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Old 07-08-2019, 01:25 PM
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actual rpm with 4.56 or 4.88 with 315's

Hi. Looking for actual, not calculated, rpm from people running 4.56 or 4.88s with 315's and auto trans at 70 mph.

I have 17 JKUR auto with 315's and 4.10's. Its always felt alittle underpowered. Towed a 14' single axle trailer with RZR XP4, approx. 2500 lbs, and it sucked big time. Could barely maintain 65 up hills. Thinking of going to 4.56 or 4.88's. But at the same time need to be able to run 80 mph when not towing down the highway.

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Old 07-08-2019, 01:28 PM   #2
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315 is the tread width. you need to give us the tire diameter or at least the full tire code, so we can look up the tire diameter.
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Old 07-08-2019, 01:40 PM
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315/70r17
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Old 07-08-2019, 01:45 PM   #4
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... Towed a 14' single axle trailer with RZR XP4, approx. 2500 lbs, and it sucked big time. Could barely maintain 65 up hills.
Hah, I'm running 315/70R17 KO2s on 4.88 gears and a manual trans (which has an even lower final drive ratio IIRC) and I can't maintain 65 going up big hills even WITHOUT pulling a trailer! (unless I downshift and mash the pedal).

And I have a CAI and Magnaflow, which are "supposed" to add some HP and torque at WOT.

You might need to change your expectations on trailering and going up hills...

Going from a twin-turbo 3.5L F-150 to the Jeep reminds me of driving my old VW camper bus - you just can't be in a hurry, and you have to get used to dodging trucks in the slow lane.
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Old 07-08-2019, 02:01 PM   #5
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So.. our rigs are designed with 3.10 or 3.73 (a handful of 4.10's) and a max 32" tire. So nearly quadrupling (4 tires) the rotating mass by going to 35's and only changing gearing is supposed to fix towing abilities?

You need to add power. Nothing will fix the towing problem everyone creates by going bigger. Well, except a LS-1 or Hemi package.
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Old 07-08-2019, 02:14 PM   #6
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315/70r17
Which brand and which tire by that brand? Tire diameter for any given P-Metric size will differ from tire to tire and brand to brand.

My 315/70R17 GoodYear Duratracs, with 4.56 gears runs right around 2,500 RPM at 70 MPH cruising down the freeway. I have the 6 speed manual. The automatic will vary by just a little.

If you go to Gear Ratio Calculator, you can get pretty accurate results. The key is to find the "revolutions per mile" for the specific tire you are looking at. If you use that to enter your tire size, you'll find that it's pretty close.
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Old 07-08-2019, 02:15 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by RubiGobi View Post
Hi. Looking for actual, not calculated, rpm from people running 4.56 or 4.88s with 315's and auto trans at 70 mph.

I have 17 JKUR auto with 315's and 4.10's. Its always felt alittle underpowered. Towed a 14' single axle trailer with RZR XP4, approx. 2500 lbs, and it sucked big time. Could barely maintain 65 up hills. Thinking of going to 4.56 or 4.88's. But at the same time need to be able to run 80 mph when not towing down the highway.
Either gear set, 4.56 or 4.88 gears, will let you run 80 mph all day long on the highway. The difference between those two gear ratio's at 80 is only two or three hundred rpm.
If you want as much power at the wheels as you can get, go with 4.88 gears for that tire size. If you are worried about the extra few hundred rpms on the highway, go with 4.56 gears.
From what you say, I would go with 4.88 gears. But to each their own.
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Old 07-08-2019, 04:30 PM   #8
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Keep in mind that regearing will have no effect on your ability to maintain speed on hills. Let's just say you're currently turning 2000 RPM's in 5th gear at 65 MPH. You start up a hill and the trans downshifts to 4th, now your turning 2500 RPM's at 65 MPH. You hit the skinny pedal harder as you start to lose speed and the trans shifts to 3rd. Now your turning 3250 RPM's and can maintain 65 MPH.

Once you regear, your turning 3000 RPM's at 65 MPH in 5th gear. You start up the hill and the Jeep is able to maintain 65 MPH without downshifting. You haven't gained power, you're just able to maintain your speed in a higher gear because you are already turning higher RPM's.

For clarification, I just pulled those numbers out of the air to demonstrate my point.

The advantage to regearing is better acceleration due to the lower (numerically higher) gear ratio, but it wont provide the ability to pull a steep grade at a higher RPM. It also allows you to reach max available engine torque at a lower speed since you are spooling up the engine RPM's quicker.

I don't recall for sure off the top of my head, but I believe I am turning between 3000 and 3250 RPM's on my 2013 auto with 315/70 17's and 4.88's at 70 MPH.

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Old 07-08-2019, 04:51 PM
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I guess I should explain hill - gradual incline on the highway. not an actual steep hill.
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Old 07-08-2019, 04:55 PM
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between lift, tires, wheels, bumpers, winch, rock rails, ect, the jeep is heavier than stock. 4.56 would put me back at about stock rpms with stock tires and stock 4.10 gears. think I might be leaning towards 4.88s.
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Old 07-08-2019, 05:05 PM   #11
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Steep grade or slight incline, either way you are only preventing the trans from downshifting by regearing. Max speed up the grade wont increase.

I love my 4.88's around town and on the trails, but wish I had 4.56's when I'm on the highway. I don't like turning the higher RPM's constantly at highway speeds.

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Old 07-08-2019, 05:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubiGobi View Post
between lift, tires, wheels, bumpers, winch, rock rails, ect, the jeep is heavier than stock. 4.56 would put me back at about stock rpms with stock tires and stock 4.10 gears. think I might be leaning towards 4.88s.
You specifically asked for NOT a by-the-numbers answer, but my mind works a little different than some. (I like the research, but backed with real world results, angle.)

https://tiresize.com/calculator/ for 315/70R17 is 34.4" minus a bit for tire bulge (reference entering tire sizes with flashpaks), lets say 34". The stock tire size for a Rubicon is 255/75R17, Thats only 32.1"

Comparing this RPM chart, The stock RPM at 32", 4.10:1 and 70MPH, is 2502 RPM. Stepping up to 34" tires seems like a small step but its two factor. first, you need to step up to 4.56 Just to get your RPMs back

The second factor is weight. You've added all sorts of armor and accessories (as do we all), as well as the added centrifugal forces mentioned by @USStrongman . Even with the 4.56 step up, it will bog down quite a bit, but your computer will be more happy with the shift points (note your usage at top gear vs locked and unlocked torque converter).

You could always go further with the 4.88s. That will make a sizeable difference in performance that you will enjoy, but at the cost of higher highway RPMs. 70MPH now requires 2800 RPM at 70MPH, and at that speed here in Arizona, you'll get run off the road! You'll need 80MPH and push 3k consistently.



So the last question is, are you happy with screaming down the road, or screaming down the trail? I've gone through this same process to figure out my rig, and am quite happy with the results. (personal opinion, go big 4.88, if there's an inkling of running bigger tires in the future.) I do a ton of highway, so 4.56 was my choice.
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Old 07-08-2019, 08:41 PM   #13
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I get facts and numbers but the truth is I donít even notice the extra rpms with 4.88s compared to my 3.73s so Iím extremely happy I went 4.88s.

I also think going from 4.10 to 4.56 you might not feel much of a difference.


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Old 07-08-2019, 08:56 PM   #14
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Pardon my ignorance on gears, as I'm happy enough with my factory 4.10s to have not researched upgrading, but what is the difference between running 4.10s in 4th gear on the 5 speed Auto (1:1 trans gear ratio) vs 5th gear with 4.88s (overdrive with 0.83 ratio). 4.88*0.83=4.05, basically the same as 4.10. So for going up hills on the highway, don't I basically get the same thing as 4.88s by having the trans shift down to 4th (for free)?

I understand the initial get up and go in 1st can't be matched, but it seems higher speed uphill freeway driving is the top reason for wanting to regear. Offroad at least with the Rubi 4:1 TC, gears also seem not a big deal as the TC ratio is a much bigger factor than the axle ratio.
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Old 07-08-2019, 09:37 PM
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what rpm are you turning with what gear and what tire at 70 mph?
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Old 07-08-2019, 09:45 PM   #16
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and so far not one person has posted actual rpm's with what gear.
I know it's not exactly what you're asking for, but per my post above if you manually set your AT to 4th gear it should be basically the same as 5th gear with 4.88s. So you could go try driving down the freeway like that and see how it feels.
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Old 07-08-2019, 09:49 PM   #17
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315/70 17's with 4.88's and auto trans turning 2000 at 50 MPH and just slightly below 2500 approaching 60, so the 3000 RPM's at 70 I posted earlier should be right. Wasn't in an area I could run 70 to confirm though.

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Old 07-08-2019, 10:04 PM   #18
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Pardon my ignorance on gears, as I'm happy enough with my factory 4.10s to have not researched upgrading, but what is the difference between running 4.10s in 4th gear on the 5 speed Auto (1:1 trans gear ratio) vs 5th gear with 4.88s (overdrive with 0.83 ratio). 4.88*0.83=4.05, basically the same as 4.10. So for going up hills on the highway, don't I basically get the same thing as 4.88s by having the trans shift down to 4th (for free)?

I understand the initial get up and go in 1st can't be matched, but it seems higher speed uphill freeway driving is the top reason for wanting to regear. Offroad at least with the Rubi 4:1 TC, gears also seem not a big deal as the TC ratio is a much bigger factor than the axle ratio.
That's the point I was trying to make. My sport came with 3.21's so with 35" tires, it would only shift into 5th on flat ground between 45 and 60 MPH. Much faster and it would shift back to 4th.

Now that I regeared to 4.88's, my RPM's don't run any lower nor can I drive up grades any faster, I am just able to do it in a higher gear.

The biggest difference is in acceleration off the line.

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Old 07-09-2019, 02:15 AM   #19
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I just drove my manual 2013 JK Sport Mopar 2in lift with BFG KO2s and 4.56 gearing from Los Angeles to Jackson Hole and back. It ran the hills great...Utah is 80mph speed limit so I was running 5th at 3100RPM sometimes uphill to keep up with traffic....no probs at all...but these are not made for trailers.
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Old 07-09-2019, 02:45 AM   #20
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Honestly from 4.10 to 4.56 isn’t much of a change and probably throwing money away.
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Old 07-09-2019, 06:09 AM   #21
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Pardon my ignorance on gears, as I'm happy enough with my factory 4.10s to have not researched upgrading, but what is the difference between running 4.10s in 4th gear on the 5 speed Auto (1:1 trans gear ratio) vs 5th gear with 4.88s (overdrive with 0.83 ratio). 4.88*0.83=4.05, basically the same as 4.10. So for going up hills on the highway, don't I basically get the same thing as 4.88s by having the trans shift down to 4th (for free)?

I understand the initial get up and go in 1st can't be matched, but it seems higher speed uphill freeway driving is the top reason for wanting to regear. Offroad at least with the Rubi 4:1 TC, gears also seem not a big deal as the TC ratio is a much bigger factor than the axle ratio.
The difference is with 4.88 gears you get the extra power at the wheels in every gear, and each gear will be a little closer so the rpms will drop less on each shift so that the motor stays higher in its power producing rpm range.
If you only look at one gear and one speed, sure it can look likke you get the same effect. But who drives in one gear and one speed. The reality is we drive at a wide variety of speeds, we accelerate and decelerate. And we like to use all the gears we have. In fact, if you have a 5 speed auto you likely are short a gear or two and as such you really don't want to give away any gears, the more gears you can use the better it will work.
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Old 07-09-2019, 07:13 AM   #22
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Honestly from 4.10 to 4.56 isnít much of a change and probably throwing money away.
This. A million times this. If you already have 4.10s do not even consider regearing uless you're going to at least 4.88s. It's too much money IMO to only go one gear size, and you'll instantly regret not going lower (numerically higher).
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:22 AM   #23
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Pardon my ignorance on gears, as I'm happy enough with my factory 4.10s to have not researched upgrading, but what is the difference between running 4.10s in 4th gear on the 5 speed Auto (1:1 trans gear ratio) vs 5th gear with 4.88s (overdrive with 0.83 ratio). 4.88*0.83=4.05, basically the same as 4.10. So for going up hills on the highway, don't I basically get the same thing as 4.88s by having the trans shift down to 4th (for free)?

I understand the initial get up and go in 1st can't be matched, but it seems higher speed uphill freeway driving is the top reason for wanting to regear. Offroad at least with the Rubi 4:1 TC, gears also seem not a big deal as the TC ratio is a much bigger factor than the axle ratio.
One of the big differences you'll see is that the transmission will be able to make use of the lock up torque converter in 5th gear, while it can't use it in 4th gear.

When you don't use the lockup feature of the torque converter, you lose more power. You also add a lot of heat to the transmission. It won't blow up the transmission or anything but it does reduce its life span.

When you have the right gears for your tires you shift into overdrive and the torque converter locks up. You get better mileage and you decrease wear on the transmission. Plus you get all of the other benefits of having the gears matched to the tire size.
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Old 07-09-2019, 02:21 PM   #24
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The difference is with 4.88 gears you get the extra power at the wheels in every gear, and each gear will be a little closer so the rpms will drop less on each shift so that the motor stays higher in its power producing rpm range.
If you only look at one gear and one speed, sure it can look likke you get the same effect. But who drives in one gear and one speed. The reality is we drive at a wide variety of speeds, we accelerate and decelerate. And we like to use all the gears we have. In fact, if you have a 5 speed auto you likely are short a gear or two and as such you really don't want to give away any gears, the more gears you can use the better it will work.
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Old 07-09-2019, 02:32 PM
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Can people just post what rpm they are running at 70 mph with either 4.56 or 4.88 and 315/70r17 tires?
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Old 07-09-2019, 03:17 PM   #26
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4.56s at 70- ~ 2700. JK. Auto.
I get what you're looking for here (actual numbers) but FYI both the gear chart and the gear calculator are actually quite accurate. This isn't the first time the question has been asked. Keep in mind the difference between those two ratios is only a couple of hundred RPMs. And people's exact RPMs are going to vary a little...thereby the estimate on the chart is probably just as good as any.
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Old 07-09-2019, 03:36 PM   #27
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Can people just post what rpm they are running at 70 mph with either 4.56 or 4.88 and 315/70r17 tires?

3.8L or 3.6L?
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:07 AM   #28
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I have 3.73 and I think 4.10 would be perfect for 315s
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:54 AM   #29
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4.56s at 70- ~ 2700. JK. Auto.
I get what you're looking for here (actual numbers) but FYI both the gear chart and the gear calculator are actually quite accurate. This isn't the first time the question has been asked. Keep in mind the difference between those two ratios is only a couple of hundred RPMs. And people's exact RPMs are going to vary a little...thereby the estimate on the chart is probably just as good as any.
I agree, the chart is based on math. And math will be more accurate than peoples opinions about their rpms at 70. The only thing with the chart is to remember that a 315/70-17 is likely around 34" in diameter even though we call it a 35" tire. The chart is based on actual size, not advertised size.
And the difference in rpms at 70 mph is pretty small. The difference in performance will likely be bigger than the difference in rpms.
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:58 PM
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I have 3.73 and I think 4.10 would be perfect for 315s
4.10's suck with 35's.
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