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Old 04-27-2016, 07:45 PM
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4.10s and Shift Points. Tranny shifting up and down too often

I have a AEV Pro Cal not sure if that can help w my shift points but my tranny seems like it's working way too hard. I currently have 4.10s on my 13' JKU w 35s and any time there are (it seems) any elevation changes in road conditions the RPMs tend to drop low enough to cause a downshift. Wondering if there's a simple fix w Pro Cal (tire size, shift points, etc) or bringing it to dealer to appropriate the ECU to accommodate tire size and or shift points and possibly update the transmission thru a flash... Just some thoughts, any advise is much appreciated

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Old 04-27-2016, 09:15 PM   #2
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If you set the correct tire size with your Procal then your shift points should be fine.

Typically you measure your tire height under load on the Jeep then use the Procal to enter the correct setting.

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Old 04-27-2016, 09:26 PM   #3
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I have 35s on my JK geared at 4:10 as well, and the tire size is set with Procal.

It does downshift sooner, but that is expected due to running larger tires at the same gear ratio which generates lower RPMs at the same speed in the same gear and also having more rotational mass.

You can alleviate the RPM issue with a regear, but the rotational mass issue is just weight. The only solution for that is to either get really thin larger tires that have the same mass as smaller tires, or to just not have big tires.
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Old 04-27-2016, 09:31 PM   #4
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I also used the Procal to adjust for tire size, and my speedo now is right on the money. However, I experience similar shift issues. See my thread at https://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/tw...s-1701586.html. While the Procal does correct the speedo, I don't think that it does anything for shift points. I would think that a speedo correction is a simple matter of mathematics. Shift points have to be more complex.
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Old 04-27-2016, 10:31 PM   #5
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Yes the procal only effects the speedo not shift points. While not terrible your trans is trying to base its shift points for mpgs under the assumptions of torque needed for the stock set up. Regear will help the but of course isn't cheap.
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Old 05-13-2016, 06:46 AM
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Ok all good info but why then is it that my buddy's JKU Sport a 3.23s shifts way less often it seems. Even my 99' w I believe 3.23s seems to not downshift so god damn frequently... You would think the physics of this comparison would certainly point to more downshifting w a highway gear
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Old 05-13-2016, 06:57 AM   #7
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Not totally apples to apples here, 35" with 4.10 and a manual 6 speed. Difference is I am controlling the shift points. On a flat road I don't even use 6th gear until over ~50. Traveling in the mountains here in western NC, I had to down shift from 6 to 5 even doing 70mph as it was loosing speed. So where the auto is trying to make the best use of all the gears, I just pick one because I don't feel like shifting up and down each hill in the road. I see a 4.56 gear change in the future.
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Old 05-13-2016, 09:12 AM   #8
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Ok all good info but why then is it that my buddy's JKU Sport a 3.23s shifts way less often it seems. Even my 99' w I believe 3.23s seems to not downshift so god damn frequently... You would think the physics of this comparison would certainly point to more downshifting w a highway gear

Your 99 had less gears to shift through. A 5 speed auto trans will, by design, shift up and down more often than a 3 or 4 speed.

My 2015 w/4.10's and 35's always seemed to up shift too early, especially at lower speeds. After using the procal, it seems like it doesn't do this nearly as often.
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Old 05-13-2016, 02:10 PM   #9
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It isn't exactly a powerful motor. Then with heavy 35s, this will happen. You may prefer to regear or switch to lighter tires. My 35" MTRs areas heavy as I will go with 4.10s. I tried Nitto MTs and it got worse.
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Old 05-13-2016, 03:06 PM   #10
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For people with new vehicles, I want to add that I have seen my shift points improve over time. I am at about 4700 miles on AT/4.10/Rubicon wheels&tires, and it's only in the last 1000 miles that I feel the shift points are feeling closer to "right" vs "late". Some of that is probably learning curve on my part, but I also think there's a little bit of gear break-in going on along the drivetrain.

But now I'm planning to go and mess that all up with heavy 34" Toyos.
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Old 05-13-2016, 03:36 PM   #11
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When you use a Procal to make the proper adjustment for whatever tire size you're running, that takes care of the shift points with an auto trans. A Procal doesn't actually make a separate "shift" point adjustment. The shift points are more accurate based upon the proper tire size that's entered. It will also make an adjustment if the gears are changed.
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Old 05-13-2016, 04:03 PM   #12
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Yep, make sure that your speedo matches your GPS, if it doesn't, then use your Procal or similar to correct that.
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Old 05-13-2016, 05:02 PM   #13
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Yep, make sure that your speedo matches your GPS, if it doesn't, then use your Procal or similar to correct that.
I haven't used a Procal before and have very little idea how it works, but mine is in the box awaiting my lift and tires. Question: Is it possible with the Procal to adjust AT shift points and speedometer independently, or are they tied together by just one parameter (tire size)?
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Old 05-13-2016, 05:52 PM   #14
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When you use a Procal to make the proper adjustment for whatever tire size you're running, that takes care of the shift points with an auto trans. A Procal doesn't actually make a separate "shift" point adjustment. The shift points are more accurate based upon the proper tire size that's entered. It will also make an adjustment if the gears are changed.
I'm not so sure about this. It does have a transfer case adjustment and one for gear swaps. AFAIK, the tire size adjustment is simply mathematical. It may have a coincidental affect on the trans, but that's probably due to vehicle speed accuracy and the way that makes you drive. With my setup, I didn't notice much difference in shift points, which still have some room for improvement. My speedo is right on the money +-1 mph, based on GPS. I think that a setup like the Bully Dog or ProComp can handle shift points directly.
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Old 05-13-2016, 05:54 PM   #15
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I haven't used a Procal before and have very little idea how it works, but mine is in the box awaiting my lift and tires. Question: Is it possible with the Procal to adjust AT shift points and speedometer independently, or are they tied together by just one parameter (tire size)?
There is no separate adjustment just for shift points (auto) with a Procal. Tire size adjustment takes care of shift points and speedo. However, you might have to make a slight adjustment regarding tire size in order to get to the most accurate speedo and shift point adjustments. You might not have to. Follow the directions for tire size and go from there.
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Old 05-13-2016, 06:08 PM   #16
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I'm not so sure about this. It does have a transfer case adjustment and one for gear swaps. AFAIK, the tire size adjustment is simply mathematical. It may have a coincidental affect on the trans, but that's probably due to vehicle speed accuracy and the way that makes you drive. With my setup, I didn't notice much difference in shift points, which still have some room for improvement. My speedo is right on the money +-1 mph, based on GPS. I think that a setup like the Bully Dog or ProComp can handle shift points directly.
I didn't see anything with the Bully Dog performance programmer that addresses only shift points. I haven't seen that with any of the popular programmers. I don't think that the programming is capable of being that sophisticated. I've only seen that tire size adjustment is supposed to take care of the speedo and make shift points more accurate than if the tire size hasn't been programmed. The speedo, auto trans., tire size are all linked through the computer. Some owners don't notice a substantial change with shift points depending upon what programing was inputed.
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Old 05-13-2016, 06:18 PM   #17
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I have a AEV Pro Cal not sure if that can help w my shift points but my tranny seems like it's working way too hard. I currently have 4.10s on my 13' JKU w 35s and any time there are (it seems) any elevation changes in road conditions the RPMs tend to drop low enough to cause a downshift. Wondering if there's a simple fix w Pro Cal (tire size, shift points, etc) or bringing it to dealer to appropriate the ECU to accommodate tire size and or shift points and possibly update the transmission thru a flash... Just some thoughts, any advise is much appreciated
Flashpaqs allows you to adjust shift points. I have one on my 2010 auto with 3:73 gears. I'm running 35x12.5-17 ko2 tires and my shift points are as good as they were before I put the 35's on. I have never considered regearing since I have started using the flashpaqs.
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Old 05-13-2016, 08:02 PM   #18
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According to the user manual the Flashpaq for a JK has a separate category for shift points as stated above, and shift pressure. A Procal doesn't have that feature.
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Old 05-13-2016, 08:03 PM   #19
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Either way, you're dealing with a motor that has pretty sad torque #s at the rear wheels. If I don't push it I'll climb this 50-mile section of mountain highway mostly in 3rd. If I try to push it past 65, it will jump to 2nd on the steeper sections. If I have a passenger and gear, it is worse. It's just the nature of the beast, in my opinion. If I'm doing 70 and a slight incline or headwind shows up, it is going to 4th in a heartbeat, and 3rd is next. Since I have not regeared, I deal with it. Regearing here is expensive, and I may just put that $$ towards a V8 conversion. My AEV Procal did not real change the shift points too much- maybe slightly. It shifts fine but the available torque for 35s"+ tires is just not there. My 2-door Rubi did the same thing....just a little more bearable due to the few hundred lb weight advantage.
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Old 05-13-2016, 08:17 PM   #20
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Either way, you're dealing with a motor that has pretty sad torque #s at the rear wheels. If I don't push it I'll climb this 50-mile section of mountain highway mostly in 3rd. If I try to push it past 65, it will jump to 2nd on the steeper sections. If I have a passenger and gear, it is worse. It's just the nature of the beast, in my opinion. If I'm doing 70 and a slight incline or headwind shows up, it is going to 4th in a heartbeat, and 3rd is next. Since I have not regeared, I deal with it. Regearing here is expensive, and I may just put that $$ towards a V8 conversion. My AEV Procal did not real change the shift points too much- maybe slightly. It shifts fine but the available torque for 35s"+ tires is just not there. My 2-door Rubi did the same thing....just a little more bearable due to the few hundred lb weight advantage.
Mine never does that. I can drive in the mountains and mine will jump back to 4th but I've never had it drop to 3rd since adjusting my shift point. If I am driving through the mountains I normally turn my OD off and I'm fine, it stays in 4th.

The flashpaqs does have options for shift point adjustments, and it also does the wheel size adjustments as well as Tire pressure adjustment. All these are separate options and can be used for auto or manual transmissions
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Old 05-13-2016, 08:38 PM   #21
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Either way, you're dealing with a motor that has pretty sad torque #s at the rear wheels. If I don't push it I'll climb this 50-mile section of mountain highway mostly in 3rd. If I try to push it past 65, it will jump to 2nd on the steeper sections. If I have a passenger and gear, it is worse. It's just the nature of the beast, in my opinion. If I'm doing 70 and a slight incline or headwind shows up, it is going to 4th in a heartbeat, and 3rd is next. Since I have not regeared, I deal with it. Regearing here is expensive, and I may just put that $$ towards a V8 conversion. My AEV Procal did not real change the shift points too much- maybe slightly. It shifts fine but the available torque for 35s"+ tires is just not there. My 2-door Rubi did the same thing....just a little more bearable due to the few hundred lb weight advantage.
I think you've summed it up. The Procal adjusts the speedo quite nicely, but it's little more than adjusting the system for tire rotation per mile. I'm sure that more goes into shift points, such as terrain, tire weight, etc., which the Procal doesn't address, at least not directly. With my 35s, I run in 3rd if I want to do 65-70 up a 6-7% grade. I still wouldn't trade my setup, as it performs great off road, and that's why I went to the setup in the first place.

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