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Old 02-10-2019, 12:44 PM
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4x4 - LSD - Locker question

After purchasing my first Jeep (2018 JK Willy) I started reading on this forum. I knew nothing about 4x4's prior to buying this Jeep. I should have done research because I am shocked at what I am reading. Is this correct?

A 4x4 that has a LSD isn't really a 4x4? When it is in 4 wheel drive you are really only getting poser to two wheels?

If so, why do they even say it's 4 wheel drive?

I have a co-worker who rock crawls. He told me yes this is basically true and if I want true 4 wheel drive I need a locker. ARB was his suggestion. 3 grand to install them on both axles, and the air compressor. Or I could have bought a Rubicon because they come with lockers! Ugh

Thx
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:54 PM   #2
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if you have a true LSD rear diff you ultimately end up with 3 wheel drive under certain traction conditions ie both rear tires and one front tire the the two back tires and the front tire that is getting the most traction. To be a true 4 wheel drive need a front locker as well. under the right circumstances you do have 4 wheel drive and at any given time all 4 tires will have power but not necessarily all at the same time if that makes sense. a wrangler with just rear lsd will go a lot of places that you would not believe.

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Old 02-10-2019, 12:55 PM
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Power, not poser
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:57 PM   #4
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The willys in 2018 also had a rear locker option instead of LSD. Mine has it. I think it was 1695.00?. That info sounds incomplete to me. Trac loc is the d44 rear LSD you have, true loc is the optional rear locker mine has and both have command Trac 4 wheel drive when you engage it.

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Old 02-10-2019, 01:01 PM
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if you have a true LSD rear diff you ultimately end up with 3 wheel drive under certain traction conditions ie both rear tires and one front tire the the two back tires and the front tire that is getting the most traction. To be a true 4 wheel drive need a front locker as well. under the right circumstances you do have 4 wheel drive and at any given time all 4 tires will have power but not necessarily all at the same time if that makes sense. a wrangler with just rear lsd will go a lot of places that you would not believe.
3 Wheels? Lord. Now I am even more confused haha. My 18 Willy I believe says on the sticker that it has Tru Loc or Tru Trak? Something like that. I will read it tonight when I get home and post exactly what it says.

Thanks!

P.S. Do yall recommend ARB?
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Old 02-10-2019, 01:04 PM   #6
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You have four wheel drive, you just don't have the ability to force all four wheels to drive at the same time. Lockers are a life saver offroad. ARB makes great ones if that's what you want to do.

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Old 02-10-2019, 01:08 PM   #7
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if you have a true LSD rear diff you ultimately end up with 3 wheel drive under certain traction conditions ie both rear tires and one front tire the the two back tires and the front tire that is getting the most traction. To be a true 4 wheel drive need a front locker as well. under the right circumstances you do have 4 wheel drive and at any given time all 4 tires will have power but not necessarily all at the same time if that makes sense. a wrangler with just rear lsd will go a lot of places that you would not believe.
3 Wheels? Lord. Now I am even more confused haha. My 18 Willy I believe says on the sticker that it has Tru Loc or Tru Trak? Something like that. I will read it tonight when I get home and post exactly what it says.

Thanks!

P.S. Do yall recommend ARB?
Right side of the window sticker will tell you if it has the $1500 option for the Tru-Lock

What are your plans for the Jeep? Are you going to rock crawl with your buddy? Or just occasional tails and mostly street time? Lockers aren’t completely necessary depending on your use.
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Old 02-10-2019, 01:09 PM   #8
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watch these videos they will explain a lot


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Old 02-10-2019, 01:10 PM
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The willys in 2018 also had a rear locker option instead of LSD. Mine has it. I think it was 1695.00?. That info sounds incomplete to me. Trac loc is the d44 rear LSD you have, true loc is the optional rear locker mine has and both have command Trac 4 wheel drive when you engage it.

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My Willy was already built on the lot. So I couldn't have added it.

Ok I just got my window sticker it says exactly this:

Under Standard Equipment
Command-Trac Shift on the fly part time 4WD
Dana 44 Heavy Duty Rear Axle
Dana 30 Solid Front Axle

Willy Wheeler Edition 24K (May Replace Standard Equipment)
3.73 Front Rear Axle Ratio
Trac-Lok Differential Rear Axle

What does all this mean?
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Old 02-10-2019, 01:16 PM   #10
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My Willy was already built on the lot. So I couldn't have added it.

Ok I just got my window sticker it says exactly this:

Under Standard Equipment
Command-Trac Shift on the fly part time 4WD
Dana 44 Heavy Duty Rear Axle
Dana 30 Solid Front Axle

Willy Wheeler Edition 24K (May Replace Standard Equipment)
3.73 Front Rear Axle Ratio
Trac-Lok Differential Rear Axle

What does all this mean?
Watch the video's above your last post
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Old 02-10-2019, 01:19 PM
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Wow. That was good. Thanks! I feel a little better now
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Old 02-10-2019, 01:22 PM
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Right side of the window sticker will tell you if it has the $1500 option for the Tru-Lock

What are your plans for the Jeep? Are you going to rock crawl with your buddy? Or just occasional tails and mostly street time? Lockers aren’t completely necessary depending on your use.
Yea, mine says Trac-Lock. Bummer

No plans really other than pull it behind my RV. I just want to make sure I had a true 4x4. In case I go off road. Will I rock crawl one day? Probably. After I get the lockers.
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Old 02-10-2019, 01:27 PM   #13
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Yea, mine says Trac-Lock. Bummer

No plans really other than pull it behind my RV. I just want to make sure I had a true 4x4. In case I go off road. Will I rock crawl one day? Probably. After I get the lockers.
trac-loc does very well and you will get many places offroad just fine. literally you can do the rubicon trail with a wrangler equipped with trac-loc so I would not get to worried until you start getting more serious.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:49 PM   #14
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Yea, mine says Trac-Lock. Bummer

No plans really other than pull it behind my RV. I just want to make sure I had a true 4x4. In case I go off road. Will I rock crawl one day? Probably. After I get the lockers.
Lockers aren't a necessity, they're a luxury for most.
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Old 02-10-2019, 04:33 PM
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trac-loc does very well and you will get many places offroad just fine. literally you can do the rubicon trail with a wrangler equipped with trac-loc so I would not get to worried until you start getting more serious.
That makes me feel a lot better! Maybe I will try the Rubicon trail. Lemme google it.
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Old 02-10-2019, 04:37 PM
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Among other things it says I have to have lockers to do the Rubicon trail...?


A minimum of 35″ tires, front & rear lockers, tow points, skid plates, rocker panel protection and CB Radios are mandatory requirements for the Rubicon Trail Jeep Jamboree.
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Old 02-10-2019, 04:41 PM
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Sorry for dumb questions. Are my tires 35”? Sticker does not say. They are LT255/75R17C
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Old 02-10-2019, 04:50 PM   #18
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Among other things it says I have to have lockers to do the Rubicon trail...?


A minimum of 35″ tires, front & rear lockers, tow points, skid plates, rocker panel protection and CB Radios are mandatory requirements for the Rubicon Trail Jeep Jamboree.
don't tell all those people who have done without lockers that LOL. I have done it and while I used lockers a few times it was rare. jeep jamborees are group rides that require different things than just you and a buddy or two going out and doing it lol.
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Old 02-10-2019, 04:50 PM   #19
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Sorry for dumb questions. Are my tires 35”? Sticker does not say. They are LT255/75R17C
no stock are considered 32".
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Old 02-10-2019, 05:00 PM
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no stock are considered 32".
Ok. I won’t be doing the trail anytime soon. Not at least until my current tires need replacing.
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Old 02-10-2019, 05:23 PM
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The Rubicon Trail looks really cool!

So can I put 35inch tires on my 17inch rims that the Willy came with?
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Old 02-10-2019, 08:28 PM   #22
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Yea, mine says Trac-Lock. Bummer

No plans really other than pull it behind my RV. I just want to make sure I had a true 4x4. In case I go off road. Will I rock crawl one day? Probably. After I get the lockers.
Lockers aren't a necessity, they're a luxury for most.
Yep, my willys we as already on the lot with the optional locker. I didn't care if it had it or not. It was the only red one left practically anywhere by that time so I was buying it no matter what.
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:57 PM   #23
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Red is what's really important, lol.

As far as lockers, you can get by easily enough with just a rear locker. That's my plan for my (red) Willys.
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Old 02-11-2019, 04:24 PM   #24
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Even with open differentials you can go a lot of places. I ran open for a long time and climbed a lot of rocks. Even with lockers, I don't use them much. Almost never use the front.

You'll be fine with your setup for a long time to come.
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Old 02-11-2019, 05:08 PM   #25
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Sorry for dumb questions. Are my tires 35”? Sticker does not say. They are LT255/75R17C
32.1"

Tire calculator
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Old 02-11-2019, 05:11 PM   #26
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The Rubicon Trail looks really cool!

So can I put 35inch tires on my 17inch rims that the Willy came with?
You can put bigger tires on the stock wheels. If you put wider tires on, you will want to move the wheels out a little with wheel spacers. Or you can buy aftermarket wheels that do that for you. You need to do this because the wider tire will rub on the frame and/or suspension.

But the more important thing about bigger tires is that you need to make room in the fender wells for them. Two ways to get there. First is to "lift" the Jeep. You put in taller springs and longer shocks, along with some other bits here and there. That makes room for the bigger tires. Second is to change out the factory plastic fender flares for aftermarket flares that open up the space. Third option is to do both.

Tons of options are out there for lift kits and fender flares. Read through this thread for information on lift kits: https://www.wranglerforum.com/f202/b...jk-298665.html

Getting set up to run a trail like the Rubicon is not especially challenging. But you really want to do it right and there are many things to consider.

I would also suggest you spend time running more stock friendly Jeep trails before trying to tackle the Rubicon. Learn to drive the Jeep as-is off road for a while with a good group that can teach you what to do and what not to do. First off, you're challenged by not having lockers so you have to develop the skills of driving off road. Second, a Jeep with lockers can get you trouble a lot faster than one without. Learning without lockers will help keep you from getting in over your head too fast.

Also, regarding your initial questions, here is some introductory information on "traction aiding devices" (lockers and limited slip): The Basics of Differentials and Lockers

One other consideration for going with bigger tires is the gear ratio in the axles. This is a good start for understanding what happens with bigger tires and why you would want to consider swapping gears: Regearing Basics

That should get you started, and probably lead you to asking a bunch more questions.
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Old 02-11-2019, 06:32 PM
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You can put bigger tires on the stock wheels. If you put wider tires on, you will want to move the wheels out a little with wheel spacers. Or you can buy aftermarket wheels that do that for you. You need to do this because the wider tire will rub on the frame and/or suspension.

But the more important thing about bigger tires is that you need to make room in the fender wells for them. Two ways to get there. First is to "lift" the Jeep. You put in taller springs and longer shocks, along with some other bits here and there. That makes room for the bigger tires. Second is to change out the factory plastic fender flares for aftermarket flares that open up the space. Third option is to do both.

Tons of options are out there for lift kits and fender flares. Read through this thread for information on lift kits: https://www.wranglerforum.com/f202/b...jk-298665.html

Getting set up to run a trail like the Rubicon is not especially challenging. But you really want to do it right and there are many things to consider.

I would also suggest you spend time running more stock friendly Jeep trails before trying to tackle the Rubicon. Learn to drive the Jeep as-is off road for a while with a good group that can teach you what to do and what not to do. First off, you're challenged by not having lockers so you have to develop the skills of driving off road. Second, a Jeep with lockers can get you trouble a lot faster than one without. Learning without lockers will help keep you from getting in over your head too fast.

Also, regarding your initial questions, here is some introductory information on "traction aiding devices" (lockers and limited slip): The Basics of Differentials and Lockers

One other consideration for going with bigger tires is the gear ratio in the axles. This is a good start for understanding what happens with bigger tires and why you would want to consider swapping gears: Regearing Basics

That should get you started, and probably lead you to asking a bunch more questions.
Wow. Thanks for the info!

So, I cannot put 35’s on without modifications? Bummer
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Old 02-11-2019, 06:57 PM   #28
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Yep, my willys we as already on the lot with the optional locker. I didn't care if it had it or not. It was the only red one left practically anywhere by that time so I was buying it no matter what.
You could toss in a TORQ in the front and be fully locked for $500....


https://www.torqmasters.com/torq_loc..._differentials
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Old 02-11-2019, 06:58 PM   #29
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Wow. Thanks for the info!

So, I cannot put 35’s on without modifications? Bummer
Well.. You can. But then you have all kinds of problems with the tires rubbing on everything...
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:07 PM   #30
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You could toss in a TORQ in the front and be fully locked for $500....





https://www.torqmasters.com/torq_loc..._differentials
Ok I haven't seen that before. Any known issues with running it on the front with the factory rear locker in the back?

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