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Old 11-09-2016, 09:11 AM   #31
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Update! On my drive home yesterday, I experienced some flickering. Not enough to bother me but I plan on talking to the dealer today so see if I flash was required or if it can be fixed with anti-flicker harnesses.

So I may be wrong from my initial post when I said it doesn't need a flash. Stay tuned.
Add "Dealer Installed Quad LED Headlights" and "LMK" to your build codes. Make sure to clear all BOMs.
See what it does.
Check by shining them on a wall or piece of cardboard at very close distance. Much harder to see flickering at distances.

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Old 11-09-2016, 09:16 AM   #32
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Great review, they look great! Keep us posted on the flickering, but they are better than I would have thought. Congrats on the score.

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Old 11-09-2016, 09:31 AM   #33
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I sent a request to MOPAR for a set to test. I see it as a very positive and encouraging thing that they actually listened to our input/requests and came out with LED headlights. I'd like to think that it's a sign of a genuine interest to better the breed for the true enthusiast market.
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Old 11-09-2016, 10:08 AM   #34
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Old 11-09-2016, 10:27 AM   #35
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I don't think there is a good way to make it black. Unlike JW Speaker, this still uses reflector housings for the low beams. I had the same thoughts initally but I changed my mind and they grew on me.
I had a feeling that this would be the case. Either way anything is better than stock. haha.
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Old 11-09-2016, 10:33 AM   #36
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as soon as these are sub $500 it is a purchase for me. I can wait for it!
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Old 11-09-2016, 11:09 AM
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As @Hilldweller said, sometimes it sucks to be a first adopter. So far I called 3 dealers and spoke with Quadratec and none of them have any idea if I need a flash. Most help I have so far is from Bill!
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Old 11-09-2016, 11:21 AM   #38
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Subscribed and looking forward to the review after some good snow.

Remember take pics and record exact weather conditions, snow amount, wind direction, barometer, humidity....
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Old 11-09-2016, 12:11 PM   #39
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Well this looks promising.
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Old 11-09-2016, 12:36 PM   #40
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Go to the link posted, add 1 each of 68304050AA and 68304051AA to your cart, then go to Checkout, put "take5" in the coupon section and hit the 'apply' button.

BAM!!! Another 5% off, putting them at $515 for the pair. You're welcome!
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Old 11-09-2016, 12:43 PM
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Update: Spoke to a few more dealers. This is my first experience with LED headlights. After talking with dealers and researching via the Google machine, I have determined that this flickering I am witnessing is not strobe-like. You have to concentrate pretty hard to see the variation and it is slight. The light never goes close to going out. If I had to guess, it goes from 100% to 80% for a less than a quarter of a second. Apparently this sort of flickering is "normal" with LED lights?

I still plan to find out more but that is the latest update I have.
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:27 PM   #42
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What you are seeing is probably the Pulse Width Modulation in action.

If you look directly at the light it appears to be on all the time, but if you turn your head kinda quick you can see the flicker. Is that what you are seeing?

If so, that is normal. LED's work best using PWM which is effectively turning on and off the LED at such a rapid rate that our eyes can barely perceive it because of the way our brain fills in the gaps.

You should be able to experience the same flickering when looking at any LED taillights (Prius and Cadillac are the most prominent)
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:33 PM   #43
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...Apparently this sort of flickering is "normal" with LED lights?....
No, not at all.

Something is wrong.
Headlights on automobiles have to be constant. A motorcycle is permitted to have a "headlight modulator" which varies the intensity; the purpose is conspicuity. And it may only do that during daylight hours, have a light sensor to shut the modulator off.
Auto headlights can't do that at all. Just a LEO car.

Most LEDs need a nominal 9v to light up. Some will tolerate a dip, some won't. That's why the JK PWM duty cycle that I've measured in the past (4.6v to 12.6v) made LED headlights pulse/flicker.
Historically we mitigated that with an adapter containing a capacitor ---- smoothed out that dip below the 9v threshold.
JWS released the 8700-Evo-J that didn't need an adapter; the capacitor was built in.
But what if Mother Jeep programmed an new duty cycle for the '17 PWM? Made it 9.5v to 12.5 for instance? Then you wouldn't need the added expense or complexity of adding caps, diodes, resistors, etc.
Could be.
You need to test a '17 to find out (or have a MOPAR engineer tell you). I have meters that can do it. A multimeter, unless it's a very high-end unit like mine, won't be sensitive enough to tell you.
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:35 PM   #44
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What you are seeing is probably the Pulse Width Modulation in action.

If you look directly at the light it appears to be on all the time, but if you turn your head kinda quick you can see the flicker. Is that what you are seeing?

If so, that is normal. LED's work best using PWM which is effectively turning on and off the LED at such a rapid rate that our eyes can barely perceive it because of the way our brain fills in the gaps.

You should be able to experience the same flickering when looking at any LED taillights (Prius and Cadillac are the most prominent)
No....
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:46 PM
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Something is wrong.

You need to test a '17 to find out (or have a MOPAR engineer tell you). I have meters that can do it. A multimeter, unless it's a very high-end unit like mine, won't be sensitive enough to tell you.
Just turned on a 17 again. Even with a poor backdrop I didn't see an ounce of flicker with the naked eye. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this before sub17 owners choose to buy take-offs or new from online.
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:47 PM   #46
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Go to the link posted, add 1 each of 68304050AA and 68304051AA to your cart, then go to Checkout, put "take5" in the coupon section and hit the 'apply' button.

BAM!!! Another 5% off, putting them at $515 for the pair. You're welcome!
Even better!

Note to self... Do not unsubscribe from thread.
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:58 PM   #47
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Just turned on a 17 again. Even with a poor backdrop I didn't see an ounce of flicker with the naked eye. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this before sub17 owners choose to buy take-offs or new from online.
Right; no headlight flicker is permitted.
Best case violation is a "fix-it ticket" and worst case is "impersonating LEO"...
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Old 11-09-2016, 02:17 PM   #48
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Guys,

With all due respect I know what I am talking about. I am an electronics geek and I have fashioned my own LED taillights and turnsignals on several of my previous vehicles. Now, it may not be the same scenario with the Jeep as I am new to them.

But there is NO law on the books saying manufacturers can not use a Pulse Width Modulator on headlight bulbs. The "flicker" I am referring to with PWM is generally NOT perceptable to the naked eye. Have you ever seen a video of LED's and it looks like the LED is flickering? That is the PWM in action.

I can show you on Vw's where they use PWM to dim the headlight bulb for DRL purposes to extend the life of the bulb. Like I said above, when a PWM is used the LED is effectively turning on and off at such a rapid rate that our eyes can barely perceive it. When a PWM is used with a filament bulb, the filament can not cool off as quick as an LED can shut off so the light appears dimmer instead of off.

When a PWM is used, the light is not literally flashing off and on at a rate we can see.

As Hockeyman said "I have determined that this flickering I am witnessing is not strobe-like. You have to concentrate pretty hard to see the variation and it is slight. "
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Old 11-09-2016, 02:33 PM   #49
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PWM is power delivery but it is also an intelligent circuit. I work with EEs that design PWM circuits, software, interfaces, etc. I've mapped the entire PWM circuit on my old JK...
The purpose of the headlight circuit in particular is more than energy management; it is designed to monitor faults. PWM is a two way street.

Which is moot ---- if the headlight can be perceived to be blinking/flickering/modulating, it is not legal.
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Old 11-09-2016, 02:48 PM
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Right; no headlight flicker is permitted.
Best case violation is a "fix-it ticket" and worst case is "impersonating LEO"...
Hey now, it's not that bad! The average person wouldn't be able to tell. FYI Jeep Chat is of ZERO assistance too.
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Old 11-09-2016, 02:49 PM   #51
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Mine arrive Friday from QT - I have a 2014 Sport S so the flicker issue is of interest to me also.
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Old 11-09-2016, 02:59 PM   #52
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Wonder if they're DRL compatible.
I use my parking lights as DRL's.
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Old 11-09-2016, 03:03 PM   #53
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Which is moot ---- if the headlight can be perceived to be blinking/flickering/modulating, it is not legal.
Not arguing, but I notice my OEM headlights flicker.
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Old 11-09-2016, 03:35 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJIHdR7BHs

I am experiencing what is occurring at 1:35 exactly.
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Old 11-09-2016, 03:54 PM
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All the anti-flicker harnesses I see are H13 to H4 and the 2017s plug direct into the OEM H13 housing.

Beyond that, a friend I know that works at a dealer said they don't have a flash available for these lights.

As of right now it appears I am SOL.......
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Old 11-09-2016, 04:47 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by hockeyman474 View Post
All the anti-flicker harnesses I see are H13 to H4 and the 2017s plug direct into the OEM H13 housing.

Beyond that, a friend I know that works at a dealer said they don't have a flash available for these lights.

As of right now it appears I am SOL.......
I spoke to 2 dealers got 2 different answers:
Dealer 1: No Flash (QT also said no flash)
Dealer 2: Flash required ( Dealer Installed LED)
Mine arrive on the 15th - let you know then!
I ordered the fogs also they arrive Friday - I will update on those.

BTW - all LED's flicker the issue is the frequency & if it becomes visible. A flicker checker (spinning top with black & white markings on it) would show you the actual frequency of the flicker. This flicker becomes more visible if there are changes in the electricity feeding the LED. Generally more visible @ 100hz- & invisible at 500hz+. Illumination intensity & degree of light dark adaptation also factor into making the flicker visible as well as retina position. Your vision can see led flicker in certain conditions, especially your peripheral vision or while scanning objects father away with light dark variations in what you are viewing.
Not that any of what I wrote helps solve the problem.
There is a flash for the Mopar Performance LED & apparently it adjusts the minimum voltage allowed. Don't know if it is compatible with these headlights.
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Old 11-09-2016, 04:48 PM   #57
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I checked with my dealers parts dept yesterday about ordering these and he showed both the right and left side part numbers being flagged for a recall. He said they will most likely be correcting an issue and updating the part.
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Old 11-09-2016, 05:03 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by hockeyman474 View Post
All the anti-flicker harnesses I see are H13 to H4 and the 2017s plug direct into the OEM H13 housing.

Beyond that, a friend I know that works at a dealer said they don't have a flash available for these lights.

As of right now it appears I am SOL.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyman474 View Post
All the anti-flicker harnesses I see are H13 to H4 and the 2017s plug direct into the OEM H13 housing.

Beyond that, a friend I know that works at a dealer said they don't have a flash available for these lights.

As of right now it appears I am SOL.......
You can use H4 to H13 pigtails next to anti-flicker adapter: https://www.amazon.com/iJDMTOY-Adapt...dp/B00DRGW14M/

Or just cut off H4 jack from anti flicker adapter and replace it with H13
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Old 11-09-2016, 05:30 PM   #59
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Actually, there are H13-H13 anti-flicker modules (didn't know they exist): 2x H13 LED Headlight Canbus Error Free Anti Flicker Resistor Canceller Decoder | eBay
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Old 11-10-2016, 08:24 AM
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I checked with my dealers parts dept yesterday about ordering these and he showed both the right and left side part numbers being flagged for a recall. He said they will most likely be correcting an issue and updating the part.
That is not something I want to hear but I haven't heard of any of these issues.

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