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Old 08-18-2018, 07:57 AM
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$3,500 Incentive "American Cars, American Jobs"

Aug 17, 2018 at 1:08pm

By: Anthony Alaniz, Associate Editor
Revoking a tax cut for automakers would pay for the program.
Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-OH) introduced a bill to help Americans buy American-made cars. Called the American Cars, American Jobs Act, the bill proposes giving a $3,500 incentive to customers who buy a new America-made vehicle. The incentive is available for new-car purchases and qualifying five-year leases.
Brown’s bill also proposes revoking “a special GOP tax cut on overseas profits for auto manufacturers that ship jobs overseas" to pay for the temporary program. Vehicles with at least 45 percent of materials form the U.S. and Canada would qualify for the program.
“There are two simple parts: customers who buy cars made in America get a discount and corporations that send jobs overseas lose a special tax break,” Brown said in the bill's announcement. “We shouldn’t be handing out 50 percent off coupons to companies that send jobs overseas.”
Brown’s office listed nearly 100 vehicles that would qualify (PDF) for the program, which includes every passenger vehicle made in his home state. Vehicles on the list include the Jeep Wrangler, Ford F-150, Acura MDX, Honda Ridgeline, Mercedes C-Class, Infiniti QX60, and many more.
“American autoworkers have built the cars our families have driven for decades, and they need our support,” said Rich Rankin, UAW Region 2-B Director. “Sen. Brown’s bill does just that. The American Cars, American Jobs Act takes important steps to level the playing field for the Ohio auto industry and to make sure Ohio’s tradition of excellence in auto manufacturing continues.
In Brown’s announcement, the senator called out GM for its decision to announce producing the new Chevy Blazer in Mexico the same day the company ended the second shift at its Lordstown, Ohio plant.
Right now, the bill is just a proposal, and likely several months away from a vote consideration in the U.S. Senate.
Source: Sen. Sherrod Brown via The Car Connection
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Old 08-18-2018, 08:34 AM   #2
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interesting...I will be watching for this

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Old 08-18-2018, 10:56 AM   #3
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Subsidies don’t work. Worst part is, once introduced, subsidies become impossible to remove. Just look at the agriculture sector.

I rather have my tax money wasted some other way...
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Old 08-18-2018, 12:17 PM   #4
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I'm against it.

It smacks of protectionism, entitlements, socialism, etc.

I want free (& fair) markets and capitalism. It is not the government's place to provide handouts. If you build a better car... I'll buy it.
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:19 PM   #5
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What constitutes "American Made". Just assembled here? What about the hundreds of thousands of parts and pieces, the majority of which are made over seas?

This isn't 1940. It's a global trade economy and we'd be better off applying minds to preventing/punishing currency manipulation. That's what U.S. and European markets should be teaming up to prevent. People have this dream of the U.S. producing everything under the sun, and selling it to ourselves. That's just never going to happen because we don't have the raw resources or materials. Period.
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Old 08-18-2018, 02:16 PM   #6
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Interesting, I will have to watch this. Maybe time to buy a Toyota.
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Old 08-18-2018, 02:25 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by NoVA_Mike View Post
What constitutes "American Made". Just assembled here? What about the hundreds of thousands of parts and pieces, the majority of which are made over seas?

This isn't 1940. It's a global trade economy and we'd be better off applying minds to preventing/punishing currency manipulation. That's what U.S. and European markets should be teaming up to prevent. People have this dream of the U.S. producing everything under the sun, and selling it to ourselves. That's just never going to happen because we don't have the raw resources or materials. Period.
It's written above...

"Vehicles with at least 45 percent of materials form the U.S. and Canada would qualify for the program"
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Old 08-18-2018, 02:37 PM   #8
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"Vehicles with at least 45 percent of materials form the U.S. and Canada would qualify for the program..." & "...[Senator Brown] called out GM for its decision to announce producing the new Chevy Blazer in Mexico..."
What is Brown's rational for treating America's NAFTA partners differently?
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Old 08-18-2018, 04:58 PM   #9
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What is Brown's rational for treating America's NAFTA partners differently?
Yeah... I just looked at the law and it states that it uses the American Automotive Labeling Act (AALA) to determine content percentage. BUT even though the AALA says Mexico (which is geographically North America) is "America", this law says that Mexico doesn't count as "American". Only Canada and the U.S. are "American".

uh oh...

Somewhere, there's a Canadian who's furious about being called "American". So much so, that they're taking a moment to consider posting a firm yet thoughtfully worded reply.
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Old 08-18-2018, 05:41 PM   #10
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I thought we were at war with Canada? Eh?
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Old 08-18-2018, 05:53 PM   #11
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AALA v. NAFTA and how they relate to Sen. Brown's proposal is beyond my skill set

AALA
https://www.congress.gov/bill/102nd-...bill/4228/text

NAFTA
North American Free Trade Agreement ? Table of Contents
probably: Article 403: Automotive Goods
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Old 08-18-2018, 05:56 PM   #12
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Most subsidized goods and services just become more expensive. What's the point?
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Old 08-18-2018, 10:28 PM   #13
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I thought we were at war with Canada? Eh?
Apparently you're at war with just about everyone


As far as Canada goes though somebody is sending Americans a rather inaccurate message. The US's own records (and ours) indicates you ALREADY have an overall trade surplus with us so I have no idea why your Government seems to be including us in this NAFTA mess.
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Old 08-19-2018, 08:59 AM   #14
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"" Called the American Cars, American Jobs Act, the bill proposes giving a $3,500 incentive to customers who buy a new America-made vehicle. The incentive is available for new-car purchases and qualifying five-year leases.
Vehicles with at least 45 percent of materials form the U.S. and Canada would qualify for the program. ""

the last part of this guys "idea" should show him that the auto industry is global. no mexico ? sheesh
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Old 08-19-2018, 09:30 AM   #15
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Any rebate given by the government will just be absorbed by the dealers in the form of less discounts off MSRP. It's a joke and a waste of money unless you just want to give money to the dealers. Use that money to fix the roads.
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Old 08-19-2018, 12:55 PM   #16
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Any rebate given by the government will just be absorbed by the dealers in the form of less discounts off MSRP. It's a joke and a waste of money unless you just want to give money to the dealers. Use that money to fix the roads.
Of course that is what they tell you. Before this gets passed if it does we will have the 2019 new car pricing sheet. I will still get the discounted price I want plus the rebate. These are the time when it pays to pay cash.
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Old 08-19-2018, 01:22 PM   #17
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Of course that is what they tell you. Before this gets passed if it does we will have the 2019 new car pricing sheet. I will still get the discounted price I want plus the rebate. These are the time when it pays to pay cash.
You are a smarter shopper than most.
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Old 08-19-2018, 01:35 PM   #18
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You are a smarter shopper than most.
After nearly 100 cars, trucks motorcycles and trailers purchased in my life I had better be. They need the sale I don't need the vehicle. Either meet my price or I will go elsewhere and it is always a fair offer. Now days I just let the internet do the work. I say I am interest in whatever vehicle and see who comes back with the best price. Many times these fly and drive deals pay for the airfare, the hotels and the gas over buying local. It makes for a great mini vacation.
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Old 08-19-2018, 01:44 PM   #19
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It's written above...

"Vehicles with at least 45 percent of materials form the U.S. and Canada would qualify for the program"
How far up the global supply chain, and how far down the rabbit hole, should this go?

A radiator, ECU, or body panel can be fabricated in the US by a subcontractor (automakers are mostly just assemblers these days), but what about their components?
And what about the raw materials? Steel from China or Pakistan may have been recycled from an US-sourced old boat or car, but where did that steel come from originally?

It'll end up being a very arbitrary criterion and an "incentive" with little impact IMO. It might be easier to just look at where direct assembly labor is spent.
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Old 08-19-2018, 01:53 PM   #20
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After nearly 100 cars, trucks motorcycles and trailers purchased in my life I had better be. They need the sale I don't need the vehicle. Either meet my price or I will go elsewhere and it is always a fair offer. Now days I just let the internet do the work. I say I am interest in whatever vehicle and see who comes back with the best price. Many times these fly and drive deals pay for the airfare, the hotels and the gas over buying local. It makes for a great mini vacation.
Before I purchased my 2018 JKU Recon I contacted a dealer in Texas about a fully-loaded 2017 JKU Recon with 7,000 miles it had priced at $43,000.

It costs about $1,300 to ship a vehicle from Texas to Washington State. I asked the dealer if they would be willing to sell the Jeep for $43,000, shipping included. I had been looking online for weeks; it was a fair offer. But they refused.

Three months later I get a text from the salesman to see if I am still interested. Apparently the offer I gave them three months prior was the best they got. “Sorry, I purchased a new 2018 Recon a month ago” I replied.

Dealers seem to have the shortsighted habit of assessing the merit of an offer by how long the vehicle has been sitting on their lot.
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Old 08-19-2018, 02:16 PM   #21
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Before I purchased my 2018 JKU Recon I contacted a dealer in Texas about a fully-loaded 2017 JKU Recon with 7,000 miles they had priced at $43,000.

It costs about $1,300 to ship a vehicle from Texas to Washington State. I asked the dealer if they would be willing to sell the Jeep for $43,000, shipping included. They refused.

Three months later I get a text from the salesman to see if I am still interested. Apparently the offer I gave them three months prior was the best they got. “Sorry, I purchased a new 2018 Recon a month ago” I replied.

Many dealers seem to assess the merit of an offer by how long the vehicle has been sitting on the lot.
True cost them money to keep it on the lot. When I bought mine it was a special order that was not complete correctly, the guy ordered a dual top and it came in as a soft top. And you know how slow soft top only sell around here. There screw up was my win. Sometimes it just works that way.
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Old 08-19-2018, 04:37 PM   #22
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Most subsidized goods and services just become more expensive. What's the point?
That was my thought as well.

I found it interesting that the "Wrangler" and "Wrangler JK" were listed as separate new vehicles which qualify in the PDF document of American made vehicles.
http://brown.senate.gov/download/auto-bill-vehicle-list

Can anyone show me the difference between a new Wrangler, and a new Wrangler JK?
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Old 08-19-2018, 05:20 PM   #23
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That was my thought as well.

I found it interesting that the "Wrangler" and "Wrangler JK" were listed as separate new vehicles which qualify in the PDF document of American made vehicles.
http://brown.senate.gov/download/auto-bill-vehicle-list

Can anyone show me the difference between a new Wrangler, and a new Wrangler JK?
The 2 are separate models being sold along side each other, so Jeep officially calls 2018 JKs "Wrangler JK." It's no longer just a chassis/model code.
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Old 08-19-2018, 05:34 PM   #24
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The 2 are separate models being sold along side each other, so Jeep officially calls 2018 JKs "Wrangler JK." It's no longer just a chassis/model code.

So there's a separate model "Wrangler"? Could you post a pic of this "Wrangler" which is a different model than the "Wrangler JK"? Or are they calling the "Wrangler JL" a "Wrangler"?
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Old 08-19-2018, 05:39 PM   #25
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so there's a separate model "wrangler"? Could you post a pic of this "wrangler" which is a different model than the "wrangler jk"? Or are they calling the "wrangler jl" a "wrangler"?
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Old 08-19-2018, 05:42 PM   #26
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My wife's Honda Pilot is made in Lincoln Alabama (yes, made) while my brother's brand new GMC Sierra is made in Mexico. Pathetic.
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Old 08-19-2018, 06:30 PM   #27
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My wife's Honda Pilot is made in Lincoln Alabama (yes, made) while my brother's brand new GMC Sierra is made in Mexico. Pathetic.
But if it wasn't for recent bailouts GM wouldn't exist. Any one who backs government control of private business is an idiot.
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Old 08-19-2018, 06:34 PM   #28
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So there's a separate model "Wrangler"? Could you post a pic of this "Wrangler" which is a different model than the "Wrangler JK"? Or are they calling the "Wrangler JL" a "Wrangler"?
Just pull up the Jeep web sight. It list the All-New Wrangler and the Wrangler JK. It is listed as 2 separate models. Stupid IMO but that is what it is.
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Old 08-19-2018, 06:51 PM   #29
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So there's a separate model "Wrangler"? Could you post a pic of this "Wrangler" which is a different model than the "Wrangler JK"? Or are they calling the "Wrangler JL" a "Wrangler"?
Correct, the JL is just a "Wrangler." So now when selling both Wranglers they can differentiate the 2, as well as make it easier when it comes time to order parts/look up part numbers.
It's like when GM sold their old style pick ups alongside the new generation. The new Silverado was just "Silverado" the old generation became "Silverado Classic"
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Old 08-20-2018, 08:08 AM   #30
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45% doesn't seem like much. Also, why not "made in the USA"?? When I had my Tundra I always had arguments with people. They would call it a jap truck. I would say it's got more American parts (like 80%) than their Chevy, AND it's made in the USA while theirs was made in Mexico. I think the stipulation should be that it's made in the USA in addition to a higher parts content.

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