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Old 12-14-2016, 11:16 AM
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BLD work in 2WD (RWD) only?

Hi guys,

Have a '17 JK on order, still a month out. Trying to figure out specifically how she will work.

Title says it all, will the BLD work in RWD? I didn't get the LSD. I am hoping I won't have to shift into 4hi in order to enable it?

Read a couple of posts that seemed to disagree with each other, looking for some definitive info.

Thank you.

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Old 12-14-2016, 02:20 PM   #2
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My understanding is that it only works in 4wd. Traction Control, Electronic Stability Control and Roll Mitigation work in 2wd and 4hi.

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Old 12-15-2016, 05:00 AM
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I have to plead ignorance here, and the brouchers from jeep just have snowey peaks and rivers. Can you (or anyone) clarify?

Let's assume BLD only works in 4hi / 4lo - which would be too bad. I don't really see why it couldn't work in rwd other than Jeep wants us to get the Rubicon for lockers, or the LSD option.

I know either traction control or stability control handles throttle input in addition to the breaking when the jeep starts moving faster and faster. Which one is it?

Assuming the braking and throttle input is one of them, what does the "other" do?

Not trying to be lazy, I even read a cryptic article from Chryslar/Fiat/Jeep and it danced around the issue without specifics.

I hate walking into a dealer and looking like a moron. I would like to have a working vocab so when I pick her up I can ask poingent questions.

Thanks for your help.
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Old 12-15-2016, 07:03 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moojamboo View Post



I hate looking like a moron.
Sorry for misquoting you, but it's the way I feel right now.

What is BLD? I'm feeling pretty stupid at this point.

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Old 12-15-2016, 07:18 AM
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BLD - brake lock differential. If one wheel (left to right) spins faster than the other the computer brain in the car will apply the brake on the spinning side. This causes the open differential to move power to the wheel with grip. Seems like a great alternative to a locking diff when you aren't using it consistently.

It would be great if it worked in 2wd(rwd). I have a longish, steepish driveway in VT that is covered in snow often. I currently have a WRX that just handles it. I would like to be able to make it up in 2wd(rwd) with the BLD doing its thing if it ever gets slippery, compared to having to shift into 4hi. Isn't the end of the world if I DO have to, really just interested.

Loved the WRX, and I babied it, but it rusted out under me. 108,000 miles of being babied didn't matter, the 15 Vermont winters did.
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Old 12-15-2016, 07:41 AM   #6
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Here's a very good thread on what exactly BLD is and how it works, and yes it works only in 4wd hi and lo.
https://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/br...ed-803194.html
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Old 12-15-2016, 11:52 AM   #7
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I am quoting a section from my 2016 owner's manual. Page 491:


"2H Range (4WD Models) Or 2WD Models
ESC On
This is the normal operating mode for ESC in 2H range
and on 2WD vehicles.
ESC Partial Off
When in
ESC Partial Off mode, the TCS portion of ESC(except for the limited slip feature described in the TCS section),
has been disabled and the ESC Off Indicator Light will be illuminated.
This mode is intended to be used if the vehicle is in deep

snow, sand, or gravel conditions and more wheel spin
than ESC would normally allow is required to gain
traction. To turn ESC on again, momentarily push the
ESC OFF switch. This will restore the normal
ESC On mode of operation."

The way I read this the BLD component of the ESC operates ALL the time, including a 2WD and in 2H.

From page 492:

" 4L Range (4WD Models)
ESC Full Off
This is the normal operating mode for ESC in 4L range.
Whenever the vehicle is started in 4L range, or the transfer
case (if equipped) is shifted from 4H range or NEUTRAL to
4L range, the ESC system will be in this mode. In 4L range,
ESC and TCS, except for the Brake Limited Differential
(BLD) feature described in the TCS section, are turned off
until the vehicle reaches an approximate speed of 40 mph
(64 km/h). For speeds at or exceeding approximately
40 mph (64 km/h) the ESC goes into
ESC Partial Off

When the vehicle speed drops below 35 mph (56 km/h),
the ESC system goes back to
ESC Full Off. The ESC is in

ESC Full Off at low vehicle speeds in 4L range so that it
will not interfere with off-road driving, but the ESC function

returns to provide the stability feature at speeds above
40 mph (64 km/h). The “ESC OFF Indicator Light” will
always be illuminated in 4L range when ESC is in
ESC Full Off or ESC Partial Off.
"

Even when it is Full Off the BLD component remains active.

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Old 12-15-2016, 01:00 PM   #8
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I was under the impression that BLD was one of the reasons why our rear brakes wear quicker than our front brakes. Due to this, I assumed it worked in 2wd.
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Old 12-15-2016, 01:31 PM   #9
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BLD is only enabled in 4WD. Traction Control operates in 2WD, which is also part of ESC. Electronic Stability Program (ESP) in earlier model JK's is the same. ESC/ESP enhances directional control & stability by applying brake pressure to counteract over/under steer. Also involved with Electronic Stability is the Brake Assist System which enhances ABS in extreme braking. Electronic Stability, rear brake pad design and to a very minor extent Hill Start Assist, coupled with an up to approx. 3% rear bias that I've seen listed, all play a part in the rear pads wearing faster.
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Old 12-15-2016, 02:25 PM
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@kik (and anyone else) - with your statement of "Traction Control operates in 2WD" - what does that actually mean? Assuming the BLD is only for 4 high - what else is there? What does "tractional control" do? You write that it applies brakes to counteract over / understeer - does the ECU have some sort of yaw sensor built in?

The BLD one-wheel-spinning-sensor seems pretty straight forward, I just would like to know what 2wd drive behaviors are going on.
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Old 12-15-2016, 02:34 PM   #11
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Here is an article from FCA.

At one point in the article it specifically says, "To understand what BLD does, it is necessary to understand how and open differential works. Open differentials have many attributes that make them the best choice for most vehicles. They are simple, proven and reliable requiring only an occasional fluid change to last for many years.

For rear wheel drive vehicles, they also provide a stability advantage over locking differentials (such as a Detroit Locker) that are always engaged."

BLD is always on, it cannot be turned off, in 2wd or 4wd, is how I see this.
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Old 12-15-2016, 02:47 PM   #12
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Try this on snow. Turn ECS off in 2WD. Get the rear to step out on corners and wait for the BLD to kick in. It feels like ABS kicking in. I haven't tried this yet but another exercise you can do is putting one side on ice. I imagine BLD will kick-in here.
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Old 12-15-2016, 03:44 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Moojamboo View Post
@kik (and anyone else) - with your statement of "Traction Control operates in 2WD" - what does that actually mean? Assuming the BLD is only for 4 high - what else is there? What does "tractional control" do? You write that it applies brakes to counteract over / understeer - does the ECU have some sort of yaw sensor built in?

The BLD one-wheel-spinning-sensor seems pretty straight forward, I just would like to know what 2wd drive behaviors are going on.
Traction Control almost acts like having a limited slip differential, but it doesn't replace actually having LSD. One of the primary functions for ESC is for "stability". ESC will activate braking in order to try and keep a driver on the road in a severe maneuver situation. There's really nothing more involved. This is according to Chrysler engineers when describing BLD, it is only enabled when in 4WD. There are some owners that have confused BLD with Traction Control. They are not the same, although they are part of the same system which is categorized under the "umbrella" of ESC/ESP. The BLD system attempts to simulate lockers, but it doesn't replace having actual lockers, just like Traction Control doesn't replace having LSD. There's additional info. here: http://www.jeep.com/en/4x4/#ActiveDr...ck1*RockTrack* Click on How the Rock Trac system works. Even though it addresses Rubicons, it still explains the system.
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Old 12-15-2016, 03:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzloonly View Post
I am quoting a section from my 2016 owner's manual. Page 491:


"2H Range (4WD Models) Or 2WD Models
ESC On
This is the normal operating mode for ESC in 2H range
and on 2WD vehicles.
ESC Partial Off
When in
ESC Partial Offmode, the TCS portion of ESC(except for the limited slip feature described in the TCS section),


My 2014 manual reads the same way. Rear brake pad wear?... Could it be that every corner we go around on the street in 2H, the outside brake is applied because that wheel is turning faster? I find this subject very interesting.

I have to disagree with Kik, I think BLD is trying to mimic a limited slip diff, not a locker, and traction control just kills power when wheels slip and is good for nothing. Been snowing here lately, so I know how poorly the TC performs. Turn that off or you go nowhere fast.
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Old 12-15-2016, 04:20 PM   #15
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My 2014 manual reads the same way. Rear brake pad wear?... Could it be that every corner we go around on the street in 2H, the outside brake is applied because that wheel is turning faster? I find this subject very interesting.

I have to disagree with Kik, I think BLD is trying to mimic a limited slip diff, not a locker, and traction control just kills power when wheels slip and is good for nothing. Been snowing here lately, so I know how poorly the TC performs. Turn that off or you go nowhere fast.
You're not disagreeing with me, I'm providing information provided by Chrysler engineering. Traction Control = similar to limited slip and BLD = similar to lockers. Please review the video. Traction control uses the brakes and engine torque control to limit how fast the driven wheels can spin relative to the actual speed of the vehicle. It's not activated in a normal driving situation.
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Old 12-15-2016, 04:28 PM   #16
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You're not disagreeing with me
I am disagreeing with one of your previous assertions. The OP was asking if it worked in 2WD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kik
BLD is only enabled in 4WD.
This statement is not proving true. It is always enabled. Perhaps it is less apparent in 4wd or with lockers etc, but it is still enabled.
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Old 12-15-2016, 04:39 PM   #17
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Try this on snow. Turn ECS off in 2WD. Get the rear to step out on corners and wait for the BLD to kick in. It feels like ABS kicking in. I haven't tried this yet but another exercise you can do is putting one side on ice. I imagine BLD will kick-in here.
it doesnt kick in, my old 4dr 3.21 open diff with the tcs off would just spin 1 wheel endlessly on rainy days during some "testing"
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Old 12-15-2016, 04:48 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Grizzloonly View Post
I am disagreeing with one of your previous assertions. The OP was asking if it worked in 2WD.



This statement is not proving true. It is always enabled. Perhaps it is less apparent in 4wd or with lockers etc, but it is still enabled.
Please review the video link. BLD is enabled only in 4L and 4H, to give a non Rubicon JK some type of additional traction similar to having lockers. BLD is "part" of the overall Traction Control system. This has been discussed a number of times over the years. The video link explains the function, even to the extent of when a Rubicon locker is enabled BLD is disabled, but continues to be enabled on the axle where a locker isn't engaged. The reason why it's disabled on the locked axle is because BLD serves no purpose when an axle is locked. It is totally disabled on a locked axle. Traction Control is always enabled unless it's partially off or off. Please don't confuse the two systems. Also review the wrangler forum link for BLD for additional information.
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Old 12-15-2016, 04:48 PM   #19
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You're right kik, my bad. Ah yes, Chrysler engineers...I do have my disagreements with them, on more subjects than I would like. I think they are a little cornfused much of the time.
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Old 12-15-2016, 04:51 PM   #20
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You're right kik, my bad. Ah yes, Chrysler engineers...I do have my disagreements with them, on more subjects than I would like. I think they are a little cornfused much of the time.
Yes they are.
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Old 12-15-2016, 05:26 PM   #21
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Please review the video link. BLD is enabled only in 4L and 4H, to give a non Rubicon JK some type of additional traction similar to having lockers. BLD is "part" of the overall Traction Control system. This has been discussed a number of times over the years. The video link explains the function, even to the extent of when a Rubicon locker is enabled BLD is disabled, but continues to be enabled on the axle where a locker isn't engaged. The reason why it's disabled on the locked axle is because BLD serves no purpose when an axle is locked. It is totally disabled on a locked axle. Traction Control is always enabled unless it's partially off or off. Please don't confuse the two systems. Also review the wrangler forum link for BLD for additional information.
Indeed it is only in 4h and 4l. I am not sure that is good or bad, but since I have LSD in the rear I have the best of both, with the exception of lockers of course. You are correct and my apologies. I have seen that video in the past and now it is even more clear to me.
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Old 12-15-2016, 05:35 PM
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So the consensus seems that the BLD only works in 4hi. Ok.

Now can someone tell me or point me to some documentation that explains how the traction control works in 2wd? Or in 2wd is it open differential, that's it?

Interesting reading so far.
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Old 12-15-2016, 05:48 PM   #23
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So the consensus seems that the BLD only works in 4hi. Ok.

Now can someone tell me or point me to some documentation that explains how the traction control works in 2wd? Or in 2wd is it open differential, that's it?

Interesting reading so far.
ELECTRONIC BRAKE CONTROL SYSTEM
Your vehicle is equipped with an advanced electronic
brake control system that includes Anti-Lock Brake System
(ABS), Traction Control System (TCS), Brake Assist
System (BAS), Hill Start Assist (HSA), Electronic Roll
Mitigation (ERM), Electronic Stability Program (ESP) and
Trailer Sway Control (TSC). All of these systems work
together to enhance vehicle stability and control in various
driving conditions, and are commonly referred to as
ESP.

Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS)
This system aids the driver in maintaining vehicle control
under adverse braking conditions. The system controls
hydraulic brake pressure to prevent wheel lock-up and
help avoid skidding on slippery surfaces during braking.
Refer to “Anti-Lock Brake System” in Section 5 of this
manual for more information about ABS.

Traction Control System (TCS)
This system monitors the amount of wheel spin of each of
the driven wheels. If wheel spin is detected, brake
pressure is applied to the slipping wheel(s) to provide
enhanced acceleration and stability. A feature of the TCS
system functions similar to a limited slip differential and
controls the wheel spin across a driven axle. If one wheel
on a driven axle is spinning faster than the other, the
system will apply the brake of the spinning wheel. This
will allow more engine torque to be applied to the wheel
that is not spinning. This feature remains active even if
TCS and ESP are in either the “Partial Off” or “Full Off”
modes. Refer to “ESP (Electronic Stability Program)” in
this section.

Brake Assist System (BAS)
The BAS is designed to optimize the vehicle’s braking
capability during emergency braking maneuvers. The
system detects an emergency braking situation by sensing
the rate and amount of brake application and then
applies optimum pressure to the brakes. This can help
reduce braking distances. The BAS complements the
anti-lock brake system (ABS). Applying the brakes very
quickly results in the best BAS assistance. To receive the
benefit of the system, you must apply continuous braking
pressure during the stopping sequence. Do not
reduce brake pedal pressure unless braking is no longer
desired. Once the brake pedal is released, the BAS is
deactivated.

Hill Start Assist (HSA)
The HSA system is designed to assist the driver when
starting a vehicle from a stop on a hill. HSA will maintain
the level of brake pressure the driver applied for a short
period of time after the driver takes their foot off of the
brake pedal. If the driver does not apply the throttle
during this short period of time, the system will release
brake pressure and the vehicle will roll down the hill. The
system will release brake pressure in proportion to
amount of throttle applied as the vehicle starts to move in
the intended direction of travel.

Electronic Roll Mitigation (ERM)
This system anticipates the potential for wheel lift by
monitoring the driver’s steering wheel input and the
speed of the vehicle. When ERM determines that the rate
of change of the steering wheel angle and vehicle’s speed
are sufficient to potentially cause wheel lift, it applies the
appropriate brake and may reduce engine power to
lessen the chance that wheel lift will occur. ERM will only
intervene during very severe or evasive driving maneuvers.

Electronic Stability Program (ESP)
This system enhances directional control and stability of
the vehicle under various driving conditions. The ESP
corrects for over/under steering of the vehicle by applying
the brake of the appropriate wheel to assist in
counteracting the over/under steer condition. Engine
power may also be reduced to help the vehicle maintain
the desired path.


The difference between the TCS and BLD noting the above is essentially BLD will continue to function in 4hi with TCS disabled. When in 2hi TCS for the most part operates similar to BLD but also in tandem with the various other stability systems.

Theres also: https://blog.fcanorthamerica.com/200...rol-explained/

essentially TCS uses the brakes for overall traction the BLD uses it to transfer torque ignoring traction
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Old 12-15-2016, 06:00 PM
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@XmentalX and others - Ok this may be the sub zero temperatures of Vermont getting to my brain here but....

The 2wd TCS sounds awfully similar to the 4wd BLD. Like the same thing.

TCS (rwd / 2wd): "If wheel spin is detected, brake pressure is applied to the slipping wheel(s) to provide enhanced acceleration and stability."

BLD (4 hi + low)(from the article you posted): "BLD does not care how fast the wheels are turning, just that they are turning at the same speed. It provides improved traction capability similar to a locking differential."

Other than "branding"...is there in action differences other than the 2 axl's vs. 1 axl? I just don't see a difference?

I guess I don't understand your last sentence "essentially TCS uses the brakes for overall traction the BLD uses it to transfer torque ignoring traction ". I thought BLD used the abs system?
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Old 12-15-2016, 06:28 PM   #25
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I think you're right, TC and BLD are sort of the same, but, TC does not allow tire spin, BLD does. I'm a little in over my head on this, but my recent snow experience showed me TC sensed tire spin and killed it with both brake and engine retard...so both rears were moving me, but really slowly. I didn't like that. I could have the pedal to the metal and, nothing...

It's interesting that the owners manual and the video are at odds with each other... which one to believe... I need to real world test a little more.
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Old 12-15-2016, 06:34 PM   #26
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@XmentalX and others - Ok this may be the sub zero temperatures of Vermont getting to my brain here but....

The 2wd TCS sounds awfully similar to the 4wd BLD. Like the same thing.

TCS (rwd / 2wd): "If wheel spin is detected, brake pressure is applied to the slipping wheel(s) to provide enhanced acceleration and stability."

BLD (4 hi + low)(from the article you posted): "BLD does not care how fast the wheels are turning, just that they are turning at the same speed. It provides improved traction capability similar to a locking differential."

Other than "branding"...is there in action differences other than the 2 axl's vs. 1 axl? I just don't see a difference?

I guess I don't understand your last sentence "essentially TCS uses the brakes for overall traction the BLD uses it to transfer torque ignoring traction ". I thought BLD used the abs system?
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Originally Posted by BradC View Post
I think you're right, TC and BLD are sort of the same, but, TC does not allow tire spin, BLD does. I'm a little in over my head on this, but my recent snow experience showed me TC sensed tire spin and killed it with both brake and engine retard...so both rears were moving me, but really slowly. I didn't like that. I could have the pedal to the metal and, nothing...

It's interesting that the owners manual and the video are at odds with each other... which one to believe... I need to real world test a little more.
Essentially the S in TCS says it all its a System using multiple features at once. BLD just uses the brakes to shift torque.
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Old 12-15-2016, 06:51 PM   #27
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Indeed it is only in 4h and 4l. I am not sure that is good or bad, but since I have LSD in the rear I have the best of both, with the exception of lockers of course. You are correct and my apologies. I have seen that video in the past and now it is even more clear to me.
There's nothing to apologize for. You're trying to understand an often confusing system with like characteristics. Hopefully, I was able to either explain it or point you in the right direction to get the answers you requested. I discovered a long time ago that with owning a JK there's usually a learning curve. Good luck.
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Old 12-15-2016, 06:58 PM
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So we are talking about the traction control being a system, and not just the ABS as the bld is.

If I am driving my stick shift (to be delivered in a couple weeks), and in rwd, and I hit my snowy driveway and it the tsc kicks in due to one wheel spinning - is it also going to artificially pull rpm's from the engine? Override my foot's throttle position to drop rpm's down and regain traction?

It can't dink around with the clutch can it? That seems more physical. Throttle could be adjusted I guess?
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Old 12-15-2016, 07:04 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Moojamboo View Post
So we are talking about the traction control being a system, and not just the ABS as the bld is.

If I am driving my stick shift (to be delivered in a couple weeks), and in rwd, and I hit my snowy driveway and it the tsc kicks in due to one wheel spinning - is it also going to artificially pull rpm's from the engine? Override my foot's throttle position to drop rpm's down and regain traction?

It can't dink around with the clutch can it? That seems more physical. Throttle could be adjusted I guess?
There are many variables. The clutch isn't affected. Basically, if you're unable to gain traction you can easily shift on the fly into 4H which will take care of it.
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Old 12-15-2016, 07:11 PM
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Underhill, Vermont
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I know I can to into 4hi, but out of curiosity for the sake of curiosity what does the traction control in rwd actualy DO?

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