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Old 12-15-2016, 07:36 PM   #31
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I think the truth is ESP/ESC has evolved over the lifetime of the JK, and it's apparent that the terminology and Owner's Manual descriptions have changed, as well.
My 2016 OM explanations of ESC, TSC, BLD, and others differ from XmentalX's.

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Old 12-15-2016, 08:54 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moojamboo View Post
I know I can to into 4hi, but out of curiosity for the sake of curiosity what does the traction control in rwd actualy DO?
Stop loss of control or traction by utilizing throttle, brakes, and sensors in tandem.

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Old 12-16-2016, 05:17 AM
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That is going to be wild to feel if I am giving her gas and it cuts out - interesting to experience.

This type of 4wd will be newish to me as my current winter daily is a wrx where you just "stomp it" and go.

While I know the 4hi will work, there is something about the seamlessness of the subaru model which I hope I don't miss. My wife and I have been going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth about the lsd option, I just don't know if it is needed. I wish I could enable the bld for rwd - but the tsc sounds like the bld.

I just hope in the end the tsc will work when I am going slow and steady in rwd, up my dead end road, to my driveway. That was the prompt for the entire post. I am not summiting everset, but in an ideal worked I would like to not have to stop, enable 4 hi daily from Halloween to Easter.

Would there be extra wear and tear the more you "use" and shift into 4 hi? Assuming not in it for long? I know they say you can shift into it at speed, but does THAT cause extra wear? Do you guys and girls fully stop when shifting to 4hi? Right or wrong, that is what I did with my YJ.
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Old 12-16-2016, 07:10 AM   #34
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4H is "shift on the fly". The JK does not have to be stopped. It's made to be used, use it when needed. There's basically no "extra" wear. If I didn't have a Rubicon I would have ordered limited slip. It's not required. The JK "part time" 4WD system is not the same experience as a Subaru, for example, so it requires driver input. I have a YJ and it was also shift on the fly into 4H. There was also no need to stop.
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Old 12-16-2016, 07:36 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moojamboo View Post
That is going to be wild to feel if I am giving her gas and it cuts out - interesting to experience.

This type of 4wd will be newish to me as my current winter daily is a wrx where you just "stomp it" and go.

While I know the 4hi will work, there is something about the seamlessness of the subaru model which I hope I don't miss. My wife and I have been going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth about the lsd option, I just don't know if it is needed. I wish I could enable the bld for rwd - but the tsc sounds like the bld.

I just hope in the end the tsc will work when I am going slow and steady in rwd, up my dead end road, to my driveway. That was the prompt for the entire post. I am not summiting everset, but in an ideal worked I would like to not have to stop, enable 4 hi daily from Halloween to Easter.

Would there be extra wear and tear the more you "use" and shift into 4 hi? Assuming not in it for long? I know they say you can shift into it at speed, but does THAT cause extra wear? Do you guys and girls fully stop when shifting to 4hi? Right or wrong, that is what I did with my YJ.
If you are ordering a Sport the easiest decision you can make is yes to LSD and yes to 3.73 gears, no brainer, really.
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Old 12-16-2016, 10:02 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzloonly View Post
I am quoting a section from my 2016 owner's manual. Page 491:

From page 485 onto 486:

A feature of the TCS, Brake Limited Differential
(BLD), functions similar to a limited slip differential
and controls the wheel spin across a driven axle. If
one wheel on a driven axle is spinning faster than the
other, the system will apply the brake of the spinning
wheel. This will allow more engine torque to be applied
to the wheel that is not spinning. BLD may remain
enabled even if TCS and ESC are in a reduced mode.
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Old 12-16-2016, 10:18 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moojamboo View Post
Would there be extra wear and tear the more you "use" and shift into 4 hi? Assuming not in it for long? I know they say you can shift into it at speed, but does THAT cause extra wear? Do you guys and girls fully stop when shifting to 4hi? Right or wrong, that is what I did with my YJ.
On the fly means moving, only advice I would give is try not to shift under load, that is where the wear would be the most. Light to no throttle pressure until the 4wd indicator stops flashing.
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Old 12-16-2016, 10:57 AM   #38
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I just lift off the throttle slightly and pull 'er back
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Old 12-16-2016, 11:18 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moojamboo View Post
That is going to be wild to feel if I am giving her gas and it cuts out - interesting to experience.

This type of 4wd will be newish to me as my current winter daily is a wrx where you just "stomp it" and go.

While I know the 4hi will work, there is something about the seamlessness of the subaru model which I hope I don't miss. My wife and I have been going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth about the lsd option, I just don't know if it is needed. I wish I could enable the bld for rwd - but the tsc sounds like the bld.

I just hope in the end the tsc will work when I am going slow and steady in rwd, up my dead end road, to my driveway. That was the prompt for the entire post. I am not summiting everset, but in an ideal worked I would like to not have to stop, enable 4 hi daily from Halloween to Easter.

Would there be extra wear and tear the more you "use" and shift into 4 hi? Assuming not in it for long? I know they say you can shift into it at speed, but does THAT cause extra wear? Do you guys and girls fully stop when shifting to 4hi? Right or wrong, that is what I did with my YJ.
Hey, Moojamboo, I would suggest you go to the Jeep web site and download an owners manual. Read (and re-read) the sections on TCS and ESC. It will tell you all about BLD, it does operate in 2H, contrary to what a popular youtube video tells us.

I demonstrated this last night. 2H, TCS off, one rear tire on ice the other on dry pavement. Punched it, the ice tire spun a little then the vehicle just takes off from the tire with traction. I repeated this several times. I know my old Landcruiser would of just sat there spinning one tire with its open diff.

I'd still get the LSD though, if I were you.
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Old 12-16-2016, 11:47 AM   #40
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Yes it works all the time.

Bld grabs a brake and transfers power to the not spinning wheel. It has a significant IMO delay. That delay can get you stuck. It is easy to lose momentum when you need it.

Tcs is basically going to reduce your throttle input to prevent traction loss. This works pretty good and can be turned off with the button on the console. On a snowy road you will give it gas and it will cut the throttle instantaneously to prevent you from losing the ass end. Works good.


ESP is the stability control. IT IS Absurdly intrusive and not defeatable except in 4 low automatically and supposedly by shutting it down in 4hi. In 4 hi it kicks right back on after a certain speed.

The ESP is garbage. If I take an on ramp and get some tire chirp I pretty much lose all effective braking mid corner until my wheel is straight. It applies the brake on the tire that lost traction trying to straighten the jeep out. It's loud kicks on all the time from a tiny skid and it jerks the jeep all-over when it kicks on. It's done this since new.

The system is not adjustable and cannot be turned off in 2wd.

It can cause you to lose momentum and jerk all-over in the sand and snow. As it constantly kicks on in anything but 4lo.

The only time it works is on a very very minor skid where the rear end steps out slightly. Then it will straighten you out.

To compare I could take a new Ford mustang 4 banger and hang the rear end out in a corner smoothly and the stability control will kick on only if it steps out excessively (in sport+ mode) you never hear the damn abs kicking on it doesn't freak out into panic mode it just helps you gently.

The Jeeps system is full psycho crazy when it kicks on. It's so bad on snowy roads that I slow down and run in 4 low....a lot just to keep from fighting it in deep snow following tracks.

Ridiculous. I am wiring in a switch to tie into the sensor in the console to disconnect it on startup. Supposedly that creates a "safe mode" where EPs is disabled until restart.


TL;DR if your driving miss Daisy the jeep electronics work. Doughnuts? Literally not possible....hang the ass end out in the snow or sand? Nope that's not safe can't do it.

They can fix this with different drive modes and a off-road only everything off mode. But they don't.
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Old 12-16-2016, 06:27 PM   #41
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ok it's just snowing right now and 2WD and ESC off. Gave her plenty of gas on the corner and brakes kicked in which arrested my dorifto hooliganism. I am guessing this is not BLD but stability control and as mentioned in some post above, it seems like you are unable to disable that. Not that it's an issue at all. I am not a fan of TCS as it kills engine too agressively, i like to use my right foot for that.
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Old 07-12-2017, 02:02 PM   #42
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So, my build sheet lists Command-Trac, and I know I just have the sport model.

I guess I'm a little confused as to whether or not power would shift in 2wd from slipping wheel to good traction wheel.
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Old 07-12-2017, 02:26 PM   #43
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As posted previously,
Traction Control System (TCS)
This system monitors the amount of wheel spin of each of
the driven wheels. If wheel spin is detected, brake
pressure is applied to the slipping wheel(s) to provide
enhanced acceleration and stability. A feature of the TCS
system functions similar to a limited slip differential and
controls the wheel spin across a driven axle. If one wheel
on a driven axle is spinning faster than the other, the
system will apply the brake of the spinning wheel. This
will allow more engine torque to be applied to the wheel
that is not spinning. This feature remains active even if
TCS and ESP are in either the “Partial Off” or “Full Off”
modes.

What it says is that the TCS system would apply the brakes on the wheel that spinning is detected. With an open differential that will shift torque over to the non spinning wheel.
You cannot easily turn it off. Even if you turn TCS off, this function is still enabled as far as I know.
When you shift to 4H or 4L it automatically turns TCS off except for this aspect of TCS, which Jeep calls BLD.

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