So the seller Dave leads us to the store, pick up the only 2 remaining tubes, and head back to his friend Mark's tire place, who mounts them up. They look solid and aren't leaking. Win! I think if I had been in my hometown (St. Louis), these guys wouldn't have been as helpful. Mark did everything, including giving me the tires, for free. In hindsight, I should have grabbed a 3rd tire for a spare!

By the time we left, it was after 7pm, and I have a 5 hour drive home, all interstate. The trailer pulls great! I hardly know its there. I keep close to 65 just in case. About an hour from home, around 11pm, I feel a shudder, and the trailer starts to wobble. I pull over, and the passenger tire is flat. I have my compressor with me, but it looks like the valve has gone up into the rim. Damn! It's 11pm on a Sunday! I limp about a half mile to the next exit, and lo and behold, a tire shop right on the corner. I only have 1 choice: to leave the trailer. I park it behind the building and use a lock to secure the tow chains around a concrete post. I would hate to have a trailer I just bought for cash with no license and no title get stolen the very day I bought it. Locking the chains didn't make it theft-proof, but might make it a little more inconvenient to steal.

A few calls to the tire shop, and the trailer was ready to go last night. I had saved one of the original tubes, and the tire shop just re-mounted it on the tire. He said he had no idea why the tire ran flat, the tube and tire still look good.

So I'm off for another trip to pick it up tonight. I'm really hoping the tires make it home, and have no idea why they didn't work. Every forum I've read lists the 235/85/16 as compatible with the stock wheels, using the tubes. Not sure what I'll use the the future, but I'm not confident enough using these on a 1,000 mile road trip to Colorado this summer. I was eyeballing some steel civillian 15"s that are 5x5.5, and am looking into it.

A couple of pics with the stock NDTs. As you can see, the pintle receiver setup I used worked fine. I might have bought a cheaper plate with less rise/drop.






And with the new tires.




I have to thank Dave and Mark for helping out. There's no way I would have made it as far as I did without them going out of their way.

Wish me luck getting it home the final hour ride tonight!
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Old 04-14-2015, 06:25 AM   #17
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Sweet, congratz
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Old 04-14-2015, 07:04 AM
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Heh. Let's see if I make it home first!

This tire thing really has me worried.
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Old 04-14-2015, 10:13 AM   #19
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Good luck you got a great deal. Keep hoping I can find a deal like that.
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Old 04-14-2015, 01:27 PM   #20
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I don't know how wide you can go on the stock wheels, but 215 85 is the closest size to the stock 700 x 16. That may or may not have anything to do with your flat. (I'd lean toward not)

Great looking M416. Based on the bed rails, it looks like it's in really good shape. Does it still have the drains in the bed?


I have to wonder, I'm running tubeless tires on my M151A1, as well as two spare tires for my M416. I always assumed the tire shop that mounted them didn't use the tubes, but I have to wonder now if that's not the case.
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Old 04-14-2015, 07:30 PM
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$%^$%^@$%!!!!!!

Well, I got about 10 miles after picking the trailer back up, and had the same problem, on the same wheel. I'f frustrated as hell. I'm not sure if it is the wheel, or not. The tire guy who helped me out on Sunday ground down some rust on the inside of the wheel, but said it looked to be in good shape. Luckily, the place I chained it to tonight (called and left a message, again) is a farm and tractor place. It's a Firestone dealer, too, so I may go with the original NDT tires.

I guess I'm going another direction here. I'm trailering it tomorrow, picking up 2 new military rims, and I'm going to try to use some original(ish) tires. I did find this on CL
7.5x16 military tires: Will these fit?

Quote:
I have ten 7.50x16 LT tires made by Specialty Tire Co of America in non-directional tread. These are dated 2004, but have never been mounted on wheels. Some are marked as cosmetic blemished tires. Five are 8 ply and five are ten ply. Price is $92 each or $900 for all ten. I will sell in lots of either three or ten.






These may be my best (cheapest!) route, with new tubes. Will the 7.5x16 fit on the original rim?


My wife is gonna kill me....
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Old 04-14-2015, 07:35 PM
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I don't know how wide you can go on the stock wheels, but 215 85 is the closest size to the stock 700 x 16. That may or may not have anything to do with your flat. (I'd lean toward not)

Great looking M416. Based on the bed rails, it looks like it's in really good shape. Does it still have the drains in the bed?


I have to wonder, I'm running tubeless tires on my M151A1, as well as two spare tires for my M416. I always assumed the tire shop that mounted them didn't use the tubes, but I have to wonder now if that's not the case.
Yes, both drains are there, the cover for one is rusted a bit (the worst rust on the entire rig). I plan on popping it off and taking it to a sheet metal place to have it re-fab'ed. The plugs are a little stiff, but still work.

I hope I get to actually use them soon!
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Old 04-14-2015, 08:23 PM   #23
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Hope you make it home with no more interruptions.
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Old 04-14-2015, 09:15 PM   #24
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I found tires for my Willys Jeep and trailer and they are Coker/Firestones from Summit racing.

They are 7.00X15 and a bit more pricy than what you are looking at ($138 ea) but I'm very happy with them: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cok-676469/overview/

Also, here is a link for the Army Technical Manual on the M416 you might be interested in: http://www.jeepdraw.com/TM_9-2330-251-14.pdf
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Old 04-14-2015, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
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I found tires for my Willys Jeep and trailer and they are Coker/Firestones from Summit racing.

They are 7.00X15 and a bit more pricy than what you are looking at ($138 ea) but I'm very happy with them: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cok-676469/overview/

Also, here is a link for the Army Technical Manual on the M416 you might be interested in: http://www.jeepdraw.com/TM_9-2330-251-14.pdf
Thanks Beastmaster, I had a later version of that manual. This one is a little more user-friendly.

I've seen those with Summit Racing. The tire place I took it to is a farm/tractor tire place in rural IL, and they had a Firestone sign on the door. I may see if they can price out the 7.00x16. If anyone nearby would have them or can get them, it would be a place like this.

But I am intrigued by the 7.5x16, especially the price. If anyone knows if those will fit on the stock military rims, I would be eternally grateful.

Thanks again to all for your help!
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Old 04-14-2015, 10:50 PM   #26
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Sorry to hear you had trouble getting her home but man... that's an awesome trailer for the money! Been searching for one for quite a while. I can't wait to see how yours turns out.
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Old 04-15-2015, 06:32 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scipio337 View Post
Thanks Beastmaster, I had a later version of that manual. This one is a little more user-friendly.

I've seen those with Summit Racing. The tire place I took it to is a farm/tractor tire place in rural IL, and they had a Firestone sign on the door. I may see if they can price out the 7.00x16. If anyone nearby would have them or can get them, it would be a place like this.

But I am intrigued by the 7.5x16, especially the price. If anyone knows if those will fit on the stock military rims, I would be eternally grateful.

Thanks again to all for your help!
Okay, just an FYI on these tires. They say Firestone on them but they are not made by Firestone. Coker bought the molds from Firestone a while back and just never took the Firestone logo off when they started making the tires.
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Old 04-15-2015, 09:29 AM
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Thanks. The tractor place said they can get the 700x16 military NDT for $144.15 each. About the same as others.

I may post on the expedition portal to see about the 7.5x16. I'm guessing it would fit, only 0.5 wider, but want to be 100% sure. Saving $150 on 3 tires is nothing to sneeze at.
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Old 04-15-2015, 10:49 AM   #29
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Another great resource for everything related to military vehicles is the G503 Forum.

G503 Military Vehicle Message Forums ā€¢ Index page
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Old 04-15-2015, 08:24 PM
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Question about the 7.5x16 posted on the G503 forum. From what I can tell, it's about the same size as an 235/85R16.

Let's see how good my google-fu is.

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